You are Ugly and Your Mother Dresses You Funny

[Ima Rang]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Hate campaign? Ima, It doesn't help that the woman you describe is as ugly on the inside as the outside!

Maybe I'm an exception to the "norm", but I'm highly visual and (usually) able to temper my emotions.

What you are describing is just one part of the projection we do online. In the absence of RL cues. I imagine you all to be at least as pleasing to the eye as your avatars. I also imagine your voice is sexy, your conversational and table manners are impeccable and you don't get up to pee at 3AM. You, in turn, imagine that I'd tolerate all your foibles. Heaven help us if we meet in RL and you haven't previously disabused me of my fantasy. Your looks will not save you.

Certainly there are many stories of couples transitioning successfully from online to RL. (In fact, I'm sure this has been going on for hundreds of years, starting with handwritten letters.) In the scenario you created, both people should have been dropping hints about realities and expectations along the way. The truly self-aware will understand the need to gently transition from the projection to the reality, both for themselves and their partner. We all know what happens when we fail to manage expectations. The "blatant honesty" you mention isn't something to be saved for the last minute.

I'll let you all know right now that I'm not as good looking as Maddy (I'm not even as good looking as Snugs). I have vitiligo and by the end of summer I look like an emaciated guernsey cow in a sundress. If I catch you saying "like" more than three times in one minute with food in your mouth while you constantly stir the crushed ice in your glass, you'll wish you'd voted against "concealed carry".

See how easy it can be to manage expectations?!

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Wow, I thought we might have something there for a moment, but unfortunately, sometimes I do get up to pee at 3 am. 

IMO, in this scenario, I don't think that it was an "at the last minute" kind of thing. In an effort to get to know the RL person better...before moving the relationship to exclusive...it started with a picture exchange.  When in SL, you can participate in all kinds of activities and make statments like "I love to dance, and swim, and ski, etc."  Sometimes a story of a RL ski trip may be discussed and an assumption might be that what you love to do in SL is what you love to do in RL.  You may mistake these as hints of RL stuffs, when in reality, they stopped letting you on the ski lift 10 years ago when you exceeded the weight capacity, and although  you like to dance, the residence in the apartment below you have called the police because it sounds like a flash mob when you get giggy with it, so you had to heed the cease and disist letter.

 

My RL feet are not as ugly as my Ima's feet. 

[Ima Rang]

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Ian Undercroft wrote:

I don't think the man can be faulted at all. This is just an example of human nature at work. The relationship depended on an image (whether based on her avatar or otherwise) that he had created in his mind. When that image was shattered by the photo, the relationship, as it had been, was at end.

People such as her can choose to avoid being hurt in this way. Show a RL photo in your profile or at an early stage. This considerably reduces the scope for disllusionment. Of course, you may find you are less popular if, objectively, you are unattractive, but the relationships you do form will be stronger in that they will, likely, be based on your personality rather than your looks.

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That is excellent advice. 

[Ima Rang]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

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Jo Yardley wrote:

Send someone an ugly photo showing someone else sounds like a great plan to check if the other party is shallow and cares about appearance too much.

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All people care about appearance, unless they're extremely desperate and/or have a very low self-esteem. I mean, inner values are all good and well, but appearance is important too. Nobody wants to undersell themselves.

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True, most people do not want to undersell themselves.  Sex is an important part of a relationship, and if the bat and ball stay locked in the dugout due to lack of physical attraction....well, doomed...and that is not really something good values, money, and or a delightful personality can take care of.  

[Lillie Woodells]

Interesting topic Ima.  I've thought about this very thing often.  I was married to a handsome man, but he was an abusive jerk, and in the end he became ugly to look at.  I didn't see the hunky good looking guy that other women saw.   I never have thought of looks as being the most important thing.  It doesn't hurt to be with someone good looking, but to me it's the icing on the cake. 

 

I don't consider myself as attractive, but we are, as someone stated last night, our own worst critic.  The most recent man who stole my heart did not consider himself attractive either.  I found myself over time finding him more and more attractive, in my eyes he is a very handsome man.  His inside characteristics built upon the foundation of his looks and made the whole package more attractive to me. 

