Peggy Paperdoll

"... (As long as they're not working on a computer in my bank, though, I can live with that **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/html/assets/emoticons/mattemotes/wink.png" border="0" alt=":matte-motes-wink:" title="" />)" ----------------------------------------- And to add to that, as long as they don't come here accusing anyone who tries to point out their ignorance (note that ignorance is not the same as stupid) as being an LL alt or a$$ kisser.........I've been accused of that so many times I wish I had a L$ for each time (I'd be able to cancel my premium account and rent an entire full sim for years on the lindens I would have in my account). That is what drives me crazy (and leads to some of my "outbursts" here ). If you don't know what you are talking about then shut up. If you want to know something then ask.......but don't throw out accusaations because you didn't get the answer you wanted to hear. I may not be 100% correct in all my answers but I'm not intentionally misleading you either. I, for whatever reason, have almost no problems in SL........and the problems I do have always lead back to something in my system or my network (and because of that I can usually fix the problem). But, then again, I do keep an open mind about possible causes....even the most basic that I might overlook (or be ignorant of). BTW, I don't know who this person is......but the tone can be one of many constant complainers here.

Inwolrdz is a spin off of one of the Open Grid group. All those Open Grid grid wolds are developed from a reverse engineered source code of the Second Life grid software. They stated of in a very deep hole compared to SL and for the most part all the grids built on that reverse engineered code are too busy digging out of the hole that they have very little time an resources to play catch up with Linden Lab......I estimate that the best grids (of which Inworldz is probably at the top of that list) are about 2 to 3 years behind SL in development. And they are not gaining much, it at all. LL couldn't do much about the reverse engineering but they can, and do, make it very difficult for anyone to really compete in features and advances in technology. Those people learned quickly that it ain't as easy as they thought about making a better mouse trap. The main draw Inworldz (and others) have in land fees. They do have cheaper land and land tiers than SL. But that limits their inccome for development.......and that, in turn, makes it very difficult to compete with SL. LL has that advantage and is exploiting to the hilt. It will be a while before any of the Open Grid worlds get competitive to (if any of them every do.....and Inworldz probably has one of the best chances. But they ain't there yet). Another thing that is a big put off for about Inworldz. I have an account there but I haven't logged on for about a year (maybe longer). What I saw (besides the lack of stores, shops and venues) was many of the same problems SL was experiencing in 2006...big time lag for no apparent reason, frequent sim crashes, extremely poor sim crossings, and teleports failing at least 50% of the time. I also noticed that everyone there was an SL refugee. Being a former SL resident is not a bad thing and very understandable.....but it was the constant dissing of LL and SL. That crap gets really old very fast when all I wanted to do was join the world and have fun like I do in SL. I know many of the Inworlz people are disgruntled SL people........but they don't need to bore me with their petty issues about SL and LL. I mean how many times do people come here and diss LL for lag, sim crossings, sim crashes, and low frame rates? All that existed in Inworldz........in spads!! I left one evening shaking my head about the childishness of most of the users in Inworldz.....and haven't returned since. To sum it up..........Inworldz is a clone of SL. And it's about 2 to 3 years behind SL with no reason to believe it will ever catch up. Cheap land is the only advantage.......and that will attract the builders who build for the fun of it. But the builders trying to meet tier are starving because there is no market for their products.

