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is it possible to be sick of life but not be depressed?


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if someone says they sick of life its always assumed there is something wrong with them. as if depression is the problem not the thing that is causing the depression.

isn't it possible, as rare as it might be, that they have good reason to be sick of this life?

things can happen where it would be normal for a person to get depressed over them. that means they are mentally healthy, their depression is an appropriate response to the event. now lets say that event persists, it is beyond their control to change it yet it effects them.

say for example a black person in 1840 whose is trapped in a life of slavery, everything around them is misery and they have no way out, no way to change it, yet them must suffer it.

to me it would be normal and understandable that they would hate life, that they would be depressed everyday.

modern day equivalents to that example can be found. but if that person says anything the only thing they get back is "oh your depressed" "you need meds" go see a doctor" etc. but the fact is there is nothing wrong with them, they are not the problem.

the problem is in some case their society sucks. wouldn't it be natural for a jew living in 1930s germany to be depressed?

what were they supposed to do, just keep smiling and make the best of it?

to me it seems to be a fact that some people have good reason to be depressed and no reason not to be. and to say to them that its them that has to get over it is just not fair and can make things even worse.

frankly if i stated the things that make me so sick of living, i would get flamed to hell for it by a good number of people, they would tell me it is me, that my reasons are not good enough to feel that way. they would say meaningless things like "well do something about it". they would blame me.

the state of the world today depresses me. i can endure it but i am not wrong for being saddened by it and having that sadness effect the quality of my life. to me the bad guys are winning and they've convinced their victims that they are the good guys, that they are being victimized by someone else.

i am just one impotent little peon that can do very little about it and it depresses me. i am quite capable of being a bad guy and making it look like i am not. but i could not live like that either. so i am stuck between a rock and hard place. and for that there is no therapy, no meds, no reasoning, no nothing and there is nothing wrong with me.

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I would say isolated you are, many feel as you do,  if you knew that and them then you would not feel isolated so would have meaning, example there may have been an depressed jew in 1930, but far more jews felt the need to fight and rebalanced it, same goes for now, you may feel alone and that the bad guys have won but far more want to fight and rebalanced that, nature has programmed life to not be alone and when it feels like that to bow out of it, do you think you should when there is so much to be done, to put right what you can see is wrong, or are you blind to that and self indulgent.

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do you the sense that i am blind to that and am self indulgent?

does my post make me come off that way?

just asking out of curiosity.

 

i understand what you mean by being isolated but some circumstances are such that one can't help but be isolated.

and that goes to what my main point of the post was. like, ok i am isolated, but that doesn't mean the depression isn't warranted, its not like there is something wrong with the person.

the slave example is one in which even if they found others who understood and felt the same way, still there is no way out.

my main point is that some people have good cause to be depressed and the answer is not to change themselves but to change the situation........but when that is not possible, they are stuck and it is not their fault.

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Yes a bit, there must be someone that loves you a relative maybe, but nature has programmed us to stop working when we feel completely alone and isolated, it is almost like a test, some have known that and have climbed mountain tops and isolated themselves for 20 years or more to see what is revealed to them. But the way you describe your isolation is not about learning but about remorse, you don't have to lose a loved one to feel grief, just losing the everyday people around you can make you feel that way, I can feel how you feel and I can see it is because you have narrowed your view on what is right and wrong and feel it is time to judge, well I disagree and feel that you must put this aside as learning, you must look inward and see where you fit in the world and not where the world should fit to you, as some one once said, "it is not important that anyone should do for you but what you should do for yourself".

But expressing what you have has helped cure you, you need only words to cure not meds.

 

With regards to the slave, the slave did not die, the slave gave us an insight into ourselves and established some of the rights and wrongs we now live by, they gave us a standard to fight to, how could that have been without them, the landowners, overseers we forget but the slaves we never forget.

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Bouttime Whybrow wrote:

do you the sense that i am blind to that and am self indulgent?

does my post make me come off that way?

just asking out of curiosity.