I tend to see things differently though.  I wrote this awhile back: 

You are your own story.  You tell your story not always with words.  Your story is told by your eyes, by the set of your jaw, by the lines on your face.  Each line is a clue to the mystery of who you are, earned by some event in your life, inspired by true stories.  Every journey, every victory, every tragedy, each love and each loss is etched on your face.  Every moment makes an impact on us, making us who we are.  Shaping our hearts, minds, and bodies.  We become our story through choice as well as circumstances.  This makes us unique and beautiful, it gives us our character.

 

Those are my thoughts on it.

[Ima Rang]

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Lillie Woodells wrote:

Interesting topic Ima.  I've thought about this very thing often.  I was married to a handsome man, but he was an abusive jerk, and in the end he became ugly to look at.  I didn't see the hunky good looking guy that other women saw.   I never have thought of looks as being the most important thing.  It doesn't hurt to be with someone good looking, but to me it's the icing on the cake. 

 

I don't consider myself as attractive, but we are, as someone stated last night, our own worst critic.  The most recent man who stole my heart did not consider himself attractive either.  I found myself over time finding him more and more attractive, in my eyes he is a very handsome man.  His inside characteristics built upon the foundation of his looks and made the whole package more attractive to me. 

I tend to see things differently though.  I wrote this awhile back: 

You are your own story.  You tell your story not always with words.  Your story is told by your eyes, by the set of your jaw, by the lines on your face.  Each line is a clue to the mystery of who you are, earned by some event in your life, inspired by true stories.  Every journey, every victory, every tragedy, each love and each loss is etched on your face.  Every moment makes an impact on us, making us who we are.  Shaping our hearts, minds, and bodies.  We become our story through choice as well as circumstances.  This makes us unique and beautiful, it gives us our character.

 

Those are my thoughts on it.

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I think the important thing to remember when speaking about looks is personal taste.  Some people think Nicholas Cage is too damn hot for his own good, where I find his so incredibly unattractive I imagine he would scare the tide from coming in.  I'm sure there are many who would find me unattractive, but just as many that would find me beautiful.  Ultimately, as long as I am happy with my appearance and secure with myself, I don't have to cry myself to sleep because some percentage of the population finds me unattractive...because it all comes down to personal taste.  And, as you stated, sometimes a person who is physically attractive can reveal themselves to be so full of **bleep**headedness, that you no longer see their physical attractivness.  Just a big ol' walking turd. 

I have seen the RL you...and you are stunning

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Ima Rang wrote:

In my opinion, the most attractive thing in a woman or man is self-confidence, not arrogance, but self-confidence. 

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Actually, the most attractive trait of a man is his smell. Women subconsciously analyze the male body odor and are able to detect if the major histocompatibility complex of a potential mate is similar or dissimilar to their own. MHC-dissimilarity greatly increases the chance for healthy offspring.

Choosing an MHC-similar mate comes pretty close to incest and can have the same disastrous consequences for the offspring. So even if two SL lovebirds exchange photos and find each other sufficiently attractive, she might still instinctively feel that something is wrong with him once they meet in person. And that's a good thing, because nobody wants kids who spend their entire lives in a plastic bubble or have tails and twelve toes.

Alas, this means that online dating is either pointless or potentially dangerous. Pointless in case that she can't stand his smell and breaks up with him after an RL meetup, even though the two appeared to be incredibly compatible in their online chats, and potentially dangerous because she might already have a crush on him and decide to ignore her gut feeling.

It gets worse though. Pregnant women completely change their MHC preference and suddently seek the company of MHC-similar men. That's why pregnant women tend to be so b!tchy towards their poor male partners This instinct dates back to the time when humans lived in small clans of up to 20 related individuals. Horny and rebellious teenagers (there's another age-old instinct for you) left the family clan for a short and intense romance with an unrelated dark, tall and handsome stranger, and then returned to their relatives after the deed was done.