Practically nothing you mentioned or listed as issues have anything at all to do with servers. Of all the issues and problems in SL, the servers are just about the strongest component that makes up Second Life. The servers don't have a thing to do with poorly written scripts, or poorly made textures, or improperly made sculpties or mesh. The servers certainly nothing to do with griefers. The software that makes up the grid runs on the servers.......and, I'm sure that software needs some work to make it better. But SL began as an experiment about 10 years ago and it's still an experiment today. The software has been patched and added to thousands of times..........some of those additions and patches don't quite work like the plan (but, remember, SL is an experiment). It's getting better (you should have been here when I got here.....when was the last time you remember the entire grid going down for hours (even days) due to some serious bug (or a griefer taking the grid down)? Probably never since I don't believe you would say what you said if you had been here. I've been on SL forums for a very long time (with this avatar, since April, 2006) and I've heard all the complaints about SL crashing. The vast majority of those crashes that people complain about have been on the users end........they have a problem with their computer, their network, their software, and/or they just don't know what they are doing. That is still the case today. It's easier to point a finger at LL for your problems than to work to try to fix the problem that is on your end. LL cannot fix something that is outside their network......that's up to someone else. Believe it or not, LL does tend to their equipment and it's very reliable with very few problems (other than the software upgrades they do weekly). The servers, themselves, are really quite solid and perform as well as any set of servers for almost any other major network. It would help you to understand if you dug a little and learned just what a server is and what's required to run it.........and to learn what I server can not do. On the griefers. Abuse report them. That's all anyone can do and, if the AR is legitamate (meaning the report of for a real ToS violation and not something frivalous), LL will respond. Griefers are banned for serious attacks.....taking a sim down is serious. Report it and LL will deal with it. I think you are wanting the "servers" to do all that for you........well, the servers are just machines and cannot do a thing about griefers. Software could be put in place but then how many people would be banned because they made a mistake and the software thought it was an attack (say you forgot to delete the resizer script for you 300 prim flexible hair and it went crazy.......a sim gets severely lagged or it crashes). I don't think you would like that much........and neither would I or anyone else. Just use the tool you have.......AR.

I waited for someone else to answer before I did because I really didn't know if you were wanting to put a landmark in a notecard or, as Charolott mentioned, put a notecard in a landmark. In my mind that is like wanting to put a notecard (or some informational text) in a URL link............such as the link to this page in Answers ( http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Creation/I-want-to-put-a-notecard-inside-the-landmark/qaq-p/1614111 ). You can't do that. A landmark is just a shortcut to an SL URL (SLURL) just like your one of your favorites in you web browser is a short cut to the URL for a web page you have saved. You can rename any shortcut in your web browser and you can rename any landmark in SL. If that's what you are asking.

I seriously doubt that Linden Lab will color code folders (if they ever do it will be for more utility than "organizing".......organizing is so open ended in that what's organized for you will probably not be organized for me or many others). I'm pretty sure it can be done but you (or some TPV developer would have to do it). Check out the Viewer Source Code page found here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Get_source_and_compile

It's not your connection. Then, the only thing left is your system. It's not LL because I was just on and at a moderately populated sim with a draw distance set at 256 meter, graphics set at high (without shadows........I don't like the look) I was getting right at 45 FPS. That's pretty typical for me. I have pretty much the same CPU and graphics as you (Intel i5 and a GTX 550Ti 1 GB card). I know about the ping feature in the Stats bar. A better test is an independant one such as http://www.speedtest.net/ . An added feature with Speed Test's ping is that you get your packet loss..........packet loss will cause all sorts of problems. I don't know what to tell you. The specs you gave (as limited as they were) says you should certainly be getting more than 10 FPS in the vast majority of sims in SL. If you don't want to look at your network as a cause and you refuse to believe it's your system, then I'm afraid you will be stuck with what you got. I have patience.........I really do. But anytime makes a statement that they know for a fact it's not something (your connection in this case) yet they are having issues, then that tells me that, in all probability, that the person is closing their mind to a very realistic source of the problem. I still think it's your network......but you don't. So look at your system. That's the best I can do.

You just made my point. "I`m about 12,000km from dallas with a ping of 123ms, 0 lag and at settings that would make your pc cringe, your point?" I don't care what your settings are......believe me they won't make me cringe. As I've told you several times over the months (or years?) I have a decent, but far from high end, computer. I experience no lag and the settings I use are more than good enough for me (depending on where I am on the grid anywhere from 20 to 75 or 80 FPS). I don't dwell on bragging rights...........unlike some people. 