 

i understand what you mean by being isolated but some circumstances are such that one can't help but be isolated.

and that goes to what my main point of the post was. like, ok i am isolated, but that doesn't mean the depression isn't warranted, its not like there is something wrong with the person.

the slave example is one in which even if they found others who understood and felt the same way, still there is no way out.

my main point is that some people have good cause to be depressed and the answer is not to change themselves but to change the situation........but when that is not possible, they are stuck and it is not their fault.

if the situation cannot be changed then there is no other choice but to either change ones self or not change ones self and stay depressed..

a slave born into slavery would not be depressed  with the only life they have ever known..

where a captured one would..

if there is no way out then the only answer would be to adapt the best they can..

the key is being able to do it..changing and adapting when it feels like it could never happen..that is a huge mountain to climb..but to save ones self is the only choice unless there is another door someplace they just haven't discovered yet..

sometimes when we think there is no other way out ..one can show up out of nowhere..one that may have been infront of them the whole time..

 

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some of your comments are pretty insightful in regards to my personal situation. i went through a couple of very stressful decades where i basically sacrificed the best years of my life for others, so me being self indulgent was far from my mind.

but i think you are talking about a different type of self indulgence, one that i may well in fact be guilty of. sort of the type where i am indulging myself in having made that sacrifice.  and now that i have been free of that situation for a couple of years, i expect the world to understand me even though i was not part of the world enough for there to mutual understanding.

i do feel i have narrowed what is right and wrong and so i am ready to bite the head off anything i deem wrong be it large or small and without patience.

just a note on that slave though. he may have given us great insight into what we should be as a people, but he had every right to feel depressed while he was alive.  realizing that his misery would contribute to an ultimately greater good is a learning process in itself, he would have had to arrive at that understanding, all the while feel the sting of his master's whip while other slaves keep telling him to mind his place, be a good uncle tom and be happy for the little he had, "what's the matter with you? master is good to us". to me he had the right to be angry and depressed, especially when your own people are not on your side. you feel isolated because you are and there was nothing he could do about it. the good slaves got treated better and he, the one who was the real man among them got the shaft.

thank you for your comments, i think you hit somethings right on the head in regards to me.

 

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Ron Khondji wrote:

It sounds to me like you´re not sick of life. You´re sick of the world.

Most people take a 'happy pill' and try to make the best of it.

ya a lot of people are sick of the world.

myself included at times..i don't get depressed about it myself..i just try to deal with it the best i can and keep hoping  more and more see it so we have enough on the same side to kick the sh!t out of the 1% that keeps  the rest of us 99% down lol

hey maybe this will put a smile on someones face..or maybe not ..still a good excuse to play it..i love the song lol

Your castle up in the sky

built on your greed and your lies

Can not protect you from

the hate we hold locked inside

The time for talking is past

Our numbers growing so fast

We're bent on tearing down

all that you had hoped would last

Faceless and masked in the crowd

Our screaming so **bleep**ing loud

hold your hands up but now we're in your head

Down here we look to the skies

Cops can't keep us from the prize

Only a matter of time till we bring you down

What if I told you that

I walk among you and

I'm right behind you and

I'm just a "suit" like you

We stalk your halls of power

We'll bring your darkest hour

We know not how to relent

We are the 99%

We are a nation in flames

And yet you drink your champaigne

We're going under all the

while that you post record gains

Empires laden with lies

Bed ridden government ties

And the Fed sells all your hope then hides

Locked down the parks from inside

The net you stifled with lies

But we're still here hiding in your head

Your cronies sweep through the crowd

Our hatred takes to the cloud

Try to stop it but the fire has begun to spread

What if I told you that

I walk among you and

I'm right behind you and

I'm just a "suit" like you

We stalk your halls of power

We'll bring your darkest hour

We know not how to relent

We are the 99%

In the end we will bring you down

In the end we will watch you drown

Your time my friends is winding down

It's time to cleanse your filthy crown

 

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the occupy movements and anonymous really mean a lot to me and it's to them i look to for a lift. god bless them.

before them i really didn't know there were more than a few people who felt like me.

but i'm still afraid that it won't stick. during the 60s and early 70s there were a lot of people that ended up selling out.

"out on the road today i saw a deadhead sticker on a Cadillac"

i pray that doesn't happen today.

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Yes, your time of looking after others may have diminished, the fact they don't need you so much shows how well you did, but you are not alone and there are many that feel like you, and yes the 60's and 70's were a bit of a cop out, but now we are old now, we wont make that mistake again, we are legion and we will be heard.

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I think what is happening is that ppl are not necessarily depressed, but i do sense many are just tired the way life is organized and with all the bureaucracy, politics, taxes and industrialised systems which have driven them into a kind of economic slavery.