Hence the post-conception preference for the company of people that smell related. Blood relatives are a lot more likely to provide for and protect a pregnant woman than the guy who fathered her child, seeing that many men use a hit & run strategy. Now, can you imagine what happens when women use oral contraceptives, which block conception by simulating a pregnancy? Exactly.

Luckily, a woman has to lay off the pill if she wants to get pregnant, with the result that she can suddenly no longer stand the company of the guy who she fell in love with while she was on the pill, without really knowing why. Which probably explains why about two thirds of all divorces are filed by women  Here is an interesting article on this topic, in case you want to learn more about it or verify that I didn't just make this up.

Bottom line: Great looks, inner values and self-confidence are not going to cut it. Men also have to smell right. If you want to make sure that he's Mr. Right without scheduling an RL meeting, ask him to wear a T-shirt without using deodorant for a day, and then get him to mail you the T-shirt. But it's so much easier to just keep things in SL, never exchange photos and never ruin the illusion.

[Ima Rang]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

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Ima Rang wrote:

In my opinion, the most attractive thing in a woman or man is self-confidence, not arrogance, but self-confidence. 

---

Actually, the most attractive trait of a man is his smell. Women subconsciously analyze the male body odor and are able to detect if the major histocompatibility complex of a potential mate is similar or dissimilar to their own. MHC-dissimilarity greatly increases the chance for healthy offspring.

Choosing an MHC-similar mate comes pretty close to incest and can have the same disastrous consequences for the offspring. So even if two SL lovebirds exchange photos and find each other sufficiently attractive, she might still instinctively feel that something is wrong with him once they meet in person. And that's a good thing, because nobody wants kids who spend their entire lives in a plastic bubble or have tails and twelve toes.

Alas, this means that online dating is either pointless or potentially dangerous. Pointless in case that she can't stand his smell and breaks up with him after an RL meetup, even though the two appeared to be incredibly compatible in their online chats, and potentially dangerous because she might already have a crush on him and decide to ignore her gut feeling.

It gets worse though. Pregnant women completely change their MHC preference and suddently seek the company of MHC-similar men. That's why pregnant women tend to be so b!tchy towards their poor male partners

This instinct dates back to the time when humans lived in small clans of up to 20 related individuals. Horny and rebellious teenagers (there's another age-old instinct for you) left the family clan for a short and intense romance with an unrelated dark, tall and handsome stranger, and then returned to their relatives after the deed was done.

Hence the post-conception preference for the company of people that smell related. Blood relatives are a lot more likely to provide for and protect a pregnant woman than the guy who fathered her child, seeing that many men use a hit & run strategy. Now, can you imagine what happens when women use oral contraceptives, which block conception by simulating a pregnancy? Exactly.

Luckily, a woman has to lay off the pill if she wants to get pregnant, with the result that she can suddenly no longer stand the company of the guy who she fell in love with while she was on the pill, without really knowing why. Which probably explains why about two thirds of all divorces are filed by women

 

Here is an interesting article

on this topic, in case you want to learn more about it or verify that I didn't just make this up.

Bottom line: Great looks, inner values and self-confidence are not going to cut it. Men also have to smell right. If you want to make sure that he's Mr. Right without scheduling an RL meeting, ask him to wear a T-shirt without using deodorant for a day, and then get him to mail you the T-shirt. But it's so much easier to just keep things in SL, never exchange photos and never ruin the illusion.

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Well that would explain why the hot and bothered occurs after my SO comes in from cutting the grass.  Rarrrrw, and why we produced one very healthy and vibrant offspring

[Rabid Cheetah]

Things were already getting out of control even before the picture exchange.  Boundries should be set, and if the other person doesn't like them, walk.  The longer you wait to confront stalkers and control freaks, the harder it is.

[Lillie Woodells]

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Ima Rang wrote:

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Lillie Woodells wrote:

Interesting topic Ima.  I've thought about this very thing often.  I was married to a handsome man, but he was an abusive jerk, and in the end he became ugly to look at.  I didn't see the hunky good looking guy that other women saw.   I never have thought of looks as being the most important thing.  It doesn't hurt to be with someone good looking, but to me it's the icing on the cake. 