I just love answers from people who are experiencing problems making statements such as: "It's definitely not due to other people using the connection and I'm not wireless". Here's my biggest problem with such statements. You are the one who's having the problem. You, apparently, have a pretty decent computer fully capable of giving more than 10 FPS (not the 100 you seem to be expecting but something in the nieghborhood of 20 to 40 which is more than enough to give pretty good fluid video). How do you know that you are not "sharing" your connection with others? Even if you are not wireless, your router (unless it's one of the few who is not) your wireless is sending and recieving wireless signals and anyone within range of those signals can jump on your connection (the non-technical term for that is "piggy-backing") unless you have your router secured (also known as "locked down"). It's common......it happens all the time. And it will slow you down it that unauthorized connection is doing some heavy duty downloading (which also is common since that "piggy-backer" is not connected with anything that can be traced back to them.......it's your IP that's doing the downloading). That person could be downloading all sorts of illegal content (including child pornography) and it's going to show that you (yeah you, Lethal Vidor, is the one doing it). Is your router locked down and secure? Probably not (I say that because so many people don't even know their network is wide open). On that ping of about 100. You say you are close to the severs. There are two SL servers farms. One is in San Francisco, CA and the other is in Dallas, TX. The closest you can get to both server farms is midway between San Francisco and Dallas........and that would put your pings well below 100. I'm 400 miles (via highway.....probably a little further via the Internet route) from SF.........my pings run right at 45. I'm about 1800 miles from Dallas and those pings run right at 85 to 100. If you are close to the servers (by that I mean, at least, as close as I am) you should not be getting a ping of 100. And now for a possible fix for your (apparently) slow connection. Reboot both your router and you modem. Unplug from teh electrical source for 3 to 5 minutes and plug them back in. Reboot your computer to re-establish your Internet connection. Those two devices (just like computers) need an occassional restarting to work well (and properly).

You should use the resident resolution for the monitor.......1920 x 1080. Set that with Windows and not the nVidia control panel. Then launch your viewer and log in. Under the "Advanced" menu (if it is not shown then ALT-CNTRL-D to enable it) look for "Set UI Size to Default" and click it. Next (under the "Advanced" menu) open "Set Window Size". Don't change anything but look at the UI window size......you should see something like 1920 x 1020 if you are using SL Viewer 3. My resident resolution on my monitor is also 1920 x 1080 and my UI window is 1920 x 1019........I have no distortion. The vertical UI size difference is due to the menu bar and address bar at the top and the tabs bar at the bottom.........I have no side tabs but if I did then the horizontal size would probably be lower than my resident resolution too. Don't try to adjust the UI size using any monitor resolution settings........use the viewers settings.

Check your Device Manager and look for an instance of Phoenix still running in the background. If you see one running the try to force it to shut down. Sometimes you can't get it to shut down so you will need to reboot your computer (I suggest that you actually shut down your computer for a few minutes instead or restarting). If the problem continues then uninstall the viewer (and any other viewers you might have installed on your machine) and searching your computer for any files left over and manually deleting them from your computer). Then get a fresh copy of the viewer setup.......save it to your computer instead of running from the website and install it from the downloaded setup that you saved. You'll have to go through all the preference settings again.

I'm of two minds here. First is that you are actually crashing (and not simply getting disconnected from the servers). Your graphics (the Intel HD 3000 graphics accellerator intergrated into the the i7 CPU) is marginal at best. That graphics adapter is for basic graphics you might encounter web surfing or using business applications......it is not designed for 3D graphics (though it will render 3D, just not very well). It sounds like the graphics adapter is struggling and eventually gets so far behind the rendering requirements that SL to throwing at it that it just crashes. Another, more serious, potential problem is that the on CPU graphics chipset is overheating and then crashing (a problem there is that the graphics is intergrated into the CPU chipset.....you would be in very real danger of burning the CPU in your computer (without a CPU your computer is useless....that is the heart and brain of any computer). I would look for a TPV that is based on the older SL 1.23 viewer code. All the recent SL viewers put much more demand on graphics with all the new stuff added to SL (mesh, and things like that). Lower end computers with low end graphics (though your computer is not low end, your graphics are) just aren't really capable of running the newer viewers with much success. That's the price of progress........you need a better GPU (discrete graphics card). The other possibility (which I touched on) is that you are not crashing at all but getting disconnected from the servers. That is almost always caused by something in your network (your home network, your ISP or somthing in between the two). The only thing you can fix yourself is your network. The two devices that most home networks have that will often cause slow or sparadic connection to the Internet are your modem and your router. Most modems and routers have small memory leaks that build up over time. The way to dump all that memory and start over is rebooting them (just like us Windows users who keep our machines running 24/7 have to do occassionally.........I'm pretty Macs do too but I don't want to start a Mac vs Windows war ). You reboot the two devices by unplugging them from their electrical source for 3 to 5 minutes then plugging them back in. It's usually a good idea to go ahead and reboot your computer too......that re-establishes a good and solid connection to the Internet. If that was your problem then you're all fixed (it's probably about 50 - 50 if that was the problem). It's simple to do and that's why I suggest doing it before you start digging for more complex problems. I hope this is all you are up against because if you are overheating that could be a huge problem (and could get expensive if you burn up the CPU).

