Land Bots

[Chloe Yearsley]

Earlier today I got really annoyed, partly at my own naivety and partly because I felt my ignorance was preyed upon.

I'm not here to debate whether Land Bots are right or wrong, but to explore whether there is any way of avoiding the situation I and I know many others have experienced.

I have owned mainland before, but don't have tons of experience with it and I mistakenly set the land for sale for a nominal fee, whilst trying to sell part of the plot to a group I own, in order to get the 10% bonus. Within a second of my setting it for sale, it was snapped up by a Land Bot. I am currently trying to contact the group owners in order to get my land back.

Whilst investigating this situation I have found loads of other similar stories and wondered why a 5 - 10 minute cooling off period/time delay can't be built into Land Purchases in order for the seller to agree/disagree with the sale? So if the wrong amount was entered in the land price in error, or the wrong person buys the land, the seller has some say in who they sell to.

In RL, even with online purchasing, the Seller can refund the monies and cancel a transaction. Surely in SL there is some way of doing the same thing?

[Cinnamon Lohner]

You have the option to sell land directly to a specific avatar.  You should ALWAYS do that when selling land to yourself or a friend.  Then use the Buy for Group option.  LL has already added a warning prior to setting a parcel for open sale that anyone can buy it even if they are not in the sim.  And most land bot runners will sell the land back once contacted.  With so much land available at low cost, it doesn't do them that much good unless of course you sold a premium location.

--Cinn

[Chloe Yearsley]

Hi Cinn, thanks for the reply. Yes, I understand about the situation, but my thread is more about discussing ways of trying to create a failsafe in order for those of us who are still naive enough to think we may have a few seconds grace before our land is bought (I have it back now btw. Many thanks to the nice man whose bot it was).

I think 5 or 10 mins cooling off isn't much to ask, is it?

[Cinnamon Lohner]

Yes I think its too much.  So I set my land for sale and crash before I can buy it back.  Are you now going to ask LL to extend the period to 30 minutes? When does it end?

Over regulation is never a good thing in my book.  RL or SL!

Then perhaps that's just me. :smileywink:

--Cinn

[Peggy Paperdoll]

There's an age old saying from my neck of the woods:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". 

Linden Lab has a "failsafe" feature on setting your land for sale.  It's right there for you to use.........it's not LL's fault that you didn't use it.  Even if you are niave, LL has to assume that you can, at least, read........they're holding your hand as much as possible.  At some point you have take responisibility for whateve it is you want to do.

[Phil Deakins]

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

At some point you have take

responisibility

for whateve it is you want to do.

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Can I have some of that please? It sounds very tasty. And, if possible, can I have it with gravy

 

I agree with the responses so far. It's made very clear when setting land for sale, so mistakes have to be accepted by the seller. Fortunately, in this case, the seller get the land back so it was an exceptionally good experience, as it's very unlikely to be repeated in the future.

I remember something I once saw in a film. The mine boss prefered to employ the explosives expert who had previously made a fatal mistake with his work - fatal to someone else. That was in preference to a rising star in the explosives field. The reasoning was that the guy who'd killed someone is less likely to make such a mistake again than the newer guy who hadn't yet made a mistake. That's the principle that I meant.

[Randall Ahren]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

The reasoning was that the guy who'd killed someone is less likely to make such a mistake again than the newer guy who hadn't yet made a mistake.

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That's what I look for in a surgeon. I like one that has killed a patient or two as opposed to one that has never had an "oopsie".  :smileyhappy:

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Both you and Phil are being funny (or sarcastic).  But what you both are saying is entirely different.  A physician and an explosive expert are trained for what they do.  An SL land seller is not trained.  LL provides for the untrained with warnings, step by step tutorials and just about anything else necessary for the untrained seller to sell their land without problems.  The trained experts (physicians and demolishists) are taught their professions..........by, of course, people who have experienced some of thos "oopies" (hopefully by books and text instead of first hand knowledge).  When one of those experts make a major error they are held responsible.......because they had the training given to them that should have prevented that error.  LL can't train people any more than they do.......warnings and tutorials.  If the seller can't understand the warnings and/or failed to get "trained" who's responsibility is it?  Linden Labs for not making sure the person got the necessary knowledge?  Or the person not bothering to gain the knowledge?  It's there to be had.........just like that explosive expert, the knowledge was given to him or that physician, he had the knowledge given to him.  Both failed to properly use the knowledge they both had......and they are responisible.  A land seller is not necessarily force fed the knowledge......but it's there for them to gain.

 

It's that "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink" thing..........it's there, use it.

[hotdawg101]

Sorry to hear Chloe. Yes that does happen. Unfortunately quite often as well. Just need to watch how you set the land for sale. Unlike what some say.... no matter how much coffee you take in or how  aware you are.... it will happen. The cool off idea is a good one.

 

I forgot how one should post in here but thought that replies were to help..

 Let me try, When you are setting your land for sale, set the price to 0 Lindens this should stop it from selling to anyone...I read this in another forums thread. If you accidentally set your land for sale at  0L it should cancel out and want you to go back and enter a specific avatar name. So try to get in the habit of setting land you want to transfer to another group by posting that as the selling amount. In case you forget to change from sell to anyone to specifice avatar. You can also ener in the search your own name to sell the land back to yourself for ease of re-deeding the land.  

Hope that helps! 