 

I don't consider myself as attractive, but we are, as someone stated last night, our own worst critic.  The most recent man who stole my heart did not consider himself attractive either.  I found myself over time finding him more and more attractive, in my eyes he is a very handsome man.  His inside characteristics built upon the foundation of his looks and made the whole package more attractive to me. 

I tend to see things differently though.  I wrote this awhile back: 

You are your own story.  You tell your story not always with words.  Your story is told by your eyes, by the set of your jaw, by the lines on your face.  Each line is a clue to the mystery of who you are, earned by some event in your life, inspired by true stories.  Every journey, every victory, every tragedy, each love and each loss is etched on your face.  Every moment makes an impact on us, making us who we are.  Shaping our hearts, minds, and bodies.  We become our story through choice as well as circumstances.  This makes us unique and beautiful, it gives us our character.

 

Those are my thoughts on it.

---

I think the important thing to remember when speaking about looks is personal taste

.  Some people think Nicholas Cage is too damn hot for his own good, where I find his so incredibly unattractive I imagine he would scare the tide from coming in.  I'm sure there are many who would find me unattractive, but just as many that would find me beautiful.  Ultimately, as long as I am happy with my appearance and secure with myself, I don't have to cry myself to sleep because some percentage of the population finds me unattractive...because it all comes down to personal taste.  And, as you stated, sometimes a person who is physically attractive can reveal themselves to be so full of **bleep**headedness, that you no longer see their physical attractivness.  Just a big ol' walking turd. 

I have seen the RL you...and you are stunning

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^^That is it!  It doesn't matter what any of us say really.  We simply reveal our own personal thoughts on the subject.   For some people looks are the icing and for some it's the cake. 

[Ima Rang]

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Rabid Cheetah wrote:

Things were already getting out of control even before the picture exchange.  Boundries should be set, and if the other person doesn't like them, walk.  The longer you wait to confront stalkers and control freaks, the harder it is.

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True.  I don't think they were in "relationship" stage long enough for a clear picture to emerge.  He really is a very nice man who loves SL for the creative aspects, and, well, the road to hell is paved with good intentions...but his true intention was not to cause any more hurt than was necessary.  Ultimately, he lost a lot of good friends, and gave up something he really enjoyed for a long period of time.  There was not a winner in the whole situation. 

[Jo Yardley]

I am not as much interested in appearances, probably less then most, both RL and SL.

But my opinion may be a bit useless because the last time I understood the general ideas and opinions on what is acceptable when it comes to relationships and romance was when I saw 'Brief Encounter'.

I don't get this virtual hanky panky at all.

Kids these days

I care about a mans reputation and if he is a gentleman.

Of course I would never go out with someone who does not wear a hat or smoke a pipe.

 

[Jo Yardley]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

something about smelly stuff

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I agree that smell is very important in finding the right partner, but not essential.

Besides, most people these days are soaked in all kinds of aftershafe and deoderants for most of the day.

Most men I date smell of RAF uniforms, pipe and tweed.

And because humans these days have a few more demands then our prehistoric ancestors, just having the right smell wont do either.

Having said that, I do think that it is a great idea to smell dirty people to find out if you like them

[Willow Danube]

In RL, I don't put up much work on my body or face. I dress simple and comfortable and I don't hide behind make ups. Why? I do not want fool my date/potential mate with what I do not have. I prefer to dress myself with personality and character. What you see is what you going to fall in love with.

If a guy sees me in RL and found that I'm not attractive, it would do me a favour if he could just be brutal and honest about it. I do not force myself on a guy and I do not have much time to waste on a guy that isn't worth my effort AND MONEY in the first place.

However, the guy who does fell for me will get something more than just the 'plain' me. They'll see me dressing up for them and sometimes will dress to kill just to impress his friends. I do like the idea of being the trophy girlfriend. And all this because he is worth every detailed effort I put on myself. I know it is not going to be wasted. The looks in his eyes and his compliments would always be priceless.

