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Most Avatars have their arms too short


Mayalily
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Most avatars, or almost all, have their arms too short.

To check out how long your arms actually are is to stand up straight, good posture, now lower your arms down towards your legs. Your wrists and hands should fall about mid thigh area.  To test this, place your wrists on your thighs, then completely relax your hand to see where your hand falls on the thigh area.  Most avatars have their arms at about hip length and that is way too short.

This is a helpful hint I learned when I was painting (not currently painting at this time).  Follow the steps above to see where your arm length should be.  I set mine at about 77 and it looks pretty good, but might need to even go a little further than 77.  I'm still working on getting my arm length right also but I'm getting pretty close. 

ETA:  This thread is for human avatar arms and shapes only, please. 

 

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This is true.  I recently fixed my arms.  I think they're at 80 right now and for the taller alts it's 85, but i still may increase further. 

A lot of male avies especially have their hands dangling just below their waists.  It looks ridiculous with the over-emphasised triangular torso.

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Standing straight up with hands at sides, a line from wristbone to wristbone should cross halfway between naval and genitals. Fingertips should reach to "bottom of pants pocket" length. It's helpful to use the AV mesh as a rough guide because many SL skin designers have no darn clue where the human bellybutton is supposed to be.

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Um.... word...

We've been talking about this for a month or so now ever since all the avatar size and proportion posts. :)

There's screenshots of this and how to do it properly in my proportion guide. And Penny's gotten up on the podium to point it out and how to fix it many times as well.

 

Party like its last month:

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2011/06/15/getting-good-body-proportions-in-second-life/

:D

 

For a female the setting needs to be about 100 for a 5'5" or shorter AV. Any higher is not possible to fix unless you make body thickness and shoulder width higher.

Wingspan from finger tip to finger tip when in a T-Pose should -EQUAL- avatar height from toes to top of head. Use a prim to measure it.

 This is not preference but scientific fact. That is how long your arms are, unless you're a distorted cartoon or have a birth defect. They are as long as you are tall. As far as I know being overweight wouldn't change this - unless it can distort the skeleton (which I don't think it does, but lack the real life experience to know).

 

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if people are trying to look RL then ya..

if not then no hehehe

no not all are trying to conform.. because it doesn't fit some avatars plans..

 

i would say..people trying to look RL human should try this rather than telling everyone they are doing it wrong..

just sayin *winks*

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

...Wingspan from finger tip to finger tip when in a T-Pose should -EQUAL- avatar height from toes to top of head. Use a prim to measure it.

 This is not preference but scientific fact. That is how long your arms are, unless you're a distorted cartoon or have a birth defect. They are as long as you are tall. As far as I know being overweight wouldn't change this - unless it can distort the skeleton (which I don't think it does, but lack the real life experience to know).

 

Absolutely. Occasionally arm-span is a tiny bit shorter than height on our 'RL avatars', but rarely by more than an inch. It's usually the same or often a little longer. In boxing they call this 'reach' and it's often listed alongside a boxer's height. Larry Holmes, for example, has an 81" reach despite being 73" tall. Reach is, of course, an advantage to a boxer so they are often a little outside the norm, but it does show that a large arm-span is not unusual.

RL height: 5' 9 3/4"

RL reach: 6' 1 1/2"

I coulda been a contender...

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

no not all are trying to conform.. because it doesn't fit some avatars plans..

 i would say..people trying to look RL human should try this rather than telling everyone they are doing it wrong..

Proper artistic deformation first begins by understanding and working with the undeformed.

- Which is to say that, if you're arms are short or long - it needs to be by intent to achieve some particular purpose.

Otherwise yes, you are doing it wrong.

 

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A month, well why do so many avi's still have these children-sized arms on adult bodies?  I guess they are not reading the forum.

Most avatars still have these little arms on adult size bodies no matter how many times we try to coax them over to the forum.

People spend a lot of time AND effort in their avatars, so their should be some kind of guide with at least recommended settings for the arms, because the arms do look like arms for a child rather than for an adult. 

Oh and yes I should have stipulated this thread is for human avatars only please, as adding in differing creatures is too confusing.

My height is set at 96, arms at 77, and it's pretty darn good.  I think I started with arms set at 50 or something ridiculous but was doing and learning so many other things, my arms went completely overlooked for quite some time and were way too short, but getting better! 

