Discrimination in SL?

[Ashlyn Voir]

I am always being ignored in world because of my avatar it seems. I'm not going to change how I look in SL because my avatar is a carbon copy of my RL self. I want to represent the way I look and am in RL into SL. I try to spark conversations and such, but it seems that once people find out that I'm trans, they walk away. It sort of makes me feel bad even in RL. 

I didn't realize that after a year and six months of being on SL that it would be so difficult to make friends because of my avatar. 

[Randall Ahren]

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Ashlyn Voir wrote:

I try to spark conversations and such, but it seems that once people find out that I'm trans, they walk away.

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Have you heard the expression "too much information"? People don't need to know everything about you and certainly not all at once after first meeting you. You can hold some information back and disclose it slowly as you become better acquainted. I really don't see why anyone needs to know you're trans unless you're planning to pixel bonk them.

[Alazarin Mondrian]

Might I suggest that you try something that isn't a mini-me of your RL self? There's so much to choose from.

[Freya Mokusei]

Hugs.

I think that in RL, people are more apologetic towards each other about who they are. They wear normal clothes and normal shoes, aiming for normalcy. Things are different in SL - and I'd say for the better - there's no need for that theatre.

The downside is that SL is still quite small, and so those lying on the fringe can find themselves having to play those games still.

You sound neat, though.

ETA:

I've been playing with a thought experiment:-

Assume people in SL start off with an 'idealised' version of themselves, with an assumed 'attraction rate' of ~100%

People then deviate from this with small quirks; a wider face, rounder hips, longer thighs. Each of these changes lowers the attraction rate slightly, and makes them appear more 'niche' and although less ideally perfect, more like their internal vision. The number of quirks people add varies, depending on how low they think they can safely push their attraction rate.

While people who use a lot of quirks (perhaps copying RL completely) appear less idealised (and the attraction rate drops), it tends to lead to being more comfortable, but considerably more 'niche'.

Food for thought, perhaps.

[Six Igaly]

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 You can hold some information back and disclose it slowly as you become better acquainted. I really don't see why anyone needs to know you're trans unless you're planning to pixel bonk them.

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Why would someone not know? What is the difference between knowing someone is straight / gay or transsexual!  Or a transsexual lesbian even! There is no relation what so ever between knowing someone's gender and wanting to pixel bonk! Unless of course when this is a secret desire of yours. Maybe you just scared yourself because you got aroused by the idea....

 

[Ishtara Rothschild]

That's strange. My avatar is transsexual too, and I've never felt discriminated against in SL. Perhaps you frequent the wrong places or hang out with the wrong people? There are many hangouts for T-girls, transgenders, herms, androgynes, futas, crossdressers, ladyboys, femboys etc., such as my nude beach at Dark Delights (sorry for the shameless plug, I swear on my collection of Lovecraft's Cthulhu stories that the OP is not my alt :smileywink:)

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Randall Ahren wrote:

Have you heard the expression "too much information"? People don't need to know everything about you and certainly not all at once after first meeting you. You can hold some information back and disclose it slowly as you become better acquainted. I really don't see why anyone needs to know you're trans unless you're planning to pixel bonk them.

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In my experience, failure to disclose this information early on can cause people to feel deceived. I don't know if the OP mentions this detail in her profile, but I've found that it helps to be completely open about it  Not only does it keep the wrong kind of people away, it also attracts the right ones.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

Might I suggest that you try something that isn't a mini-me of your RL self? There's so much to choose from.

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I'm usually the first one to point out that SL is all about being somebody else, but if the OP wants to be herself in SL, why should she have to hide her sexual identity? That only attracts the wrong kind of friends, imho. I wouldn't want to socialize with people who might drop me like a hot potato if they knew a few details about my RL.

[Randall Ahren]

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Six Igaly wrote:

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 What is the difference between knowing someone is straight / gay or transsexual!  Or a transsexual lesbian even! There is no relation what so ever between knowing someone's gender and wanting to pixel bonk! 

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Don't you think it would be a bit odd if I introduced myself to someone by saying "Hi, I'm a hetero male, how about you?". 

[Six Igaly]

I think it is odd that when you say "i'm hetero" people are not more then a bit surprised only because the fact you say this, but when you say "i'm transsexual" people don't want to hear and come up with all kind of  'advices' on why you should not!

[Freya Mokusei]

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Randall Ahren wrote:

Don't you think it would be a bit odd if I introduced myself to someone by saying "Hi, I'm a hetero male, how about you?". 

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Your comment would make sense if that's what Ashlyn was doing. However she didn't say that it's something she does immediately, but rather:-

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Ashlyn Voir wrote:

I try to spark conversations and such, but it seems that

once people find out

that I'm trans, they walk away.

