How text-only viewers might be able to save us some of us from PBR

[Istelathis]

11 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

do they have mesh avatars that look as good as SL?

Yes!  There are even mirrors that work so that we can stare lovingly at our reflections.. okay, I'm not sure if they reflect the avatars and I don't have enough time to look for one at the moment.  I think they reflect avatars though.

 

 

Look at all of them sheople, oblivious of the disaster of PBR.  We must save them, before it is too late!  

 

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Gabriele Graves said:

I hate that you are making me defend LL.

It is DEFINITELY OK if someone defends LL.

If it helps: if anyone is ever defending LL in the name of "truth and accuracy", I don't see how someone else could complain about such defense, unless of course they merely cannot stand to see LL defended at all, ever.

 

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But are really crappy at implementing it intelligently and coherently.

I think this is unfair and inaccurate overall.  I hate that you are making me defend LL.

I don't like defending "the big guy" in a dispute...the 'big guys' being the ones with the power, and we residents are along for the ride with less power.  But even worse, for me, is placing blame where none is due. That is the greater injustice for me and is why I keep defending LL on this.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think this is unfair and inaccurate overall.

Sorry, I stand by it. Points to LL for bettering the performance of their first PBR viewer a month or two after its initial release, but there are still issues with the implementation -- a lack of decent documentation, screwing up the application of materials in-world, the failure to update more than one EEP, to name just the most salient.

There are plenty of tech-savvy people, even PBR enthusiasts, who have opined that they rushed this out and put it in place poorly.

5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

After all the hate that has been directed towards them, I'm also extremely glad we still have them, all of them.  None are getting paid for doing it, they clearly don't get much in the way of appreciation (at least lately) and I don't believe that SL would have survived this long without them and I think LL know that.  They could all have said sod this and closed up shop over this and many other things in the past.  We are collectively very fortunate.

Agreed.

I think FS really needs to improve the performance of their viewer in their next release, but I give them full credit for the work they've put into this. And the same goes for the other viewers that have adopted and/or responded to PBR, notably Alchemy and CoolVL.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But even worse, for me, is placing blame where none is due. That is the greater injustice for me and is why I keep defending LL on this.

So, you're claiming that LL were not responsible for forcing a broken half finished abortion of PBR on us, that it was the work of some mysterious unknown party?

Maybe they were Alien Gurus of the Yogi Bear Trance'n'Mental Sedimentation Cult?

 

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

if anyone is ever defending LL in the name of "truth and accuracy", I don't see how someone else could complain about such defense

So far there seems to be NO danger of any LL-Defenders making use of "truth and accuracy", so it's ok to complain about them. Thanks for your support.

 

Edited August 12 by Zalificent Corvinus

[Gabriele Graves]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sorry, I stand by it. Points to LL for bettering the performance of their first PBR viewer a month or two after its initial release, but there are still issues with the implementation -- a lack of decent documentation, screwing up the application of materials in-world, the failure to update more than one EEP, to name just the most salient.

There are plenty of tech-savvy people, even PBR enthusiasts, who have opined that they rushed this out and put it in place poorly.

No company is perfect at software updates, just look at Microsoft and many other larger companies.  Could it have been better, yes definitely, it could also have been a whole lot worse but I wouldn't describe it as crappy.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Gabriele Graves said:

No company is perfect at software updates, just look at Microsoft and many other larger companies.  Could it have been better, yes definitely, it could also have been a whole lot worse but I wouldn't describe it as crappy.

Well, if this is about semantics, I'm happy to comply.

"Somewhat poorly considered and executed"?

And of course companies get it wrong, even really large ones. Meta's "Horizons" or whatever they called it was an utter disaster that cost literally billions of dollars, and the new "X" has been tanking ever since Musk bought it and removed and/or adjusted many of its features.

I wish I had the sense that LL was listening a bit more closely to the criticisms. Other than the aforementioned improvement in performance (for which, again, they deserve props: they did a good job), I haven't seen an awful lot of response. They seem to have got bored with this, and are rushing on to have fun with their next shinies: WebRTC and glTF scenes.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

No company is perfect at software updates

True, but, when a company's track record is WORSE that EA, then it's time to print a few dozen letters starting with:

"Dear _______________________,

You are now subject to summary termination of employment, without notice, severance pay or references, on disciplinary grounds for Gross Incompetence and/or Gross Misconduct ( delete as applicable ), effective immediately..."