There was a time ppl didn't need all that technology and they could live from nature. In fact it is not even not so long ago, about 100 years ago ppl could have water from their own well, hunt and grow their own food, make a fire, etc. Nowadays too much is forbidden and too much is strongly held within systems we must comply to. 

We moved from the Netherlands to Belgium a few years ago, had a villa buid, we both run our own business in the Netherlands and living very happy, but the tax documentation we need to supply now is just killing. And if we don't supply it we will be accused for fraud while we have done everyting correct. And this is how life is organised, how to make lifes of ohter people a misery because too many just need to make some money with jobs they don't really like. I mean, how much fun can it be to kill off somebodies joy by pure bureaucracy.

Governments and banks first hold a carrot in front of us so we follow, and when we actually have eaten from it we are punished hard as we must provide evidence that we ate from it, how much exactly and when with whom.

We live in a rediculous world if we think of it.

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when the IMF tells a country like Greece they must institute austerity measures, then who is actually making policy for Greece, the sovereign govt of Greece or a few empty suits at the IMF? and on top of that no one in office points that out, how could that be?  all the governments of all first world nations have been co-opted by the suits and they know it.

it is worse than even most people who are fed up realize. everything is a lie.

you think sopa was defeated? no it was not, that was an inoculation for what will be the real bill in which the main powers will still be there.

gas shortage? record oil profits. people in debt? go out and shop to save the economy.

charge people upwards of 30% interest and tell them to just pay the interest on the principle and that does not get called loansharking unless it's some guy named carmine doing the lending on a street corner.

tell people the govt of the US can now pull anyone off the street and hold them for life without ever having to produce them before a judge or bring charges or even notify anyone, they still don't believe it even though it is law. as the protests become more and more intense, how long before the "enemy combatant" tag is applied to the protesters? mark my words it will happen.

grassroots call to action, funded by billionaires is no longer an oxymoron.

even words are losing their meaning.  you don't have to prove anything anymore, just say it and even then you need not make sense, just keep saying it.

BP destroys the gulf, say no more off shore drilling.........then after the furor dies down, issue more permits to do just that.

we are in a world of **bleep**.

things have been wrong for a very very long time, this didn't just start a few years ago and it won't end within a few years.

things are going to get much worse before they get better.

and that is why i have good reason to be depressed and so do all right thinking people.

i feel like i am in the twilight zone. they don't even bother with giving the peons an occasional victory anymore, you know just to keep them believing that the system really does work, it just needs some reform.

it's become blatant and bold.

i have been reluctantly made into a revolutionary. i just hope we all take this far enough and not be mollified by some cheap, ten cent reforms. no more business as usual.

 

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I am very certain that there will be a world wide riot and "war" against the world we live in.

My question is, when will ppl actually organize themselves strong enough to become disobedient in such a way that they cannot be harmed anymore by government officials. A friend us did it. He pulled out all his money from his bank savings, just kept a small account for petty payments, quit his job, stopped paying his bills except for energy and internet. He stopped eating meat, grows fruit and vegetables in his house. The little money he needs comes from a part time job at a local super market. He doesn't have a car anymore as he uses a bycicle, etc. He throws all letters from the government and fiscal offices away. He's been doing this since 2 years. He says... well if the police gets me i might have to do some time... ok then... But sofar he is left alone.

But.... who can and is willing to live like that... We are sooo fond of our materials... and affraid to take those risks.

Ppl from Greece could also simply say... no more... And many are doing it even. Communities in Greece help anyone connect their disconnected energy lines when they are cut off by reason of unpaid bills etc. Being disobedient, but with help of the local community much more is possible.

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We will all know when to act, I do not believe in things like god, but I do have faith in nature and her need to nurture, nature only requires balance, when things are to change direction so to reach that balance then nature will let us know, this thread is all about waking up, when enough have woken up so we will act as one, those that have taken over have become isolated from the people, to them they wont be part of that awakening just its victims as we are now.

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I think many ppl are awake, question is... and what is next to actually do something about it, thus actual mass to become disobedient to the current system. Otherwise it is condemed to remain a kind of academic talk, meanwhile letting the policy makers corrupt more and more.

I just hope the time comes fast that ppl are mass fed up with it and act somehow. Changes are only possible by 2 means as far as i see it: getting organized step by step to bring change (like Nelson Mandela did), or by a crisis (like riots and wars).

