Chronometria Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If you were ejected from the Titanic. they probably did you a favour. It's just not a safe ship, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Oh how I wish your post had a "like" or "Kudos" button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sheeba Camino wrote: Sorry for sounding harsh sometimes, enlish is not my mothertongue as I told on the first page. World of Warcraft has 10 millions of players, everybody has the same rights there. Facebook has millions of members, don t think there would be so many members if anybody could kick anybody from his site. SL has around 60 k people online at prime time, that means maybe 200 k active users, most of the sims are ghosttowns and finding a club with 30+ people in it is like finding water in the desert. Wonder why ? Is this really the virtual world you want ? A place evrybody can kick you cos he doesn t like your face or you don t the wear green boots the simowner likes. At what time SL has turned into this place ? When I joined SL years ago it was an adventure, a world to build and explore and everybody gave you a warm welcome on his sim and showed you his work and place. That was the stupiest thing I have seen for a long long time. You are comparing apples to fish. In WoW a player CAN'T own something. Everything belongs to the company and so you only have to follow their rules. They don't contain a dresscode, because you can only wear stuff the company made. But there are other rules you need to follow and if you act against them its also no excuse to say you didn't read them. Facebook also has rules. And if I don't want you to enter my group or to make contact with me, I can mute you. And even facebook is not a place without rules and you can be kicked out of the whole thing. Stop crying over nothing. You wasn't friendly to the sim owners (cause you gave a **bleep** about reading one little sentence) and so you can't expect them to care about your excuse. Its their place and their rules. If you don't like them, go somewhere else. And before you start again with your fluffy dream about how SL was back then....since SL exist, sim owners always made the rules for their land, because they paid for it. See it has someone enters your house. You make the rules and guests have to respect them. And yes, if I visit a rp sim or a ballroom I don't want to see latex dresses and urban clothes when they don't fit the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marianne McCann Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Jo Yardley wrote: We too have a dress code, stricter then at the Titanic, we do not bombard our visitors with notecards, but we do give them plenty of warnings before they arrive in the actual sim. Yours was a region I was VERY cautious about visiting, because I knew you had a fairly strict dress code. I am glad I did finally put together a period specific look or two and visit! I also think you do a fair job, with the landing point, of letting people know what is and is not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Thank you very much! It has been a learning process though, always improving on how we can convince people why we want a realistic 1920s atmosphere and why it is worth the bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigren Panthar Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 You have incurred the 'holier-than-thou', sanctimonius withering replies of at least 3 forum 'personalities' who believe they know it all. They don't. Quite rightly you replied politely back to them trying to make your point, which was actually quite vaild, but as you can see they are not in the slightest interested about your point of view, only theirs. Don't worry. After a while reading the forums you can easily spot them. Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Too many sim owners are up their own a***holes, and take the whole thing WAY too seriously. It is one thing to RP in a period sim, but to visit and explore is quite another and you should be able to go as whatever avatar you like. Also, being bombarded by notecards is a pain, more often than not, and the vast majority do not have time to wade through them. I immediately leave sims with heavy rules. They are invariably low on fun, and high on drama. My advice to you is explore and find places you will be welcome as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigren Panthar Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Ouch. a rather nasty reply, methinks. Problem is, like a few others here, you are not the Word, and you do not know it all. Nor do you get the fact the OP has every right to make a post in these forums, and they raise a good point of some sims being too far up their own fundamentals. I bet you're a real bag of laughs to hang around with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sigren Panthar wrote: It is one thing to RP in a period sim, but to visit and explore is quite another and you should be able to go as whatever avatar you like. But how would this work out for the other people in the sim? They are in the middle of their roleplay, living in their historical community, enjoying the atmosphere, trying to envision living in that era... and then someone in a miniskirt, tattoos, a fox tail and punk hair comes along to just stand there and observe... I know that if I allowed that my sim would lose most of its most precious members, myself included. That is not the kind of historical immersive experience I'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsy Penguin Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sheeba Camino wrote: Sorry for sounding harsh sometimes, enlish is not my mothertongue as I told on the first page. World of Warcraft has 10 millions of players, everybody has the same rights there. Facebook has millions of members, don t think there would be so many members if anybody could kick anybody from his site. SL has around 60 k