If you are renting (which you say you are) then your only option is to ask the person you are renting from. Most likely you won't get your money back......but it never hurts to try. I wouldn't resort to begging though........after all you rented with the knowledge that the land owner has full control (or you sure should have had that knowledge).

And, if you need your build to be even larger than the 64 meters that you can stretch a prim then you can link them........you can over an entire sim by linking prims (that's 256 by 256 meters).

Are you sure it's SL that hates wireless or the other way around? :)

You get the templates for GIMP (or any other editing software program capable of creating clothing or skins in SL) at: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Clothing_Tutorials Listed on that page are several links to templates.....take your pick. GIMP is fully capable of opening Photoshop (PSD) files.....with which most of the templates are formated. It's the same templates no matter what editing program you use.

No harm, no foul. I'm stopping too.........I believe the question was, at least, partially answered. Haven't heard anything back from the OP to confirm the question was answered so, until, there's a question by the OP and needs further explaining, I'm done. Take care.

"... If you will look at the upper and lower template (the two you need for a jacket) or the upper and skirt template (the two you need for a dress), you will notice that the templates are not scaled the same. It's apparant at the seams along the bottom of the upper template and the seams along the top of the lower template and the skirt template. That mismatch makes it necessary to resize the individual templates so that the UV lines line up.......and that can be done fairly easily. But when you resize the templates to match at the bottom or the upper and the top of the lower and skirt templates you don't know what to resize the vertical deminsions to. I tried keeping them to same as the original..........that didn't work well. I tried keeping the aspect ratio to make the vertical deminsion change proporationally to the horizontal change.....that didn't work either. I tried taking a guess and that didn't work. ... ... Don't ask me why the templates are that way. I've wondered and even asked a long time ago......no one could answer (they were all just as clueless as me about the why)...." ----------------------------------------------------- This is what I was referring to when I said I didn't know why the templates were designed that way......and, yes, I have asked around (Chosen Few for one, a few years ago......he does 3D graphics for a living and has worked for some very large, well known companies that require expert 3D graghics artists). He did not know the why either. So the question remains a mystery.......at least to me. It's not all that important really but it does present problems with seam matching using the SL templates. And, as I stated, once you are aware of the problem you can work around it and, actually, get pretty darned good at it. Using a 3D graphics editing problem eliminates the problem for the most part......us 2D users have to go through the learning curve. I then offered my guess as to why LL sized the templates to 512 by 512 pixels (which is a square). I probably should have started another paragraph to make the distinction a little more obvious. Sorry, I'm pretty good at grammar but on a forum I, like most, get a little lazy. I was not saying that I did not know why LL chose powers of 2 for textures..........I know the why (the OpenGL requirement at the time LL developed SL). And I also know that LL is very unlikely to change that requirement since it's already been in place for so long that doing so would really cause problems and a great deal of confusion. We get enough of that with other things LL does after the fact.

Actually, posting alternatives is not a bad thing. However, it can be a bad thing if you do not state that what you are posting is an alternavtive.......not the answer to the question. It becomes a bad thing in that the question askers often does not know enough to discern the "alternative" to the question from the "answer" to the question. That leaves the person asking the question scratching their head without much (if any help......they get two distintly different answers and wonders which one is true. Had you answered the question "how do you boil a chicken?" with "put it your oven (or barbeque) and cook at 350 degrees for 45 minutes per pound allowing the internal temperture to reach 160 degrees F" is a perfectly good answer.......but not for how to boil a chicken. In this case the OP clearly stated that she wasn't very familar with creating clothing using the templates provided by LL for use in SL.......that leads me to believe that the best course for trying to help is to stick with the question as asked. Then, maybe providing an alternative. But, from the question itself (and the way it was asked) mentioning 3D applications to someone with limited knowledge ofs 2D applications would only cause confusion. I see many people get completely confused (and consequently frustrated) in these forums. Then it gets really hard to help further......defeats the purpose of even trying to help someone. That's the whole point I was trying to make. On the OpenGL part. You said that with OpenGL 3.* and newer the power of 2 is not required.............I've heard that before and I don't doubt it at all. However, the SL server software still has that requirement. The requirement as put in place when LL designed the software (because the graphics were going to be rendered using the OpenGL rendering engine......that was to make the graphics cross platform for the Mac and Linux users). Because the power of 2 is a requirement for the software being used then that's all that needs to be said. Both conditions have to be met before any texture not at the power of 2 can be uploaded without distortion (depending on how far off from the power of 2 the distortion could be significant).......OpenGL may allow it but SL does not. It's a requirement because of that. I'm not arguing. I'm trying to be straight forward and as accurate as possible with as little confusion as possible. I'm not here to spout all my experience or knowledge............I openly admit to a novice level.