 Since the TOS seems okay with bots in general, no sense worrying on those pesky landbots. I'd suggest only buying land that has been abandoned to Linden Labs to help kill off land bot use.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Randall Ahren wrote:

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Phil Deakins wrote:

The reasoning was that the guy who'd killed someone is less likely to make such a mistake again than the newer guy who hadn't yet made a mistake.

---

That's what I look for in a surgeon. I like one that has killed a patient or two as opposed to one that has never had an "oopsie".  :smileyhappy:

---

Every analogy fails when you 'alter the context / phrasing' with the knowing intent of making the person who came up with that analogy look bad.

Better to see what the point they were trying to make was, before twisting that point.

It can also be said that context in a case is key in the 'unstated but likely implied details'. I'd prefer the surgeon who was cautious from a past mistake over the one who was cocky from youthful arrogance. But not the surgeon who kept on making mistake after mistake over the one who was careful to the point of not having made any major mistakes.

 

[Phil Deakins]

The point about the explosives person is that, because of his mistake, he would be soooo more careful in the future. The OP made a mistake that cost her. Fortunately, she got the land back. In the future she will be sooo much more careful when setting land for sale, so it was a very valuable experience, which is the point I made.

Incidentally, the explosives person analogy is spot on for this point.

[Mikey Hax]

maybe a surgeon who has just killed the one... if he gets to two then i'd not be convinced he learned enough by the first one! :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:

[Pussycat Catnap]

To OP:

You'll find that most of the successful long term land barons both use bots, -AND- deal with people who make mistakes like you did in a graceful manner.

They're not out to gip people out of their land, they're out to make sure that they get the lots that are unwanted so they can resell them. Many of them will come in, rejoin broken up lots, cut to good sizes, and relist. Not all of course. Some will make micros or rez griefing spam and jack up prices to extort neighbors... but the long term holders in the market stay there by adopting tactics that work to everyone's interests.

 

Without land bots, a lot more of us would be stuck abandoning land. That's not as bad for the grid as it used to be, as abandoned land goes back up for sale now - but it would mean getting -nothing- for land you want to leave.

Land bots have long been the 'way out' for anyone stuck with land they don't want. And quite a few land merchants will hold some lots in reserve until the conditions on the sim are viable for resale - something us 'regular folks' have a lot more trouble doing when we don't have tier that amounts to dozens of sims...

They can be annoying when a mistake like this happens, but 9 times out of 10, you'll be glad there was a land bot around when you needed one.

Remember the name of the bot's owner, since he was willing to deal with you and give you the lot back. When it comes time to really move someday, or if a friend is looking somewhere - recommend that person's offerings. Best to keep the 'good' merchants in business.

 

[Planta Etzel]

Exactly,just yesterday in my map there were me and my friend,and I was setting the land for her to buy it free,but somehow 0L didnt work so I set it to 100L and it worked.At the moment it got for sale a land bot emiadeiatly appeared from nowhere and I got payed 100L...This is spam.Until yesterday I had it for sale 5000L only with more than 900prims and beside linden road(good place),so I guess the major avatar kept its bot alert to instantly buy the land when it was under some price.This is stealing .I want my land back to give it to my bestfriend so we can live in SL side by side.

[161488303349]

send a IM to the bot explaining what happen and could the owner please set the land to sell back to u

also check the bots profile. most reputable landbot owners will have a traceback on the profile to their inworld business. send an IM to the business owner as well

in the IM just be matter-of-fact. accusations of theft doesnt go down well with them after the 60 millionth screaming IM

bc lots of people dump their land to the bots in this way. the bot owner has no way to tell the difference between them ppl and u at point of sale. is very few landbot operators in sl now, not like in olden days. the ones who have survived have done so bc they are professionals

 

[Polenth Yue]

As some random advice: If you're giving land to a friend, and you can't figure out how to sell to a single avatar, set the price really high. Give your friend the money back after they buy it (or give them the money so they can buy it). It saves a lot of angst and having to contact land bot owners.

(Selling to a single avatar is better, but some time back I was selling land to a friend for a group, and they couldn't buy for group when it was set to sale for them. But no land bot was going to pay L10,000 for an 1024.)

[Losty Lighthouse]

 I just bought land at Featherman (112,250,65) Naken Landing. All transactions are in my file. When set the land to sell to have my group buy it he bought it from under me. I had set the land to $1. A bot by the name of LordBaron Munster stole the land from under me within 30sec.

How is this fair?

And yet LL tells me that they can't do anything about it. I just lost $65USD because of this. These bots are stealing! 

[Losty Lighthouse]

The landbot has his groups hidden.

[Marigold Devin]

Welcome to Second Life Forums, Losty

Methinks you must be having a bad week generally :matte-motes-frown: Of all the landbots to lose your land to, it was one owned by the most horrible landbot owner in SL.

You are right. It is not fair. Most of the landbot owners will refund because they allow for human error.

However, LL have enough measures in place already, and advise people to sell to a specific other person, if you look at the official Knowledge Base about land selling/purchasing. 

I really feel for you; it is a lot of money to lose, and whether LL do nothing now or not, I would still submit an abuse report inworld to log a complaint against this particular land bot owner.  

[Alicia Sautereau]

Why sell it to the group when you can just deed it??

Landbots are your best friends as your anti "stuck with land that no one wants", as stated earlier
Sucks to lose land, made a mistake once aswell with a 1024 cause i didn`t do my homework, but if you don`t readup befor playing with things that can cost you money...