As for myself? I think pictures and video cam doesn't do a lot of justice to many people. There were times when I see someone's picture how 'ordinary' looking he/she looked and be completely surprised when I see them in person. And there are those people that looked attractive in the picture and then you get to see them in person and I felt like as if I have been cheated.

If this guy and I had intense chemistry with each other, but his RL pic shows himself in RL that only a mother could love, I would still want to meet the person in RL. I would want to give it another chance. The thing is beauty is superficial. I may be attractive now, but there will be a time when people will see me as old, plain and ugly. In the end, to know a guy who would still love me beyond my imperfections is very reassuring.

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

I'm a man and the question's too difficult.  Had to thank you though - the title alone made me laugh out loud.

[Mayalily]

When on the internet, I kind of agree with Ian that just put a rl photo up in the first place in your profile to avoid some of this potential hurt.

However, you still have to be attracted to the person's personality, i.e., things in common, something to talk about (insert voice here).  That special chemistry that just happens involves the whole person, imo, including looks, but attraction could even be their eyes, their smile, their laugh....it ends up being the whole package, warts and all, as years go by, sometimes.  Some relationships will end, and some will go on for decades 'til the end.

I agree with Ishy also, that a man needs to smell "right".  It's pheromones that cause a chemical attraction between two people and it's one of life's greatest mysteries, as well as the physical, plus their voice, eyes, expressions, so many things.  The way they treat you; it's a lot of things that cause the mysterious attraction of two people. 

Onto the subject of stalking, never acceptable behavior. 

I wonder if when two people do actually "fall into that 'wereinlove' stage", if pheromones get secreted?  When in doubt, Google, right?  Unattraction could perhaps cause no pheromones to secrete (?)..

[Storm Clarence]

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Mayalily wrote:

I agree with Ishy also, that a man needs to smell "right". 

It's pheromones that cause a chemical attraction between two people and it's one of life's greatest mysteries,

as well as the physical, plus their voice, eyes, expressions, so many things.  The way they treat you; it's a lot of things that cause the mysterious attraction of two people. 

Onto the subject of stalking, never acceptable behavior. 

I wonder if when two people do actually "fall into that 'wereinlove' stage", if pheromones get secreted?

  When in doubt, Google, right? 

Unattraction could perhaps cause no pheromones to secrete (?)

..

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Very few controlled 'scientific' studies have ever been published suggesting the possibility of pheromones in humans.  

ETA: you may be confusing pheromones with MHC (Major Histocompatibility Complex) and its role in sexual selection, and you would be in error doing so.  

[Mayalily]

I know the disputes that pheromones even exist exits as I've tried pheromones in perfumes.  And, I do know a little about perfumes.  I found Pheromone perfume quite by mistake, although I had heard of the "rumors" of the pheromone attraction and whether it truly existed in humans or not. 

I can't say if it truly does or not.  I can only say that the perfume if put with the right man and the right everything else is incredibly hetero-erotic, and a man does need to have that "smell"... it's unexplainable, but incredible. 

It's some kind of explainable "chemistry" that just is, imo.

[Storm Clarence]

I'm confused.  I give up. 

[Mayalily]

I'm trying to say I have heard some pros and cons already and I don't have the time to devote to a full study to the myriad of studies.  What I'm saying is it's not proven one way or the other for sure yet, but there is something that happens olfactory and "chemistry" and "smell-wise" that just happens.  I have no time for a debate on pheromones, except to go by experience with the perfumes which are an amazing aphrodisiac, but it still has to be the right person.

It's the whole person that we find ourselves attracted too, but the attraction has to start somewhere, and it's usually with a photo or in rl seeing each other, and then eye contact and talking.  To start off a relationship, you have to have something to talk about. 

Pheromones perfume is not really something to talk about, it's something to try, as it's amazing. 

ETA:  What certain pheromone perfumes are meant to do is bring out your scent to the other person, not mask your scent with a cologne or different scent. 

