How to deal with persone who is uploading and selling mesh models from google warehouse?

[Min Barzane]

Recently i have noticed one persone started to sell on marketplace ( probbably inworld to) car models that are downloaded from Google warehouse and this is not wild guess but prooven fact! Models are same to last poligon!Didnt ewen bother to modify them and optimise for SL! Download from Warehouse--->upload to SL--->sell=0 effort theft

I will not post Warehouse or MP links due to LL TOS nor will i name persone in question...

I would just like to know how to deal with such persone? Can't file DMCA because i am not IP rights holder of those models,ARs are useless for same reason,contacting IP holders on Warehouse is close to useless because they don't respond to massages or posts on models themselves...

That persone is well known for theft,cheating ppl,lies and many other things,has to manny ARs on his head to count (not only from me but many other creators and customers he conned) and LL still lets him do his "business"!

What to do? Sit down and ignore him & do nothing? Because ewerything this done to put a stop on his theft is futile so far!!!

Any sugestions?

[Nova Convair]

Very simple. Your are not the IP rights owner so it's not your business.

You can tell the IP holder about it then they can decide what to do. If they decide to ignore this then it's still not your business. :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

[Min Barzane]

It is my buisness becouse that persone and likes of him are ruining my legitimate buisness ( and not only myne )!

I spend days (in some cases weeks ) creating models from scratch!

 

[Monti Messmer]

Welcome to a merchants life. Be better newer special keep ahead of the common crowd. If you do a good product there´s always only weeks till someone jumps on the wagon and copy it. Legitimate or not.

As said, email the rights-holder and tell them - end of

Monti

[Sassy Romano]

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Min Barzane wrote:

It is my buisness becouse that persone and likes of him are ruining my legitimate buisness ( and not only myne )!

I spend days (in some cases weeks ) creating models from scratch!

 

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Same argument could be said for those who buy a template and then just texture it and sell their creation for a very low price.  How do you report those when they've done nothing technically wrong?

[Masami Kuramoto]

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Min Barzane wrote:

contacting IP holders on Warehouse is close to useless

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"close to useless"

Sounds like you didn't even try.

Afraid of competition?

[Deja Letov]

Nothing you can do. You aren't the IP holder. You can try to contact the original creator, I did that once and they didn't care. So nothing may come of it. But other than that, there isn't anything you can do about it.

[Min Barzane]

Buying templates in SL and than texturing is legal!

Dowloading models from Google warehouse ( or anny other 3d model website ) and than uploading to SL and selling them is NOT!!!

 

All 3D model websites (Google Warehouse,renderocity,DAZ ect) have strict TOS regarding such matters!

LL has strict TOS regarding such matters!!! If you took mesh quiz to activate mesh upload ability you would know that if you didnt make it you cant upload mesh/sell it! Atleast not legaly!!!

So does this guy do something ilegal or he  to quote you Sassy "did nothing technically wrong"?

It is more question of moral , hard work & skill to make something unique rather than taking someone elses hard work and selling it as your own and be lazy & greedy as this guy is!

And i did notify IP holders about each and ewery one of models he is selling ilegaly!!! Here quiestion is will they do anyhting about it?

My question originaly was is there annything else that can be done becides telling IP holders about theif  and wait to see will they ( and LL ) do annyhting about it???

[Min Barzane]

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Masami Kuramoto wrote:

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Min Barzane wrote:

contacting IP holders on Warehouse is close to useless

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"close to useless"

Sounds like you didn't even try.

Afraid of competition?

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No i am not  afraid of competition,more original creators the better!

Theifs like this guy aint competition,they are just greedy BS artists,lazy and to dumb to care about is what they do legal or not!All he cares about is $,fast and as much as possible with minimum effort!

Real competition,tru creators,original ones,they don't damage my buisness,they just make me make better creations!

[Ry0ta Exonar]

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Min Barzane wrote:

And i did notify IP holders about each and ewery one of models he is selling ilegaly!!! Here quiestion is will they do anyhting about it?

My question originaly was is there annything else that can be done becides telling IP holders about theif  and wait to see will they ( and LL ) do annyhting about it???

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Then you did the right thing. If they care, they may file a DMCA notification. Did you include this link : https://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php when you notified IP owners? And even if they care, they may not file a DMCA notification for various reason such as: they don't want to give their personal information, They've never heard of secondlife, and they have no idea what linden dollar is and how it works, so they can't be serious, etc.

[Sassy Romano]

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Min Barzane wrote:

Buying templates in SL and than texturing is legal!

Dowloading models from Google warehouse ( or anny other 3d model website ) and than uploading to SL and selling them is NOT!!!

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So let me ask you this, if someone obtains the rights to a far better model than those you create and uploads it, does that not impact your business?

It's that part that i'm referring to, not whether it's legal or not.  The claim you stated was that someone uploading a model that's better than yours is ruining your business.  ANY product better than your or that gets bought instead of yours can be argued as doing the same.