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Mayalily wrote:

 

People spend a lot of time AND effort in their avatars, so their
should be some kind of guide
with at least recommended settings for the arms, because the arms do look like arms for a child rather than for an adult.

http://catnapkitty.wordpress.com/2011/06/15/getting-good-body-proportions-in-second-life/

<-------- Like this. ;)

 

Its getting a lot of hits, but not enough. Its the shape makers that tend to be ignorant of basic art. There's nothing in that guide that couldn't also be learned by reading any article on anatomy. Its just got pics of prims and rephrasing of Penny next to it to make it easier to connect the anatomy lessons to the SL dials.

T-rex arms is a very old problem in SL.

As for children:

http://www.idrawdigital.com/2009/01/tutorial-adult-child-proportions/

Number of heads tall changes, but wingspan still remains at roughly equal to body height.

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:

no not all are trying to conform.. because it doesn't fit some avatars plans..

 i would say..people trying to look RL human should try this rather than telling everyone they are doing it wrong..

Proper artistic deformation first begins by understanding and working with the undeformed.

- Which is to say that, if you're arms are short or long - it needs to be
by intent to achieve some particular purpose
.

Otherwise yes, you are doing it wrong.

 

no it doesn't ..stop putting rules where there should be none LOL my point was don't say everyone is doing it wrong..

it doesn't need to come from anything but the imagination..where the heck do people get this stuff that there are rules to go by when it comes to art?  in a world that is meant for "CREATION" not break down and follow the rules hehehe

you don't need to know the exact features to create anything..

 

as i said..if you are going for RL human..then yes follow the rules..if not then no..but saying EVERYONE is doing wrong is doing it wrong...

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:

no not all are trying to conform.. because it doesn't fit some avatars plans..

 i would say..people trying to look RL human should try this rather than telling everyone they are doing it wrong..

Proper artistic deformation first begins by understanding and working with the undeformed.

- Which is to say that, if you're arms are short or long - it needs to be
by intent to achieve some particular purpose
.

Otherwise yes, you are doing it wrong.

 

no it doesn't ..stop putting rules where there should be none LOL my point was don't say everyone is doing it wrong..

as i said..if you are going for RL human..then yes follow the rules..if not then no..but saying EVERYONE is doing wrong is doing it wrong...

If people do something wrong, I say they're doing it wrong. I don't go in for this special snowflake junk.

If you're wrong, you're just wrong.

If you're going to deviate from correct anatomy - you need to understand anatomy first so you know how to deviate in order to get the effect it is you desire by that deviation. Take any art class and you'll figure that out, and why its the case.

- In fact that's a universal truth to almost any category of knowledge. You want to reject Socrates or Einstein or Darwin or whatever? You gotta understand them first - so you can work with specific points and break away with a purpose, rather than just be the fools in the Scopes monkey trial. ;) You want to be a Nascar racer - you gotta learn to drive right first, then you learn to speed like crazy so you don't smash into a wall.

 

Look at the work of professional illustrators who draw creatures for science fiction or fantasy - they tend to be masters of anatomy so that they can use effective deviation from anatomy to achieve -emphasis- of certain features and make the creature thereby -more- alien than a purely random scribble would be.

 

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Again, this thread is for human avatars who want to look human, please. 

And a guide inworld that comes with the shape is what I'm talking about because people are spending real money to be on SL to look cute or smexy, but it doesn't look cute when a human is adult-sized everywhere except the arms, which are about the size of a 6 to 10-year-old.  

A basic guide inworld for the shapes can't be that difficult to create or add.  I think it's a good suggestion. 

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Mayalily wrote:

 

A basic guide inworld for the shapes can't be that difficult to create or add.  I think it's a good suggestion. 

Make a web prim, have it load up the URL of my blog, and have fun handing it out to shape makers... :)

LL's ain't going to do it. They read this forum even less than the users do. So really - blogs are about the only way to spread the word. And either you can hand them the URL inworld or out.

 

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As an artist, I absolutely agree with this! 

Even 'anime' and 'chibi' (extremely deformed) artists must understand the basics of human anatomy to get the desired effects they are looking for... otherwise they just don't look lifelike at all.

You must look at the avatar all around and as a whole. If the entire avatar looks lifelike and 'real' aside from tiny little arms, I'm sorry, there's gonna be a problem and it's just not going to look right.

