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Can't we convince LL to give up the web profiles / search?


Mircea Lobo
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I know this has been discussed before and is getting old. But the problem gets to me whenever I use Second Life, and I really wish to still see it debated. Especially given that from what I know, most users are feeling the same way and agree with me here. I'm talking about the web profiles being horrible... and with viewer 3, the new web search too.

There are many reasons why I want the old ones back. One of them (heavily discussed) is how slow web profiles are, whenever clicking anything. Last night, I tried looking at the profiles of two residents, and due to lag the web pages wouldn't load at all. Eventually I had to give up until later to see their profiles (although I wasn't getting any lag in-world). That is one thing that determined me to make this topic last night. Another is that web pages in SL's embedded browser look ugly, and the text is blurred. Can be fixed if you resize the window a little, but it still looks rather wrong as a page. Another issue is the implementation itself, and putting part of the SL viewer on a website, pretty much dissecting functionality. In OpenSim / OSGrid, I no longer have profiles and search at all, nor can use actual features of the viewer (such as friend permissions) because they're set from pages now. From what I know, SL aims at being flexible and portable, and I always encourage an optimal implementation too. Also, if the web page fails for any reason, you're stuck with using half of Second Life (like me last night).

This isn't to complain, and I understand there were reasons to try going this way. But it's causing a lot of trouble for me at least, and I can't help but remember how easy it was before parts of the viewer were turned into websites. I don't plan to use a custom viewer either, since I love just about everything in viewer 3 except this.

Since many residents said the same things in the past and I'm not the only one, I was wondering if there's really no chance to convince LL to go back to the old system. Maybe make a vote somewhere, and if most residents agree, LL could put the old implementation back in the next update. I'd really like to see something done about this, and not leaving profiles and search as they are and condemning residents to this change. Can't we find a good alternative at least... or offer the old way optionally? Or even make the web pages and layouts local HTML pages (inside the viewer), while taking the data remotely from the grid.

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The single name idea has to be the lamest idea I have yet to see in SL and in my opinion, not well thought through at all.  Over time you will see names that no one can remember much less type them.  Being that this is a communications based system, this will only get worse over time.

As for the viewer, yes the old one needed updating and new technologies needed to be integrated to it but really?  Adding steps is never a good idea but this is what they did while at the same time, creating a UI that is one the worst laid out application I've worked with anywhere.

I've been trying and hoping I can grow used to it but my biggest problem is the bottom bar on the bottom.  Let me space those out and change them so that we have some control over our UI layout and that terrible way they now do incoming chats.  When the day comes where I am forced to use V3, I'll be spending a lot less time here as it's just not enjoyable.

In the end, let us know if you do a Jira and I will sign on if it is appropriate.  I think we need to collectively push for some improvements on the UI and not just accept what we have as that is the way it will be.

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why not view web profiles through your web browser it's not too difficult just use https://my.secondlife.com/ if you want to view someone's web profile just do https://my.secondlife.com/username where username would be a person with just a user name and https://my.secondlife.com/firstname.lastname where firstname.lastname would be someone with a first and last name. or with the in viewer browser click the option to view the page in your web browser. it might not be what you want but it is better than trying to view web profiles with the inworld tools

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I prefer web profiles.  I like the feed.  And web search actually makes sense to me.  You may convince LL to change things back but you won't convince me that the old ways have any aspects which I'd prefer over the current system. (=_=)

Really, does advancing technology have to pause until ~YOU~ grow bored of the old methods ~YOU~ have latched on to? (=_=)

Go ahead and try.  But don't expect those of us who prefer and utilize the updates to follow you. (^_^)y

 

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Claireschen Hesten wrote:

why not view web profiles through your web browser it's not too difficult just use 
 if you want to view someone's web profile just do 
 where username would be a person with just a user name and 
 where firstname.lastname would be someone with a first and last name. or with the in viewer browser click the option to view the page in your web browser. it might not be what you want but it is better than trying to view web profiles with the inworld tools

If anyone follows your recommendation, which is a good one btw, like I did, one will find that perhaps the source of the whole problem is contained within the setup of the web profiles pages themselves. It is slow to use even when using just the web to access them. It appears to me that LL has attempted to create a Facebook type interface and format, but failed to have it done in a professional way with tight and efficient coding. When accessing these web profiles through a viewer interface, it would simply make the access time even more inefficient. This is a problem LL can fix - it just has to have it done properly, is all. Web profiles are really a great idea, I think, but LL has to do it right.