I agree that it's not legal but that in itself is not the ruination of someones business.

[Deja Letov]

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Min Barzane wrote:

Buying templates in SL and than texturing is legal!

Dowloading models from Google warehouse ( or anny other 3d model website ) and than uploading to SL and selling them is NOT!!!

 

All 3D model websites (Google Warehouse,renderocity,DAZ ect) have strict TOS regarding such matters!

LL has strict TOS regarding such matters!!! If you took mesh quiz to activate mesh upload ability you would know that if you didnt make it you cant upload mesh/sell it! Atleast not legaly!!!

So does this guy do something ilegal or he  to quote you Sassy "did nothing technically wrong"?

It is more question of moral , hard work & skill to make something unique rather than taking someone elses hard work and selling it as your own and be lazy & greedy as this guy is!

And i did notify IP holders about each and ewery one of models he is selling ilegaly!!! Here quiestion is will they do anyhting about it?

My question originaly was is there annything else that can be done becides telling IP holders about theif  and wait to see will they ( and LL ) do annyhting about it???

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Not really much else you can do except maybe try to spread the word around what this guy is doing. No you can't spout of the name in this forum but it wouldn't be all THAT hard to let people know who it is. For example, you could share a search term for something that his product may come up with. That's what I did when I found the guy selling textures that he clearly did not create himself. And I can tell you, I contacted several of the creators of the textures he was ripping and not a single one of them did anything. One actually wrote on her Deviantart page in her profile that she is aware of the guy on SL ripping her textures but she has no desire to pursue legal action because of the high legal fees and she didn't wish to be bothered with it so please quit contacting her about it. I'm not even kidding. Just didn't care. but unfortunately, other than trying to let others know of who it is that's doing it, there isn't a whole lot more to be done sice you aren't the one being victimized.

[Sassy Romano]

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Min Barzane wrote:

So does this guy do something ilegal or he  to quote you Sassy "did nothing technically wrong"?

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That's a mis-quote by the way.  I was referring to those buying full perm and just adding a texture and selling @ very low prices as doing nothing technically wrong.  Arguments about how it affects overall pricing is a different matter.

[Min Barzane]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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Min Barzane wrote:

Buying templates in SL and than texturing is legal!

Dowloading models from Google warehouse ( or anny other 3d model website ) and than uploading to SL and selling them is NOT!!!

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So let me ask you this, if someone obtains the rights to a far better model than those you create and uploads it, does that not impact your business?

It's that part that i'm referring to, not whether it's legal or not.  The claim you stated was that someone uploading a model that's better than yours is ruining your business.  ANY product better than your or that gets bought instead of yours can be argued as doing the same.

I agree that it's not legal but that in itself is not the ruination of someones business.

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Read again Sassy,i newer stated that models this guy is ilegaly uploading are better than myne,they are not ( not bragging) and myne are cheaper to. I am refering to legality of models he sells! Not quality!!!!

But to compare his quality and myne...

-his... model (not realy his,just uploaded model from Warehouse,0 modification/optimisation of mesh) is 500 PE (prim equivalent) ,blocky, crappy LOD...hell to script,lag hog,not 1 unwraped texture

-myne....model of same car....18 PE,smooth as babies bottom,high detail,high LOD (it wont melt when you zoom out),ewery part has unwrapped and baked shaddowmap texture,easy to script,low lag and server waight

I woldnt mind if he used warehouse models as base to create his models or he optimises it (takes great deal of work to) but what this guy does is just download from warehouse and upload to SL,0 effort!

In anny case what he does is NOT legal!!! It is NOT moral!!!! It damages buisness for ewery legitimate car and bike creator,for ewery mesh creator in general. Why? Becouse if one moron like he slides under radar and continues conning ppl more will come like him! 0 effort-easy money-lazy ass-greedy BS artists!!!

[Sassy Romano]

I read just fine.

You said:-

"It is my buisness becouse that persone and likes of him are ruining my legitimate buisness ( and not only myne )!

I spend days (in some cases weeks ) creating models from scratch!"

But your models are better optimised, cheaper so how is he ruining your business?

I don't disagree with anything about the legality or morals, just curious how such an inferior product is ruining your business any more than, as i've already said, other full perm products which need maybe just texturing and then sold at a fraction of the cost of yours?

[Min Barzane]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

I read just fine.

You said:-

"It is my buisness becouse that persone and likes of him are ruining my legitimate buisness ( and not only myne )!

I spend days (in some cases weeks ) creating models from scratch!"

But your models are better optimised, cheaper so how is he ruining your business?

I don't disagree with anything about the legality or morals, just curious how such an inferior product is ruining your business any more than, as i've already said, other full perm products which need maybe just texturing and then sold at a fraction of the cost of yours?

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I my country we have a saying... 2 theifs will always do better than 1 honest working man!

Ilegal "products" will always ruin  legal buisness and orignal contents!