people online at prime time, that means maybe 200 k active users, most of the sims are ghosttowns and finding a club with 30+ people in it is like finding water in the desert. Wonder why ? I don't wonder about it all. Anybody who's been around a while and paying attention knows SL's shortcomings are a result of a mismanaged company that has a lack of knowledge about the product they're supplying. It has nothing to do with sim-owners kicking people for violating their rules. Sheeba Camino wrote: Is this really the virtual world you want ? A place evrybody can kick you cos he doesn t like your face or you don t the wear green boots the simowner likes. A virtual world where if you pay US$295 per month you can have a formal themed region and can boot people who aren't dressed formally? Yes, that's exactly what I wan't. Sheeba Camino wrote: At what time SL has turned into this place ? When I joined SL years ago it was an adventure, a world to build and explore and everybody gave you a warm welcome on his sim and showed you his work and place. Not sure how you missed it, but it's always been like this (i.e., people can ban you from their land for any reason they want). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sheeba Camino wrote: SL has around 60 k people online at prime time, that means maybe 200 k active users, most of the sims are ghosttowns and finding a club with 30+ people in it is like finding water in the desert. Wonder why ? No. SL is a global virtual world, that means that a large part of everyone in SL is sleeping or working when you are not. For instance, my Berlin sim has been doing very well for almost 3 years, we have over 70 apartments that have all been rented almost full time. But does that mean that our sim is always busy? No. At this moment most Europeans are having their evening meal and most Americans are probably still at work or something. Our city is quite empty. But come back later and there are always a few people hanging out, we've had events that were busy enough to crash the sim. Nevertheless, even the busiest sim can be empty sometimes. Mind you, if I find a club with more then 30 people I run the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsy Penguin Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sigren Panthar wrote: ... you should be able to go as whatever avatar you like. No, you should not. The person who pays the bills for the land makes the rules for the land and they should absolutely *NOT* be forced to allow avatars who don't comply with the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I honestly don't understand what the problem here is to follow a sim's rules. When you enter a store in RL you have the famous 'Dogs not allowed' sign at the entrance. If you ignore that and walk in with your dog you will be asked to bring him out. If you refuse, you'll be asked to leave too. If you STILL refuse you WILL be kicked out. In second life it's no different. People pay A LOT of money for their sim, and they have every right to make the rules they feel are necessary and they can, will and -should- enforce these rules. Your entire lack of curteousness and rude disregard to the rules makes me feel bad about being a german too. If you don't like the rules, go to another sim. If you can't be assed to read the rules, go to another sim with no rules. If you want the sim to be how YOU want it...go buy your own sim. But don't complain just because people take care of their property.... YOU entered someone elses world and I can't believe you have the audacity to demand a change of that world. Are you entering people's homes in RL too and tell them they should change their interior design so you'll like it more?! Or that they should keep their door open and unlocked at all times because it's more convenient for you? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coby Foden Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I love that SL has themed regions with strict dress codes. It's great! It adds to the richness and variety of SL. For example, it's wonderful to go to a gorgeous ball room for a dance where everybody is dressed elegantly. That creates the atmosphere. Going to "explore" the place without minding the dress code is unrespectful towards others there. Special theme, special clothes. That shouldn't be too difficult to understand. It's not that some people are taking SL "too seriously". They create a theme and they want to enjoy the theme created. Just like in real life, we dress appropriately for the occasion and environment. If one does not like the strict dress codes there are lots of places where one can go wearing whatever one wishes. SL has something for every imaginable taste. Which is one of the fascinations of SL.. . . just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sheeba Camino wrote: Sorry for sounding harsh sometimes, enlish is not my mothertongue as I told on the first page. World of Warcraft has 10 millions of players, everybody has the same rights there. Facebook has millions of members, don t think there would be so many members if anybody could kick anybody from his site. SL has around 60 k people online at prime time, that means maybe 200 k active users, most of the sims are ghosttowns and finding a club with 30+ people in it is like finding water in the desert. Wonder why ? Is this really the virtual world you want ? A place evrybody can kick you cos he doesn t like your face or you don t the wear green boots the simowner likes. At what time SL has turned into this place ? When I joined SL years ago it was an adventure, a world to build and explore and everybody gave you a warm welcome on his sim and showed you his work and place. I'm not so sure this topic is serious - are you having us on? You've been in SL for several years and have never experienced a sim with rules? WoW, which I've never played but have heard a lot about, is not a user created or paid for world, as far as I know. People do pay to play, but everyone plays the same. The game itself makes the rules and does the rest. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken. Facebook is free to use. With Second Life, if you visit a sim, that's paid for by someone out of their own personal money. Even if they own a shop that turns a profit, they are still putting money back into that sim to pay for the 'land' and upkeep. When people pay for things they expect to have some say over what happens to that thing, whether that is a product, an item, or some virtual space. Soon as I read you've been playing SL for years I began to side-eye this thread. But, for the reason others reading might agree with you I will try to seriously address the 'issue.' From 'your' point of view, or as I can best understand it: You and your friend were feeling up and happy and mainly focusing on each other's company. You wanted to go somewhere fun, and decided The Titanic ship would be a good place to celebrate a birthday (personally I've always found the idea of the ship a bit morbid, but then I didn't like the Cameron film, either. Moving on...) From the staff member/security staff point of view: Two people in a long chain of others came in and ignored the greeter warning message, in local chat. They were ejected for whatever reason. We don't have their take on what happened. Maybe you two were being a bit raucous in your celebrating; maybe you were running gestures and being obnoxious; or maybe it was just the visual rule breaking. The kick was your warning to abide by the sim rules. From the owner's point of view: They pay X amount for the virtual space, and spend other time from their day on its upkeep, making sure it looks nice and everything works as it should. One person in a long chain of others who do not feel rules apply to them sends them an outraged IM about how the rules do not apply to them and they talk to the sim owner as if they are the person's lackey. Owner confers with staff member, who possibly says something like: "I sent them the rules card, which they declined/I sent them an IM which I waited five minutes and they did not reply to despite visiibly not being AFK/I ejected them from the sim because they were dancing into people and dressed completely out of theme." The owner puts the staff member's doing the job as asked, beside the visitor's angry IM and sides with the staff member. The staff member devotes their own time and effort into helping said sim owner run the sim, and keep things nice; even if paid, they can't be paid a living wage for that, and the owner knows how valuable that person's contribution is. By comparison, people who break the rules will likely not be back anyway, or if they do return, will cause more or worse trouble, because someone dared to remind them of said rules. Because, once in a while, people visit who think no rules apply to them and everyone else in SL is an NPC there to serve and entertain them. That's how I see what happened...Now you might be able to give us more information that could refute any of that, or add more to the story, but so far, you've been churlish with others in this topic so I can see it happening just as above. And also keep in mind sim owners and security are human too, and have a bad day. If you were the tenth person that hour to do that type of thing, I can tell you, it really does get old having to repeat rules that are there to be read in the first place. I don't "bombard" people with the rules on my sim; I leave it in a sign to be taken. I assume they are fair minded grownups. But I know only a small percent do so. That's their decision - up until they want to do something even common sense would say is stupid, that breaks a rule, and then claim they didn't know. There is a reason for every rule on a note card, usually because of experience that told the person who wrote that card, that a lot of people doing that particular thing will sink the sim in no time. Because there are many more people who appreciate a well run sim that has rules, than don't. The opposite of a sim becoming a ghost town, it will if no one's minding the ship - pun intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Its only the naked truth. If he brings examples in the discussion that are absolutly senseless (for example: Wow has no renting system, facebook has enough features to keep your stuff not seen by certain users). Not to mention that the owners (in this case two companys) have made also rules which are conected to the use of their product. Thats just the same right every simowner has. They own the land and everything builded on it and so they can make rules about how to "use" their land. And he described clearly how ignorant he was. He didn't care for reading the place description, he didn't care for the notecards and he didn't cared for his environment. If he took the time...like say 1 minute to look on the notices he got and on the things surrounding him he would be not banned from the place. Instead of that he is now blaming the sim owner for his own lazyness and seems to be not in the mood to understand that some people really wish for a certain atmosphere. As you can see I'm a furry too, just like his friend. But I check first if a place is welcoming me with that avatar or not, especially when it is a type of sim, where certain apperance rules are common. With this method I found a pretty ballroom that allows furry avatars and spend a nice hour dancing with a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I can see how someone brand-new to SL wouldn't understand that sims are paid for by other members, or how much time, money and effort can go into decorating a sim (especially custom builds.) But someone who's been in SL for years? So what I think most likely happened was that the visitor does not care how the sim owner or their staff or other visitors feel about any of it, and wanted to dictate the place be suited to their use above all other considerations. A courteous person would probably apologize once