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Depression, hopelessness, and grief are all different.  I cannot do justice to the distinctions because I lack the training to do so, but I am aware that you can experience them individually or in combination.  My somewhat limited background suggests to me that much of this conversation is about hopelessness rather than depression.  Or perhaps frustration and grief. 

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Bouttime Whybrow wrote:

i think you might be right professor. but this thread, what people have said makes me feel much more hopeful than i did a few hours ago.
:)

you should listen to the flobots..they are really good and  something about their lyrics makes me feel good..

like this one called  We are winning..

it's  pretty neat once you see what they are doing in it =)

 

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Bouttime Whybrow wrote:

if someone says they sick of life its always assumed there is something wrong with them. as if depression is the problem not the thing that is causing the depression.

isn't it possible, as rare as it might be, that they have good reason to be sick of this life?

things can happen where it would be normal for a person to get depressed over them. that means they are mentally healthy, their depression is an appropriate response to the event. now lets say that event persists, it is beyond their control to change it yet it effects them.

say for example a black person in 1840 whose is trapped in a life of slavery, everything around them is misery and they have no way out, no way to change it, yet them must suffer it.

to me it would be normal and understandable that they would hate life, that they would be depressed everyday.

modern day equivalents to that example can be found. but if that person says anything the only thing they get back is "oh your depressed" "you need meds" go see a doctor" etc. but the fact is there is nothing wrong with them, they are not the problem.

the problem is in some case their society sucks. wouldn't it be natural for a jew living in 1930s germany to be depressed?

what were they supposed to do, just keep smiling and make the best of it?

to me it seems to be a fact that some people have good reason to be depressed and no reason not to be. and to say to them that its them that has to get over it is just not fair and can make things even worse.

frankly if i stated the things that make me so sick of living, i would get flamed to hell for it by a good number of people, they would tell me it is me, that my reasons are not good enough to feel that way. they would say meaningless things like "well do something about it". they would blame me.

the state of the world today depresses me. i can endure it but i am not wrong for being saddened by it and having that sadness effect the quality of my life. to me the bad guys are winning and they've convinced their victims that they are the good guys, that they are being victimized by someone else.

i am just one impotent little peon that can do very little about it and it depresses me. i am quite capable of being a bad guy and making it look like i am not. but i could not live like that either. so i am stuck between a rock and hard place. and for that there is no therapy, no meds, no reasoning, no nothing and there is nothing wrong with me.

 

You go to a doctor and say "there is nothing wrong with me", but seem to be in a depressed state, for a reason or for no apparent reason at all, and a doctor will just type into his computer system "delusion disorder".

We are all just individual unimportant, impotent little peon's, even those who seem to have a massive influence on the world, such as Paul McCartney for his music, and Richard Branson for his incredible business skills. I am sure Paul McCartney has had dark days too, and Richard Branson will always feel unfulfilled, and to an extent lonely/isolated, because of his inability to travel successfully around the world in a hot air balloon.

The fact is, probably not enough is actually known about the brain, to a degree a large amount of how it functions is still only guessed about by the experts.  They can attach you to various machines and monitor your reactions while you are shown the daily world news bulletin, and see how different parts of your brain react to good news, and then bad news.

You can laugh when you are clinically depressed (and people do actually laugh at what may seem to be the most inappropriate things when they are deeply depressed) - that would seem to be a coping mechanism.

I've known people with severe depression who have said the only thing that keeps them from suicide is (a) they have failed in other areas of their life, so why would they be successful on the first attempt at doing themself in? and (b) there just seems to be enough pockets of joy in a day that makes them know life is worth living. And we're all here now, either for a reason, or not for a reason, so it's good to grab a-hold of those pockets of joy.

But, you know, if a person constantly focusses on the doom and gloom of the world, and does not also take on board the great joys of the world, the birth of a baby, the flowers coming up through the soil, warm sunshine on bare skin, the way a smile from a stranger can make them feel, then that feeling of doom and gloom can actually bring on the illness, and chemical changes occur in the brain, and it becomes a cycle that is hard to break from.

It is unfair of anyone to just tell another to pull themselves out of a black hole, as no one knows quite how another person is feeling.  I had a really horrible boss once (well, more than once, but I speak of one particular one), and their mood could turn on a sixpence. It was awful, you just did not know where they stood. They were not mentally ill, but had bowel issues, ended up having major surgery in the end, which actually improved their mood no end. But when they were in a bad mood, it was easy to think they were just a nasty person, or even mentally ill, and maybe, because of their bowel problems, they had become mentally ill; because they were unable to see the brightness outside of the gloom that they were in, their bowel issues being there 24 hours of every day.