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That's very good news! As for creating a jira, I'm a bad candidate for that. All the jira tickets I make (some about things that should be interesting) barely get seen a few times in years. So I'd leave that to a more popular user who knows how to report them better than me.

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Had the issue of web profiles not loading two more times today. Sometimes they don't load at all. At other times, they don't load at all and also print this message in red (example from someone's profile):

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"> <style type="text/css"> html, body, iframe { margin: 0; padding: 0; height: 100%; } iframe { display: block; width: 100%; border: none; } </style> <title>Application Error</title></head> </head> <body> <iframe src="http://my-secondlife.s3.amazonaws.com/heroku/500.html"> <p>Application Error</p> </iframe> </body> </html>

I guess I'll make a jira later, if no one with more views can do it instead. At this point, I'd even pay to see these reverted :P

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I have mixed feelings about the web profiles that don't work, or are so slow as to make you think they don't work, and the search that does not work, or is so hard to use as to make you think, whats the use, or just gives you lousy results.  Viewer 1 search results for live interment, 30 results per page output. Viewer 3 search for live interment, 5 results per page.  If you call that new technology, you can have it.
so...
On the one hand I hate them because they are such poor technology.  I am not against new technology, only against new technology that is so much of a pain as to make it useless (to me and apparently a lot of others).
But on the other hand I love them, the more people the lab pisses off the more people populate the many other grids that are out there.  And the better they get because of the bigger populations.  So it will make it easier to leave SL behind if that time comes.  And if it ever comes to that I WILL have places to go.  That has not always been true, but now if the lab is not careful, there ship will leave without them, and it will dock on another grid.
I would rather stay in SL but there is a limit to what I can stand.  I use Imprudence and even without multiple attach points and other things missing from it, its still a better viewer then V2/3.  And yes, this is my opinion.

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Teagan Tobias wrote:


Viewer 1 search results for live interment, 30 results per page output. Viewer 3 search for live interment, 5 results per page.  If you call that new technology, you can have it.

 

entertainment, not interment   :smileyvery-happy:

 

 

Given the prevalence of the bondage business in SL, perhaps they meant "internment." :matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

I prefer web profiles.  I like the feed.  And web search actually makes sense to me.  You may convince LL to change things back but you won't convince me that the old ways have any aspects which I'd prefer over the current system. (=_=)

Really, does advancing technology have to pause until ~YOU~ grow bored of the old methods ~YOU~ have latched on to? (=_=)

Go ahead and try.  But don't expect those of us who prefer and utilize the updates to follow you. (
^_^
)y

 

See my post in this thread and Torley's response and then try to convince we that the GUI for Web Profiles is better.  It is more work, not less.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Your-Avatar/INTERESTS-In-MY-Web-Profiles-Tab-Early-questions-amp-answers/m-p/769411/highlight/true#M2899

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One thing I forgot to mention: I'm not suggesting the complete destruction of web profiles either. I agree that in some cases, they might have their uses (eg: Displaying your profile in your home using media on a prim). I'm only suggesting that they're separated from viewer profiles entirely, and don't contain settings that are not available in the viewer.

That way, people who like the web profiles cand still use them, just that they manually have to type in the URL. Or, the menu profiles could contain an optional link to the web ones. This would be fair in my opinion... and if anyone prefers the web profiles (like Imnotgoing) they can use them too, without condeming everyone else to this slow and badly implemented method. There could even be a debug setting specifying what happens when you right click an avatar and select "View Profile" (viewer menu or web page), but defaulted to viewer please.

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meow :)

I prefer to modify my profile through the browser.  Plus the added bonus of not having to upload pictures for your profile.

