Luna Bliss

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-03-04/why-so-many-epidemics-originate-in-asia-and-africa

Ivermectin has been debunked by reputable studies, and therapeutic treatments are being developed along with vaccines. There's no need to create an 'either-or' dilemma. https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/21/executive-order-improving-and-expanding-access-to-care-and-treatments-for-covid-19/ https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52354520

I think it's a possibility too...as a matter of fact, I think it's the most logical possibility. However, the most brilliant brains will tell you we are all victims of a careless society. If one wants to be an ostrich, one wants to be an ostrich. It's the most logical possibility for people who have not studied the Science to understand how viruses develop over time and also have a penchant for assigning sinister motives to everything.

Humans and animals carry viruses that we've developed immunity to over time, and these viruses don't make us sick. Bats carry all sorts of coronaviruses (many haven't even been identified yet) but aren't ill because of it. The danger lies in encountering a new virus we haven't developed immunity to, and encroaching into natural environments containing ample biodiversity provides the perfect environment for passing on pathogens we have no defense against: “We invade tropical forests and other wild landscapes, which harbor so many species of animals and plants—and within those creatures, so many unknown viruses,” David Quammen, author of Spillover: Animal Infections and the Next Pandemic, recently wrote in the New York Times. “We cut the trees; we kill the animals or cage them and send them to markets. We disrupt ecosystems, and we shake viruses loose from their natural hosts. When that happens, they need a new host. Often, we are it.” https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/destroyed-habitat-creates-the-perfect-conditions-for-coronavirus-to-emerge/

I'm challenging you on a specific point within your hypothesis -- your assertion that it's fantastical for a greater number of viruses to be occurring recently, and then using this assumption to imply a greater likelihood of a lab origin for the virus. The article demonstrates why we are encountering more pathogens, and if you believe these researchers it is not "fantastical" that we're encountering more pathogens. I was responding to a topic that you began -- your hypothesis implicating a lab origin for Covid-19. I certainly don't know, and as far as I see at this point nobody knows for sure, but it's an interesting topic to explore. So what do you believe about a lab origin now? Did the article change your mind about whether the origin is from a lab or from the wild? If you do believe now that it's not fantastical that a greater number of viruses are emerging as problems in recent years due to human encroachment of natural spaces, are there other reasons you believe Covid-19 could be due to lab experimentation vs a process happening naturally in the wild?

No I didn't. Try just observing, say, your computer. Then slowly look higher up the page and carefully find my posts. Now slowly glance at each one of them until you find where I said what you said I said. This act of observing is called trying to get it right before posting You said: "Everyone has words and/or tunes going through their minds. Anyone who doesn't have it is dead." and "If you are functioning without words/tunes in your head, then you are an automaton. I don't believe that humans can have completely empty heads. Sorry." Perhaps you are the one who needs to scroll up? In any case, are you now agreeing that a person is not "dead" or an "automaton" with an empty head if no words or tunes are present in their consciousness?