I make and sell creators kits,full perm parts,sculpts and mesh alike. They are not ment to be resold as is,modification is needed,in most cases  only texture vise is needed ! Also they cant be sold with full perms,have to be atleast no transfer for end customer! + most of my kits are used and sold as finished item,scripted,textured,aimated ect for more money than i sell them for!

I repeat,its not question of ammount of L$  ilegal content is sold for! Its not matter of quality! It IS matter of legality and moral of persone who sells it!!!And ho to put a stop on him!

 

 

Queston was :

"What to do? Sit down and ignore him & do nothing? Because ewerything this done to put a stop on his theft is futile so far!!!

Any sugestions?"

[Sassy Romano]

I feel like a dog with a bone here but nobody will disagree about the legality, however, in terms of business impact, this is no different than selling against freebies, dollarbies and other items where no effort has been put in but makes more money than the original creator.

I don't see why or how that ruins your business?  The only way I see that happening is by selling own items as full perm as builder kits and then watching others sell the creation for more when they've added something.

Maybe i'm just pushing too hard on a point that you made?

What to do?  Notify the original IP rights holder as it's up to them to report it if they wish.  They may not care in which case that's just tough, move along, nothing to see, carry on competing with all that's out there.

[Pamela Galli]

This was the inevitable outcome easily seen from day one -- LL knew there would be an unstoppable flood of mesh not created by but uploaded by both users and non-users. 

That's the direction LL wants SL to take, so not much we can do about it.

[Min Barzane]

So basicly bottom point is that nothing but notify IP holders and wait can be done...

Telling eweryone i  know about him would be spreading deformatory content ( against TOS )

Posting links to his MP stuff big nono ( against TOS)

Posting 3rd party website links again no can do ( TOS again )

Like LL protects theifs any way they can...they get L$ revenue same from ilegal and legal content sales on MP...

/me sighs

Eh well....

[Josh Susanto]

I understand that it's almost certain that the models we're talking about are illegal.

But "almost certain" also means there's at least some remote possibility that they are actually authorized; in fact, you effectively have to assume that they are authorized, at least in terms of how you may compete with them until you've conclusively determined that they can be shown to violate IP rights, and by you.

Telling anyone that any specific item is an IP violation is a bit of a risky thing to do, because, even if you're right 99% of the time, that other 1% can really come back at you in some very unpleasant ways.

I support your right to complain to IP holder and wait for that entity to do something about it.

But in the meantime, this whole system is legally configured such that you need to understand when you participate in it, your best recourse against such competition is simply to provide something either of greater value to customers, to provide something at a lower price, or both.

[Pamela Galli]

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Min Barzane wrote:

So basicly bottom point is that nothing but notify IP holders and wait can be done...

Telling eweryone i  know about him would be spreading deformatory content ( against TOS )

Posting links to his MP stuff big nono ( against TOS)

Posting 3rd party website links again no can do ( TOS again )

Like LL protects theifs any way they can...they get L$ revenue same from ilegal and legal content sales on MP...

/me sighs

Eh well....

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LL has no jurisdiction over 3rd party websites. :-)  

[Pamela Galli]

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Josh Susanto wrote:

 

But in the meantime, this whole system is legally configured such that you need to understand when you participate in it, your best recourse against such competition is simply to provide something either of greater value to customers, to provide something at a lower price, or both.

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I understand this is the standard advice. But I know I could import and optimize mesh I find on the internet a whole lot faster than I can make things from scratch, which for me is an extremely time consuming thing.  The fact is that content creators are at a big disadvantage compared to content uploaders.

 

That's just the way it is. In the future you will see more importing and less creating.

[Deja Letov]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

I feel like a dog with a bone here but nobody will disagree about the legality, however, in terms of business impact, this is no different than selling against freebies, dollarbies and other items where no effort has been put in but makes more money than the original creator.

I don't see why or how that ruins your business?  The only way I see that happening is by selling own items as full perm as builder kits and then watching others sell the creation for more when they've added something.

Maybe i'm just pushing too hard on a point that you made?

What to do?  Notify the original IP rights holder as it's up to them to report it if they wish.  They may not care in which case that's just tough, move along, nothing to see, carry on competing with all that's out there.

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I agree with you, I was just letting you do the talking cause you were doing so well  

[Sassy Romano]

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Deja Letov wrote:

I agree with you, I was just letting you do the talking cause you were doing so well  

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Thanks for that!  *spanks*

[Vegro Solari]

Pamela, how about the old motto "Always Outnumbered, Never Outgunned"? Why shouldn't it apply to your SL creations too? No matter how many high quality models are uploaded and exploited by guys that didn't make them, only you have the ability to create stuff that is original, never-before-seen, and can't be downloaded from mesh libraries.

If a person is offended that there are sneaks making a lot more money than them, with far less effort, then the SecondLife version of this "effect" is paltry compared to what banking cartels etc. do in first life!  You'll never get any good sleep if you worry about such things!