[Willow Danube]

 Once I was cruising through an ancient bazaar in Cairo and found this little obscure oil shop. I walked in and immediately greeted by this guy who served me tea on a pile of carpets and pillows. Anyway, the shop turned out to be a perfume shop and he started showing me some perfumes. I wasn't interested in buying anything until he told me to wait, walked into the back of his shop and came out with this medium size of a box. He opened it and I saw about 10 glass bottles of perfumes written in arabic.

He said, "Yalah! my friend. Open one and smell... Iz nice, no?... Zis, if you wear before go to bed will make your habibi go wild like crazee horse!! Wallaahhh... I'm not lying, my friend"

So I bought it thinking I could use it as an experiment. I suspected it was some kind of pheromone but who knows it could be an animal's urine as well. That was about 6 years ago and I haven't used it. I'm saving it for the perfect man. I don't want to wear it daily to work either. I mean what happened if it really works? 90% of my colleagues at work are males!

[Mayalily]

Imho, you should definately try it, and let us know what happens. 

Or, I have other's for you try, but no carpets, etc, and no gimmicks either.

Good pheromone perfume brings out your unique scent and it is not urine.  Also, good pheromone perfume does not mask your true scent from others as most colognes and perfumes do so if they like your scent, yes they might go a little "crazy".  

I smell a marriage on the way once you use the right pheromone perfume. 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Ima Rang wrote:

 

Would, after a picture exchange, you prefer for your pixel dream to be blatantly honest and tell you that they are not physically attracted to you?  How would you react?

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Huh?  I'm trying to make sense of what you wrote.  I guess those last two sentences are really...uh...what you meant? 

Would I want some SL guy I liked, to tell me that that I'm not his dream woman, after seeing my RL picture?   Well, sure, if that is what his reaction would be, then of course I'd want to know.  Why would I want to continue a relationship with someone who would not be attracted to me? 

 

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Ima Rang wrote:

The plan totally backfired, she could cure him of his evil ways and

she emailed and IM'd with the intensity of a stalker. 

After a week or so

of increasingly intense behavior on her part,

he felt he had no choice but to mute her

as the situation was interferring with his work and general state of happiness.

She launched a widespread hate campaign against him amongst their mutual friends.

  He left SL for six months. 

Women are emotionally driven, are more apt to think that looks are not everything and he should love and appreciate her for her inards.

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Sounds like her "inards" weren't all that beautiful either.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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Ima Rang wrote:

I agree.  I think most women or men even, would get the message, but some simply do not.  In my opinion, the most attractive thing in a woman or man is self-confidence, not arrogance, but self-confidence.  I think in this scenario, had the woman had a high degree of self-confidence, she would have not persued someone who made themselves out to be a cad and player after being alerted to the fact, and alternatively, if if he had told her that he did not find her physically to be his type, she would have had enough intestinal fortitude to understand that looks may not be everything, but they are something...and simply continued to enjoy the relationship as a friendship.  Spreading hatred throughout the group of mutual friends is, IMHO, very telling as to her true character and evidence that she was low on the self-esteem to begin with.

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Oh.  I posted my comment first...and then read this thread.   We're on the same page then. Yes..^^^^^This.

*laughing*

[Melita Magic]

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Jo Yardley wrote:

Send someone an ugly photo showing someone else sounds like a great plan to check if the other party is shallow and cares about appearance too much.

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Ha! This.

Or, just don't do it to begin with. Any of it. But, the OP is the oldest story in SL and will happen countless times more.

[Storm Clarence]

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Mayalily wrote:

Imho, you should definately try it, and let us know what happens. 

Or, I have other's for you try, but no carpets, etc, and no gimmicks either.

Good pheromone perfume brings out your unique scent and it is not urine.  Also, good pheromone perfume does not mask your true scent from others as most colognes and perfumes do so if they like your scent, yes they might go a little "crazy".  

I smell a marriage on the way once you use the right pheromone perfume. 

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/me blinks