As far as I can see, Fairre, you're basing your hypothesis on an erroneous assumption, but it's not fantastical that we're encountering more deadly viruses in recent years, some lethal to humans, and so your theory in and of itself cannot point to a more likely spread from a lab. Here's an article and graph explaining why it's not fantastical that we're encountering more deadly pathogens due to continuing encroachment into natural spaces: ~~~~~ The pandemic is your fault. Yes, yours. If you are avoiding people, wearing a mask and generally following what public health officials tell you to do (even if that has been a moving target), the notion that you have anything to do with why this pandemic occurred may seem ridiculous. After all, it’s easy to look for blame in others. You may be pointing your finger at Chinese officials for not acting fast enough. A recent Pew study suggested 78 percent of Americans place “a great deal of the blame for the global spread of the coronavirus on the Chinese government’s initial handling” of the outbreak. Maybe you blame politicians who have prioritized their political well being over the health of the people they govern? Or are other people’s diets the problem? A dinner party? A beach party? The police? There is enough blame to go around. Finding blame in yourself can be a more difficult task. But experts say you have played a role whether you know it or not. “What we eat, what we wear, all the other kinds of things that we buy, whether we have a cellphone or not, how many children we have (if we have children), how much we travel — all of those choices put varying degrees of pressure on the rest of the natural world,” the pandemic-focused author David Quammen told me in a Zoom interview. It’s that simple. We’ve created a world where it’s impossible to make choices that don’t impact the natural world. “The more we disrupt wild, diverse ecosystems, the greater jeopardy we have of contacting all of the very diverse viruses that wild animals carry,” said Mr. Quammen. Still not convinced? Do you own a cellphone? “Owning a cellphone makes you a customer for a mineral called coltan,” Mr. Quammen explained When coltan is refined it makes tantalum. And there’s a trace amount of it inside that phone or computer you are using to read this story. Problem is, it’s only found in a few remote places. “One of which is a highly diverse forest area in the eastern Democratic Republic of The Congo,” Mr. Quammen continued. “So when I buy a cellphone, I’m a customer for tantalum and I’m sending a miner into a forest area in eastern Congo. And that miner is probably going to eat bushmeat. So I own a little of the responsibility for the jeopardy that that miner may come in contact with a new virus and spread it to others.” An awkward pause took hold as I contemplated Mr. Quammen’s proposal. “Maybe spread it back to you?” I asked. “Yes, maybe spread it back to me.” I was talking to Mr. Quammen while doing research for “How to Stop the Next Pandemic,” a 14-minute Times documentary that ask the questions: Why do pandemics happen? And how do we stop them in the future? The short film highlights a scary trend largely overshadowed by the coronavirus ravaging the globe: New pathogens that may cause pandemics are on the rise. https://vp.nyt.com/video/2020/08/18/88047_1_pandemics-over-time-cinemagraph_wg_720p.mp4 Trends in historical data charting the incidents of new emerging infectious diseases point to a future with more Covid-19-like events, not fewer. “Yes, they’re increasing over time in direct correlation with human population growth and our ecological footprint,” said Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance, a nonprofit that aims to protect the public from the emergence of disease. If you’re not already concerned about future pandemics, talking to a disease ecologist focused on zoonoses (diseases that pass between animals and humans) will likely open your eyes. Dr. Daszak, who has a knack for monologuing about pathogens, has been warning the world for decades about potential pandemics. In 2008 he co-authored a study titled “Global trends in emerging infectious diseases,” which showed how emerging infectious disease events “have risen significantly over time.” “These pandemics have been with us throughout history,” Dr. Daszak said. “But what’s happening now is we’ve globalized the planet, we’ve colonized the planet, and we’re now coming across the last remaining viruses that wildlife carry that we’ve never experienced before.” If you don’t want to see more Covid-19-like events in the future, I urge you to watch our short film to become more aware of their origins, what role you play in them and most importantly what we can do to stop them. Before finishing my interview with Dr. Daszak, I cautiously joked, “With Covid-19, is nature sending us a message?” Dr. Daszak stared at me without smiling. “Nature didn’t send us this message. We sent it to ourselves,” Dr. Daszak said. Our consumer habits have changed the planet so significantly that “we dominate every ecosystem on earth right now,” he said. “And our response is: we blame one country, versus another. We blame people who eat one species over people who eat another. And we blame nature. Well, no, we need to point the finger directly at ourselves, understand what’s going on and change it.” The call ended. And just like that, the pandemic was my fault. Yours too. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/video/coronavirus-pandemics-causes.html

What proof do you have that WHO is an arm of the Chinese government. I know Trump touted that. The WHO is funded from multiple sources, and many contribute more than China does, and so you really can't use this as a reason why WHO would side with China. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/04/who-funds-world-health-organization-un-coronavirus-pandemic-covid-trump/ Besides, the director of WHO, Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesu, has never even denied lab leakage as a possibility, and so your theory of WHO being in bed with China and protecting them makes no sense. Here's his statement on March 30: "The team also visited several laboratories in Wuhan and considered the possibility that the virus entered the human population as a result of a laboratory incident. However, I do not believe that this assessment was extensive enough. Further data and studies will be needed to reach more robust conclusions. Although the team has concluded that a laboratory leak is the least likely hypothesis, this requires further investigation, potentially with additional missions involving specialist experts, which I am ready to deploy. We will keep you informed as plans progress, and as always, we very much welcome your input. Let me say clearly that as far as WHO is concerned all hypotheses remain on the table." https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-remarks-at-the-member-state-briefing-on-the-report-of-the-international-team-studying-the-origins-of-sars-cov-2

A head cannot be empty. Whatever is running in it, it isn't empty. I suspect that Luna is being a bit .... You're the only one who said a head without words is empty. Did someone else say this? No, you decided this. Others are saying a head without words is not necessarily empty. Try just observing, say, your computer. Then slowly look at the top of your desk. Now slowly glance at a window in your room. Just look, merely observe, simply experience the act of observing but don't think any thoughts about these items. This act of observing is independent of thoughts/words, and is one proof your thoughts are not the only facet of your consciousness. Consciousness goes deep...much deeper than your thoughts.

From The Independent Panel report: "Seized by the gravity of the crisis, in May 2020 the World Health Assembly requested the Director-General of WHO to initiate an impartial, independent, and comprehensive review of the international health response to COVID-19 and of experiences gained and lessons learned from that, and to make recommendations to improve capacities for the future. The Director-General asked H.E. Ellen Johnson Sirleaf and the Rt Hon. Helen Clark to convene an independent panel for this purpose and to report to the World Health Assembly in May 2021". "The Panel has taken a systematic, rigorous and comprehensive approach to its work. It has sought to listen to and learn from a wide range of interlocutors. Since mid-September 2020, the Panel has reviewed extensive literature, conducted original research, heard from experts in 15 round-table discussions and in interviews, received the testimony of people working on the front lines of the pandemic in town-hall-style meetings, and welcomed many submissions from its open invitation to contribute. The Panel has examined the state of pandemic preparedness prior to COVID-19, the circumstances of the identification of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) and the disease it causes, coronavirus disease (COVID-19), and responses globally, regionally and nationally, particularly in the pandemic’s early months. It has also analysed the wide-ranging impact of the pandemic and the ongoing social and economic crisis that it has precipitated".