The only thing i dont really like, is profiles are suppose to be for SL residents to see, but with the security you can turn that off, making profiles invisible. I would rather see them remove all non residents ability to see them, and remove security from the legacy parts of the profile so all residents can see them.

 

Security on feeds/posting has to be there for sure.

plus yes, use an external browser if you actually want it to come up all the time.

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Never mind guys, the jira got rejected a few minutes after I opened it. The only statement the Linden who closed it was able to make is "We have no plans to revert these features", which for him is a reason to completely reject the idea. So it seems they will completely ignore everything we ask them, so they can go their own way and not listen to anyone else. It's things like these that make me wonder why LL doesn't run a communist party instead of a 3D virtual world, because their attitude toward the user has been perfectly suited for that ever since they existed :(

Anyway, someone else can feel free to make another jira if they wish. Maybe they won't put their fist in every resident's mouth...

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

I prefer web profiles.  I like the feed.  And web search actually makes sense to me.  You may convince LL to change things back but you won't convince me that the old ways have any aspects which I'd prefer over the current system. (=_=)

Really, does advancing technology have to pause until ~YOU~ grow bored of the old methods ~YOU~ have latched on to? (=_=)

Go ahead and try.  But don't expect those of us who prefer and utilize the updates to follow you. (
^_^
)y

 

Yes, ^^ that!

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Mircea Lobo wrote:

Never mind guys, the jira got rejected a few minutes after I opened it. The only statement the Linden who closed it was able to make is "We have no plans to revert these features", which for him is a reason to completely reject the idea. So it seems they will completely ignore everything we ask them, so they can go their own way and not listen to anyone else. It's things like these that make me wonder why LL doesn't run a communist party instead of a 3D virtual world, because their attitude toward the user has been perfectly suited for that ever since they existed
:(

Anyway, someone else can feel free to make another jira if they wish. Maybe they won't put their fist in every resident's mouth...

Perhaps a JIRA to make the web profiles work more efficiently would be better - even if you try to navigage them on the web, the process is so slow, it is not worth it.

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Web profiles wouldn't be so bad if SL's networking code was better. As would be a very large portion of second life itself. I can't count how many posts I've seen, and how many complaints I've heard from friends about how things just don't rez anymore. People can be on 30meg connections, and still have to sit around and wait for textures, which often, don't even rez at all.

It's dumb The worst part is, LL truly doesn't seem to care. As was mentioned, they're notorious for just kind of shrugging off ideas from the users. I guess I'm just kind of venting, personally. Things not loading really .. really destroys productivity and just overall enjoyment. I teleport to a sim, and tell my friends "brb waiting for textures to load." 6 minutes later, everythign's still grey. Only way it rezes is if I run my mouse over them, then they start to load. Most of them finish, substantial amount just never do.

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Mircea Lobo wrote:

Never mind guys, the jira got rejected a few minutes after I opened it. The only statement the Linden who closed it was able to make is "We have no plans to revert these features", which for him is a reason to completely reject the idea.

LL had no plans to revert to last names either until someone created a jira and thousands of residents voted for it. The Linden that closed your jira should be fired for poor judgment and poor customer service.

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Randall Ahren: Seconded. That's clearly not a way someone on the team should be acting, and they should at least reassign people like that. I suggest someone brings this issue to them, and more people request re-opening that jira so it can be voted for. He probably closed it specifically so people won't vote for it, so LL can do their own way simply because they're hard headed.

The best way to make ourselves heard if for people to keep requesting it and voting for the feature, since they can't shut everybody up this way. I suggest someone else brings that poorly-closed jira to higher Lindens, or makes new ones.

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The main problem I see with web profiles is the way they are implmented they al less useful  for quick info on peole you meet. if LL could make them faster and fomated so they Don't fill you whole veiwer window they woud be more useful.

One of the bigest problem I see with a lot of the new changes is that everything seems to designed to take up more screen space I can't see th world any more it is blocked behind all the sub windows. I'm not sure of this delibrate or if it just means all the LL devlopers hae 30" plus monitors, I'm not sure if I havedesk space for that evenif i canafford to buy one.

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