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This implies there's a delay between the 'Hi' and 'I'm a...'.

Thanks for playing. :smileyvery-happy:

[Randall Ahren]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Ashlyn Voir wrote:

I try to spark conversations and such, but it seems that

once people find out

that I'm trans, they walk away.

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This implies there's a delay between the 'Hi' and 'I'm a...'.

 

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The inference is a small delay, because she says they "walk" away, as in this was an intial face-to-face meeting in which the info was disclosed, which is too soon. Maybe Ashlyn will post again and provide more details.

Concerning your allegation of playing, I don't consider this to be a contest in which there are winners and losers. I find you're behavior combative and childish. Welcome to my ignore list.

[Freya Mokusei]

I'm sorry that you took offence. I added the smiley for a reason?

Additionally, (and to stay on topic) 'walking away' is often not-literal. To 'walk away' from a disgreement, for example.

I agree that more details would be nice, but I feel making assumptions when dealing with perceived discrimination is... unwise.

[Ren Toxx]

Discrimination should not be accepted, but it does have one advantage: it works both ways. Those that reject you are those you know aren't worth your time anyway.

[Ashlyn Voir]

I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner. Sorry if I offended anyone. I'm really sorry. When I first meet someone, I talk to them like a normal person. I don't tell them anything unless they ask me, but when they do ask then it's usually a problem for them and they stop talking to me all together. I try my best to be honest with everyone because if not, then it'll usually bite me in the butt later. 

I don't mean to offend anyone with this statement, but I understand that the concept of SL is that you can be whoever you want to be and while that is great and all, I also understood that your avatar is also a virtual representation of the RL you. I designed my avatar many times to the point where it didn't really feel like who I was and then eventually I designed my avi to be just like who I am. 

[Freya Mokusei]

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Ashlyn Voir wrote:

I don't mean to offend anyone with this statement, but I understand that the concept of SL is that you can be whoever you want to be and while that is great and all, I also understood that your avatar is also a virtual representation of the RL you. I designed my avatar many times to the point where it didn't really feel like who I was and then eventually I designed my avi to be just like who I am. 

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Thanks for your response. I apologise for the slight de-rail that took place in your absence.

I remember a line from the first Matrix film "A digital representation of your physical self". I think that anything a person creates will reflect that person's nature, regardless of how close to being accurate it is to being realistic.

That said, it seems to me that you've put a lot of effort into your appearance, even in making it reflect yourself; something most residents love to see.

I agree with Ishtara's comments, that perhaps you've just been unlucky in your search so far? While I can't speak for Trans people, I do find many of them integrate very well within SL, so it's definitely possible. I, too, would recommend Ishtara's beach as a place to perhaps feel more secure. There's many others too, I'm sure.

Would you mind people posting more SLURLs? Is there any community you're especially seeking acceptance within?

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Randall Ahren wrote:

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Six Igaly wrote:

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 What is the difference between knowing someone is straight / gay or transsexual!  Or a transsexual lesbian even! There is no relation what so ever between knowing someone's gender and wanting to pixel bonk! 

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Don't you think it would be a bit odd if I introduced myself to someone by saying "Hi, I'm a hetero male, how about you?". 

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Heterosexual people proudly wear wedding rings that inform all and sundry about their relationship status. They often talk about their spouses as a conversation starter ("my wife says I should lose a few pounds"), brag with or gossip about their sexual adventures when among peers, publicly comment on their objects of desire ("will you look at those legs"), keep photos of their spouses on their desks, and place bumper stickers on their cars that read "baby on board" or "my stoner son can beat up your honor student".

And there is nothing wrong with that of course. But when people with a non-standard sexuality do the same ("my gay boyfriend says... my Master says..."), they're often met with the accusation of needlessly advertising their sexuality.

 

There is yet another angle to this. Somebody who has grown up with a non-standard sexual orientation or sexual identity has usually experienced a lot of peer abuse and hatred, not to mention awkward situations in the company of people who were not aware of his or her sexuality (gay jokes, matchmaking attempts etc.). After a while, one learns to get this matter out of the way early on to avoid being hurt by others, either unwittingly or through rejection after they've eventually found out. Either that or one becomes a social recluse like myself

Heterosexual people never have to face this problem. Introducing yourself with "pleased to meet you, I'm hetero" is like saying "Hi, I'm Peter and I don't have any food allergies". It is usually assumed, which is exactly why you might want to point out if you *do* have a peanut allergy before you're invited to dinner and things go awry. For the same reason, people might want to hint at the fact that they're kind of allergic to things like gay jokes and homophobia.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

Btw, Jo Yardley, who runs the 1920s Berlin Project sim, mentioned in this thread that she has recreated the (in)famous Berlin gay and trans bar Eldorado. That's something different for a change I'll probably dig out my vintage dresses and feathered hairstyles and check out her place later on.