That seems to fall within a legitamate "Billing" problem. Contact Billing Support directly ------------------------------------- Contacting Linden Lab billing support If you have a non-technical issue related to billing concerns, you can call the Linden Lab billing team at the following toll-free numbers: US/Canada: 800-294-1067 France: 0805-101-490 Germany: 0800-664-5510 Japan: 0066-33-132-830 Portugal: 800-814-450 Spain: 800-300-560 UK: 0800-048-4646 Brazil: 0800-762-1132 Long distance (not free): 703-286-6277 Billing Support is available twenty four hours a day, seven days a week in the US, UK, and Canada and 7 days a week in all other countries listed above.

The question was about using the clothing templates. Those templates are 2D. And I answered the question as best I could for the use of 2D since the question did not mention using a 3D model for clothing..........I know clothing and skins can be done with editing programs that do 3D but that was not the question and I did not bring it up because it was not the question. That's not at all unlike someone asking how to cook a prim rib roast and you tell then now to make a Ceasar's Salad......the question was how to cook a roast, not how to make a salad. I know about the OpenGL power of 2 requirement. That is why, when Linden Lab developed the code for the SL servers. that the power of 2 requirement was put in place. It's there. It's a requirement, and if you don't observe that requirement your textures will be distorted (depending on how far off your texture is from the power or 2 requirement will dictate how distorted the texture will be). It doesn't make any difference at all that OpenGL may no longer have that requirement, the SL code does. You have to observe it or live with the distortion that will occur if you don't. It's not likely to change.......ever.

"... can this be fixed?" ------------------------------------------------------- Maybe. But that chipset will not run any viewer based on the newer SL V-3 code. You'll have to settle for viewers based on the old SL 1.23 code (LL does not offer that viewer for download any longer.......it's basically obsolete). Some TPV's still have viewers that are based on the 1.23 code.......but for how long, is anyone's guess (progress in the tech business moves forward, with or without you and anyone in the tech field will know that and move with the technology........or get left behind). What you call "Intel 965 chipset" is officially named Graphics Media Accellerator 965 (abbreviated by GMA965). It's an onboard graphics chipset designed for basic graphics......nothing heavy duty like real time 3d graphics which is what SL is all about). The GMA chipsets are rapidly becoming obsolete themselves being replaced with on CPU chipset graphics (designated HD graphics). Those accellerators are somewhat better than the GMA's but not by much....they are still designed for basic graphics without much for 3D graphics. So back to the "maybe". Check the TPV's for viewers that are designed for low end computers. I think Imprudence has a viewer based on the 1.23 code that may work.......but it's been a while since I've even considered using a TPV (like almost 2 years) and Imprudence may have dropped that viewer and opted for the more feature rich viewers capable of showing SL as LL has it designed.

This might help: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/315223 Whatever the problem, it appears it's a pretty serious one. Something has failed (or is in the process of failing) in your computer. The most likely suspect, in my opinion, is a memory module but it could be almost any hardware device installed in your computer (including your video card). The problem often is one of those that progressively gets worse over time (one day you'll try to boot your computer is just won't do it). Another problem (or I should say disadvantage) is that your computer is a laptop. That makes if very hard for you to trouble shoot the problem yourself.......a repair facility is your best option (and your computer is not exactly a recent one so you would have to weigh the cost for repair against a new computer). I would start with checking your memory modules first since that is probably the easiest thing that you can do without digging into the innards of your laptop (and I do not recommend anyone who doesn't have a pretty good level of experience in laptop repair).