If you are functioning without words/tunes in your head, then you are an automaton. I don't believe that humans can have completely empty heads. Sorry. It's not about what you believe -- it's about what other people experience and report. I'm telling you that I am functioning best when I don't have words running through my head, and I'm not an automaton. The mind is more than words -- not having words there does not automatically mean the head is empty. I'm very sorry, too.

It's apparent you have not read this thread or the Independent Panel report.

Interesting documentary on who is to blame or how to stop the next pandemic: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/01/video/coronavirus-pandemics-causes.html

You could hire a tutor, but I recommend classes in SL -- they will tell you what works best here, and the group members can give advice during those stuck times when it's so easy to give up. Tutors can be quite expensive, and to learn what you need can take a long while. For example, the Blender Benders course takes an entire year of weekly meetings. Blender Benders is the class I took. Builder's Brewery also has classes but I'm not familiar with them.

When I am functioning most optimally there are no words or tunes going through my mind.

Rule number one in research -- go to the source if possible. Fortunately in the problem we're trying to solve (what went wrong in the pandemic response) the source is mentioned and readily available in both articles you cited: https://theindependentpanel.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/COVID-19-Make-it-the-Last-Pandemic_final.pdf The articles you cite were written by people who interpreted the source material, so best to go to the source and evaluate yourself (The Independent Panel link above), weighing the author's 'spin' or interpretation, yes, (considering it), but it's not wise to trust their interpretation (or what they choose to include or leave out) in a lengthy report wholly. (btw, the articles you cite are pretty much labeled as the 'liberal media' so I would like our conservative forum members to note that I apply the same level of scrutiny to liberal media as I do to conservative media). Anyway, if you read the very lengthy report from The Independent Panel you will see that it's very short-sighted to blame the WHO exclusively for failures -- shortcomings are evident in many organizations and we need to address all of them if we want the best chance of avoiding dire outcomes in future pandemics.

They mention the development of therapeutics on page 63, so it's not true that they only focus on vaccines. Again on page 77 (#10 - Therapeutics). Plus, there are many labs that have been working on viral treatments for decades. Following are the evidence-based therapeutics for Covid according to the AMA: https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/covid-19-therapeutics-what-evidence-shows I can't imagine why you would think it's better to treat a virus than to simply prevent it from spreading in the first place though! Or why you even make the issue into an 'either-or' dilemma -- I mean...can't it be both...can't we use both vaccines and therapeutics? You disparage the time lag in vaccine development? The time-lag for vaccine development is no worse than the time-lag would be for any sort of therapeutic developed to treat a specific virus though, and while it's possible there could be a broad-spectrum treatment better than some we have for a few viruses today it's pretty far-fetched to think there will be one solution to treat all viruses. You also have to consider the resistance that is developed to broad-spectrum anti-virals (the same as we see with bacteria and antibiotics where we soon might not have any viable antibiotics at all!). Really, your faith and insistence in some sort of pie-in-the-sky natural treatment is worse than Big Pharma pushing its drugs unnecessarily. Just because there is corruption in health agencies does not mean everything they do is corrupt! There is corruption and error in all human endeavors but we don't toss them all out because of it. It's your usual black-and-white thinking where 'some' equals 'all' I see on display yet again, and your belief that perfection must exist in human endeavors lest we should throw it all out (and then replace with bizarre 'maverick' solutions from right-wing rags). If you want to see real mavericks in action then read the article I posted in the vaccination thread referencing the dedicated, amazing Scientists who discovered the mRNA technology used for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/redemption-one-scientists-unwavering-belief-mrna-gave-world/

What is reality? /me heads off to watch Westworld...

I see nothing in the two articles you referenced claiming that WHO is exclusively to blame, nor do I see the scapegoating you are exhibiting here within the new independent panel referenced by these articles which describe what went wrong and proposing solutions for the future. It's a long read but worth it: COVID-19: Make it the Last Pandemic (theindependentpanel.org)

Chroma I'm so sorry that your SL experiences were used against you in this way, causing such pain and disruption in both worlds. I can't even imagine. I don't think the world is ready to incorporate multiplicity, as most believe their 'talking mind' is totally the self, while their other parts are more unconscious. I do believe that the only problem lies in some parts not being aware of other parts, and so-called 'singular people' fit that bill as much as someone whose memory lapses pertain more to the physical world! Yes, how wonderful if all these facts could have been/could be more incorporated to our experience in SL (as well as RL).

W.H.O.'s there? lol

It's above my paygrade to determine the competency of WHO, but I do know Trump has been unusually obsessed with China, and so I suspect ulterior motives in his assessments. He does, however, sing in Chinese quite well:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/did-everyone-3-000-years-ago-have-a-voice-in-their-head-510063135

An interesting story about one of the sheroes (Katalin Karikó) responsible for the development of the mRNA technology used in the initial vaccines, and how they actually work: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/redemption-one-scientists-unwavering-belief-mrna-gave-world/

They have a lot of 'alternative reality' support from lots of people, so I don't think our opinion carries much weight.