they realize they broke a rule; a not so courteous one would not care to begin with even if aware of causing distress would either be arrogant about it or argue about it. The OP should keep in mind they were not the first one to refuse to read or abide by the rules let alone the first to argue about why this or that rule is stupid, or how the thing should be handled, i.e. to demand to be let back in immediately or even to be apologized to by the person who ejected them. That type of stuff gets really old. Yes in a perfect world the sim owner and staff have endless saintly patience to explain to the thousandth person that the rules really do benefit all people and must be applied fairly or not at all - which means, to everyone. But more often than not, being a jerk about it will get you a permaban. For the good of the overall sim, or the owner or staff's sanity. Most people are not banned for breaking a rule. Most people are banned for being a ____ (jerk) about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Sigren Panthar wrote: You have incurred the 'holier-than-thou', sanctimonius withering replies of at least 3 forum 'personalities' who believe they know it all. They don't. Yes, you hit the nail on the head. Too many sim owners are up their own a***holes, and take the whole thing WAY too seriously. It is one thing to RP in a period sim, but to visit and explore is quite another and you should be able to go as whatever avatar you like. I couldn't disagree more. Every sim and venue has a perfect right to insist upon whatever rules it wishes. By your comment you suggest firing up the choppers and taking a ride through Jo Yardley's sim in your BadBoyBiker outfits should be perfectly acceptable. To me and I think a lot of other people, that would be no better than griefing. There are plenty of places I've come across that have rules I can't agree with: I don't stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 2nd & 3rd class passengers on the Titanic didn't have any Formalwear.....maybe they could have stayed below deck to listen to the music? :matte-motes-silly: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It was griefing when Marlon Brando did it, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If it was up to me the Titanic would have the 3rd class not allowed in 1st class areas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaiya Arnold Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It can be problematic when different languages are involved. In real life it would probably be obvious from your body language that you did not understand what you had been told. I think that this landowner has had problems with people arguing about the dress code before and this could get tiresome and make them more hasty and inclined to think someone is setting out to muck them, even when it's a perfectly innocent case of misunderstanding. You could try to explain this to the landowner and be clear that you accept you shoud have read the notecards more quickly but because you were caught up in your friend being about to have her birthday you did not read the notecards immediately. They might rescind the ban if you are very clear that you accept that they have every right to set a dress code and never intended to cause annoyance. Sometimes these things happen and it's possible the landowner would feel differently about things if you explained them. Remember that in SL a lot of communicative information is absent and it can be very easy to get the wrong idea about why someone is not responding immediately to a note card reminder about the rules. I do know that at least some people have 'tried it on" with the Titantic and argued back about the dress code so this might explain why the landowner would get the wrong idea when someone appears to be ignoring their notecard reminder about the rules. It's the landowner's perogative to decide who may be present, and if ultimately you cannot work this out, you can go off and sulk over it but this will make no difference to the landowner, or you can carry on enjoying all the other places in SL that you are not banned from, and again this will make no difference to the landowner, but it might make a difference to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 If it were up to me there would be a drill once a night complete with life jackets and checking on the lifeboats. (Just like should have happened in reality.) And the door to steerage would be locked. (Just like did happen in reality.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I think a lot of body language does come through in Second Life - but it is hard to explain why or how that happens. I don't mean the AO, but rather, things like seeing where someone's head is moving to (often the head follows the mouse, to denote when they are reading your IM - timing is crucial there) how closely they stand to others, and a lot of other things like that. It gets so you can spot trouble before it happens. Then you wait and hope you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaiya Arnold Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 That's interesting. I never really pay attention to where other avatar's heads are moving, but now you've said it like that, I've seen my own avatar's head move about when I move the mouse. I'm going to be a bit more observant about other avatars heads now. You've aroused my curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Melita Magic wrote: If it were up to me there would be a drill once a night complete with life jackets and checking on the lifeboats. (Just like should have happened in reality.) And the door to steerage would be locked. (Just like did happen in reality.) Oh yes, I'd love an exact historical copy of the Titanic, only 1912 clothing allowed....and it may even sink.... but no closed gates like in the movie.... they didn't have those! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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