[Venus Petrov]

There is discrimination in SL just as in RL because the operators of the avatars are real people.  Unfortunate, but reality.  I am sure that if you asked around you would find other avatars who feel the same for different reasons.  Some clubs are more welcoming to certain avatars than to others.  I wish this were not the case.

Very early in my SL, I happened upon a furry sim with a lively club.  Actually, it was a lesbian furry club although I did not know this when I walked in and realized I was the only human avatar there.  They were very welcoming and friendly and one danced with me.  While I never went there again (I was not very good at collecting LMs at the time), I have always felt positive about furries precisely because of that experience.

Perhaps it would be easier and boost your confidence a bit if you visited some of the venues in SL that are friendly to trannies (Ishy plugged her beach).  Once your confidence has grown, branch out.

[Kelli May]

It shouldn't be a problem, but unfortunately it still is. Less so than in RL, but it's still an issue to many. MY 'First Life' tab used to say that I'm transsexual, and it rarely made a difference to anyone I chatted to (maybe because people don't always look at the First Life tab?). I've since decided that for my purposes, it's not necessary for the information to be there, so I changed it. I still have a picture of my RL self in there; I consider that if anyone is that bothered about RL appearence, they'll look. I don't state male or female, just my age and country of origin. The rest is for them to find out. If anyone asks me, I tell them the situation. I rarely mention it unless, like here, it's relevant to the situation.

As something of a minority in SL, you (we) have the a few choices. We can hide it completely, and risk being vilified for deceit if the truth is revealed. We can go to the other extreme and wear it as a badge of pride, blazing a trail for the less confident to follow, but risking conflict along the way. Or we can take a path somewhere inbetween - perhaps risking both. No-one can decide which is your path but you. You have my respect and support either way.

 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Seems to me the people you've met so far are jerks. ()

Give things time and move around a bit.  You'll eventually find people who can appreciate you. ()

Your world, your imagination.  Whatever happens, don't give your self up for jerks. ()y

 

 

[Kasuga Hax]

When anonymous, some people think it is less bad, or care less about respecting others.

I usually ignore people who can't be nice to me. I am not forced to take their crap, and god invented the mute button for a reason

[Storm Clarence]

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Kasuga Hax wrote:

I usually ignore people who can't be nice to me

. I am not forced to take their crap...

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Perfect post.   If you have nothing kind, intelligent, or humorous to say then I am NOT interested.

[Dagger Greymoon]

>>> Randall Ahren wrote:

Have you heard the expression "too much information"? People don't need to know everything about you and certainly not all at once after first meeting you. You can hold some information back and disclose it slowly as you become better acquainted. I really don't see why anyone needs to know you're trans unless you're planning to pixel bonk them.

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In my experience, failure to disclose this information early on can cause people to feel deceived. I don't know if the OP mentions this detail in her profile, but I've found that it helps to be completely open about it **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" /> Not only does it keep the wrong kind of people away, it also attracts the right ones.

<<<<<<

 

I couldn't possibly disagree more.  It never fails to amaze me how so many folks in this game have trouble with the concept:  "What part of MMORPG don't you understand?  Oh yeah -- The RP part..."

 

I've yet to meet any folks in RL who have human/cybernetic bodies and animal heads and tails capable of flight simply by pressing Page Up on their Ipads, but hey,  maybe I've just bee nhangin' around with the wrong crowd.

 

Sorry, few things tick me off more than the attitude that I must give a full disclosure of who I am if I wish to play this GAME GAME GAME (yes, it's just a GAME, folks).  If I want to have people demanding my personal information and violating my privacy, I'll just go talk to the government...

[Dagger Greymoon]

>>>>

I'm usually the first one to point out that SL is all about being somebody else, but if the OP wants to be herself in SL, why should she have to hide her sexual identity? That only attracts the wrong kind of friends, imho. I wouldn't want to socialize with people who might drop me like a hot potato if they knew a few details about my RL.

<<<<

 

 

...and with THIS post, I couldn't AGREE more.  Let folks decide on their own what they do or no not wish to reveal.

 

One caveat:  Keep the sex stuff out of your profile as not everyone is comfortable with adult themes.  Again, let that be their own choice, save the adult stuff for the adult areas and keep the general areas general (which would include profiles viewable by all).