Yes, you can do that. I've tried it and it didn't work out like I thought it would. If you will look at the upper and lower template (the two you need for a jacket) or the upper and skirt template (the two you need for a dress), you will notice that the templates are not scaled the same. It's apparant at the seams along the bottom of the upper template and the seams along the top of the lower template and the skirt template. That mismatch makes it necessary to resize the individual templates so that the UV lines line up.......and that can be done fairly easily. But when you resize the templates to match at the bottom or the upper and the top of the lower and skirt templates you don't know what to resize the vertical deminsions to. I tried keeping them to same as the original..........that didn't work well. I tried keeping the aspect ratio to make the vertical deminsion change proporationally to the horizontal change.....that didn't work either. I tried taking a guess and that didn't work. I gave up after a few hours. If you are going to design clothing using the 2D flat clothing templates (like I do) you just have to learn where the critical points are (the waist and sides) and make the adjustments on each template. A little practice (and lots of patience) you will get pretty good at it. Don't ask me why the templates are that way. I've wondered and even asked a long time ago......no one could answer (they were all just as clueless as me about the why). My guess is that the SL software and OpenGL require textures to be at powers of two along each deminsion and LL wanted square textures for avatar skins and clothing (clothing and skin textrues should always be uploaded at 512 x 512 pixels.......a power of two on each side). In order to do that and keep the template at a power and two and square the upper and lower/skirt templates were adjusted to compensate. Whatever the reason we are stuck with working within the confines of the templates.

"... something is wrong with SL- it's not this rig; promise! If there's some way that SL makes changes to drivers or something equally horrifying, I need to know about that. Anyone? I see the same question getting answered elsewhere with "check your computer" but I am definitely satisfied that the computer is not the culprit here." --------------------------------------------------- Well, if it's not your rig, then it's something with your ISP, the Internet proper or SL. It's highly unlikely (in fact, just as you promised it's not your rig, I'm going to promise you it's not the SL viewer or the Firestorm viewer). It's not SL (do you realize how many complaints there would have been if this had been going on for 3 days as it has for you? Call your ISP. You can submit a support ticket (but, I promise you that you won't find the answer there). I'm sorry to say unless it's a very remote chance that your ISP is causing the problem that the problem is on your end. Your end includes any network you have and failure to load inventory is a very big clue that something is wrong in your network (or the netword between you and the SL servers). Keeping a closed mind will hinder any resolution to your problem......to the point of never finding a solution at all. If you will launch your viewer (any of your viewers) and under "Help" click "About Second Life". Copy and paste the computer specs back here for people to see. Telling us that you have an Intel Core 2 Duo and 12 GB RAM is not telling nearly enough for anyone to help you.

Here's what I understand about your network setup. You have a PC with XP connected with an Ethernet cable (directly connected). That PC is protected with Trend Micro anti-virus/spyware and you are using Windows Firewall. That computer has no issues with SL. You also have an iMac which is connected wirelessly. You made no mention of any security software on the Mac (not a particularly good idea but many Mac users don't have anti-virus or anti-spyware on their machines. It's also not firewalled. You didn't say anything about a router (which is the usual method to connect more than one computer to a network) so I have to assume you either forgot to mention the router or you have a wirelss modem (I know they make them but I've never run into one myself). Either way my comment is going to be the same. You questioned whether or not Trend Micro could be at the root of the problem. I'm going to say no. The reason is Trend Micro is installed on the XP machine which has no problems with SL. There is no way a program installed on a Windows machine can effect anything on a Mac (even if they are networked.....the Trend Micro security on the XP simply will not work on a Mac (you would need a Mac version installed on the Mac). It's the same with the Windows Firewall........it won't work on a Mac so it won't effect anything on a Mac (not to mention the Windows Firewall for XP is very lightweight and probably wouldn't block SL at all). I'm not familar with wireless modems but I am with wireless routers. I would guess that modems are the same in this respect though. Routers can be setup to block wireless connections and/or set up to block certain wireless ports. Routers are actually hardware firewalls and they can be setup just as a software firewall can be setup. And, I believe that is what you are up against. It's the setup in your router (or modem if you don't have a router........but I really think you do and just forgot to mention it). You'll have to check your manual for how to get into your configuration utility to setup up the router (or you can go online and download the manual for most routers). The only other thing I think might be going on by the way you worded your post is that if you try SL on the XP machine and it is connected to the router, it won't work for SL either. The only way you can get SL to work is to by pass the router and go directly to the modem. If that's the case you probably could connect with the Mac if you connected directly to the modem with the cable. Have you tried that? If this is what's happening then your problem is the router's setup or your router is failing and needs to be replaced.