But doctors are useful, and meds are useful - in their place - but sharing thoughts with others is always good, better if they are mental health professionals. And in my honest opinion, I've never met one person in my whole life that would not benefit from a session every now and then with a mental health professional. 

We all have issues that bother us, things that seem overwhelming, and while none of us can change the world, if we all take responsibility for a corner of it, things can improve a lot overall. 

I know I must sound very "twee" at times, tree-hugging and hippie-like, but these are my coping strategies on days where things seem dark and never endingly gloomy.  That's why a lot of people hide behind humour - look at how many comedians turn out to be depressed or have mental health problems (ie Tony Hancock, Spike Milligan, Stephen Fry).

And I think the main reasons why some people have a tendency to tell another to "pull yourself together", is because either they've been very very lucky and never felt down and depressed, or they've actually been in the mire themselves, and don't want or need another to suck them back into that void.

Going back to the original question:

Is it possible to be sick of life but not be depressed?

No. I do not think it is possible to be sick of life but not be depressed. 

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i too have wondered about it being the chicken or the egg in terms of mental illness. things can get pretty muddled upstairs at times, you sink into some depression, that changes your chemical balance, you get worse, you go to a doctor and he says "ahh your problem is a chemical imbalance". when really is was something like your envionerment or what have you.

 

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My very old neighbor, who drinks scotch and smokes cigarettes says,"the purpose of life is to enjoy yourself".

It is said, that anything that can happen, does, and will happen, in alternate realities. With that in mind, it is possible for a person to have lived a thousand lifetimes. All the books have been read, you've smelled the all flowers, sailed all the seas, searched your heart, and found those keys. So; what's next?

What's next for you might be found in what you make for yourself. Manifest Destiny is a more than a piece of paper or claim of right, it is a reality when you believe it. The ultimate "choose your own adventure", a potential for overflowing success. All you have to do, is to begin to project yourself where you want to be, and you will begin to move to where you see yourself.

The World, as it is prepared and presented to the mundane, is only exciting when you don't know you are on the ride.

A reliable source of benevolence, can be found in the Law of Averages and in Newton's 3rd Law of Motion (equal and opposite reactions). The Universe has many examples of harmonic balance, night and day, the sun and the moon, matter and anti-matter, warm and cold. If you have a Lock, there is a Key. The Yin Yang symbol has many interpretations, but the meaning is one idea.

An entire world of truth is being concealed from those whose eyes are wide shut. Discontentment is the root of desire for change. For that reason, entertainment is provided and channeled to the masses Via tell a vision Feed in what is called broadcast programming.

I have found many exciting and captivatingly interesting understandings in the exploration for truth and fact. If, in the realm of possibilities, you have not yet quested for knowledge, I can recommend and testify to the fact that it is an wonderfully rewarding journey worthy of being experienced.

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Knowl Paine wrote:

 Manifest Destiny is a more than a piece of paper or claim of right, it is a reality when you believe it.

It appears also to be someone's SL name!


Knowl Paine wrote:

The Universe has many examples of harmonic balance, night and day, the sun and the moon, matter and anti-matter, warm and cold. If you have a Lock, there is a Key. The Yin Yang symbol has many interpretations, but the meaning is one idea.

 

Quite so. I've been grateful many times in my past when stung by nettles to find dock leaves growing nearby to remove the effects of the sting.  And the venom is used to create the anti-venom. Botulism to beauty (?)


Knowl Paine wrote:

All you have to do, is to begin to project yourself where you want to be, and you will begin to move to where you see yourself.

 

This strikes a particular chord. They say that if you think positive, and visualise something that you want, instead of thinking "I could never do that", imagining yourself actually achieving the goal brings about a change in thought pattern. And those with feelings of worthlessness are told to go and stand in front of a mirror and say to their reflected image "I am a good person, I am a worthwhile person", and believe it. For sure, having a "why do bad things always happen to me" attitude can make a person very miserable indeed.  I think Terry Waite and John McCarthy, who were held hostage for many years, are examples of how positive thinking can aid survival. 

Winston Churchill referred to his depression as black dog. It actually scares and inspires me in equal measure that someone with what is deemed to be a mental illness was running a country. I may be in too deep.

 





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