There are no rules to dictate how someone 'must' make thier avatar just like there are no rules to dictate what someone 'must' draw, but if i draw a very realistic picture of someone and only make, say, the arms look caricatured (as opposed to the whole body like in a typical caricature) it's going to trigger something in most people that says 'no', 'strange' and possibly even 'unsettling'.. see the uncanny valley for more details of what I mean.

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Not only that, I find that a lot of Guys have their heads way too small for the rest of their body. When I see someone like that it always eminds me of that alien/pawnshop owner guy in "Men in Black" whose head got blasted off but regrew within a few seconds... there's a point in that regrowth before it is a full head again that looks so ridiculous and so much like these guys in SL.  

Guys... check your noggins!   :-)

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i am saying we have a basic avatar we start with..a mold..if someone needs more than that more power to them...if someone wants to be accurate as they can be ..more power to them..

if someone wishes to bring in RL features then yes by all means do that..if that is what they are after..

but if someone decides to change it into something else..or stray those features you don't need a ruler to achieive that with the mold..there is a basic mold already..

are artists saying they need more than that to work from in sl?

my main point was this thread was posted as everyone is doing it wrong..my point is that not everyone is..

that kind of defeats the word creativity in sl..

i don't need a ruler to deform or stray from this model..that if someone says i did it wrong..that is only their opinion against mine with the way they choose to work with their mold vs mine..

if people are going for reality then ya follow that line..

if not then do what you feel like and ignore the ones trying to impose rules that they follow because they were told this is the only right way to do it..

trends get set all the time by people that show the rules can be broken and still work..they would get broken with more success if we were not always having rules tossed at us..

 

 

 

 



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Mayalily wrote:

Again, this thread is for human avatars who want to look human, please. 

And a guide inworld that comes with the shape is what I'm talking about because people are spending real money to be on SL to look cute or smexy, but it doesn't look cute when a human is adult-sized everywhere except the arms, which are about the size of a 6 to 10-year-old.  

A basic guide inworld for the shapes can't be that difficult to create or add.  I think it's a good suggestion. 

i can see where you are coming from now..

i just seen it switch from most to include  everyone and had to voice my opinion..only because there are a lot that try to impose a certain way on people that come here that are happy with what they have chosen..

some of these threads their have been some that get right down to the tiny pixlels and pick apart someones work..i mean thats a bit too far  when in world walking around  nobody is going to pay that much attention to  it..

i made my shape from my eye and never had anyone tell me i was amazon or too short or my arms were an inch to high or anything really..

i create with a tingle that runs down the back of my neck..it sounds goofy but thats how i know something is right..in photoshop when i am creating something or in one of my 3d programs or in my music and video editing or machinima or anything..if that tingle is not there then it's not right..

some i guess use a ruler..

some may have to use one where some just have an eye for what they feel is perfect..

rules will never change that and i don't care who their teacher is or what they told them..a ruler may be how the majority is doing it nowdays..until someone comes along and proves a better way and  i guess we get more amazing aliens  than we have now lol

then all the chatter willchange to say the old ways are the wrong ways now..start doing it like this :P

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Sorry if I was abrupt there Ceka, sorry I had to run out the door to do errands and enjoy a lunch.

Anyhow, no I understand the 'your world, your imagination part' of course, but see that is NOT the problem.  The problem is the default arms are made that way, so, thus, 10 million users can't have the same imagination to have short arms.  It's just the way the default arms are made in the first place. 

For some reason, arms seems to be the last thing for people to adjust or to even consider for some reason?, and also the head size as another poster suggested.   These two always seem to be overlooked; arm length, size of one's head, especially if they are using the default size as their height or fairly close to the default size for their height.   But I see far more avatars with short arms than I do small heads.   I think the arms seem to be the last thing people even consider.  

 

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Not only the arms.  Also they have too many muscles, or are too slender, or their skin is too perfect, or their heels are too high (mmmm, maybe not high enough?)  

 

i make my avatar the way I like.  If it looks good to me, it is my world and my imagination.  Some critic thinks my head is too small and my arms to short?  Touch.  Get a life.

 

 

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The longest head length achievable which looks good and doesn't look like Frankenstein monster would be about 28cm (head size : 100, head stretch : 78) and to get 8 head figure with that head body, body height should be 2.24m, however large portion of male avatars tend to like to be the tallest as possible! lol So it's inevitable their head looking too small.

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