 

[Gabriele Graves]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Well, if this is about semantics, I'm happy to comply.

It's not, just seems very harsh but I wouldn't want you to change the way you express yourself for me.

[Gabriele Graves]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

True, but, when a company's track record is WORSE that EA, then it's time to print a few dozen letters starting with:

"Dear _______________________,

You are now subject to summary termination of employment, without notice, severance pay or references, on disciplinary grounds for Gross Incompetence and/or Gross Misconduct ( delete as applicable ), effective immediately..."

 

This I have to dispute.  There is a reason they are known as Evil Arts, it's not by accident, it's strategy.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

This I have to dispute.  There is a reason they are known as Evil Arts, it's not by accident, it's strategy.

That only makes it worse, being worse, by accident, than Evil Arts are on purpose..

[Gabriele Graves]

To find the positive in all this: I suppose that the severity of a lot of people response to this release is a sign that people truly care about SL,  that I am also thankful for regardless of whether those responses are an accurate portrayal of things or not.

EDIT: One positive thought does not make me a positivity cultist, just in case...

Edited August 12 by Gabriele Graves

[Scylla Rhiadra]

16 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

To find the positive in all this: I suppose that the severity of a lot of people response to this release is a sign that people truly care about SL,  that I am also thankful for regardless of whether those responses are an accurate portrayal of things or not.

To find another positive -- whether or not one thinks the implementation of PBR was botched -- or indeed, even necessary -- it is an index of the fact that LL has a long range plan for SL, rather than just maintaining it until it finally collapses from entropy.

PBR, and the switch to compulsory deferred rendering, isn't just (or even, i think, mainly) about making SL "look better": the introduction of better reflections in metalic textures and mirrors hardly justifies this much pain. It's about setting the stage for further developments down the road.

And knowing that LL is thinking in those terms is comforting.

Edited August 12 by Scylla Rhiadra
Grammar

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I'm not so sure it's that simple, we don't know what motivates everyone and for some they may be feeling a sense of loss and grief.  People express themselves in way we can't always appreciate.

Thank you for expressing this: I think you've got it exactly right.

I think it's easy to underestimate the impact of this on people who have come to really rely upon SL for socialization. For a great many, it's not just another "video game." The longevity of groups and places like Virtual Ability is a testimony to that.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Rather hilariously, here's a review by Inara of a new exhibition, "It's All Blinn-Phong to Me."

Someone has a sense of humour about all of this!

https://modemworld.me/2024/08/12/its-all-bling-phong-to-me-in-second-life/

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Rather hilariously, here's a review by Inara of a new exhibition, "It's All Blinn-Phong to Me."

Someone has a sense of humour about all of this!

https://modemworld.me/2024/08/12/its-all-bling-phong-to-me-in-second-life/

I'm glad she was able to do so, unlike you who felt the need to point out there are other games we can turn to, all due to your inconvenience.

Edited August 12 by Luna Bliss

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think I need to go make a nice pic.

You available to model?

Sure, but first it's really really important that I tell someone on the internet that they ate delusional and can't see beyond themselves because their head is too far up their backside to see anything but feces

[Blush Bravin]

I love the closing paragraph from Inara's blog.

It’s an elegant, simple statement; as Eta notes: it’s not profound, it’s not deep – but it it is illustrative. Just because the terms are new and the technology is changing, there’s no need to be frightened or object to what’s going on. SL is still a place where we can express ourselves (physically and artfully). So just chill, have fun – and enjoy!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I love the closing paragraph from Inara's blog.

It’s an elegant, simple statement; as Eta notes: it’s not profound, it’s not deep – but it it is illustrative. Just because the terms are new and the technology is changing, there’s no need to be frightened or object to what’s going on. SL is still a place where we can express ourselves (physically and artfully). So just chill, have fun – and enjoy!

Interestingly, I have heard very little from within the *coughs* "art community" about all of this. Which is weird: you'd expect that photographers and artists would be on top of changes to SL's visuals.

I actually sent a sort of "proposal" to a gallery owner I know today about how we might be able to use PBR for in-world exhibitions. It wasn't a "prospectus," just floating some ideas. But it's odd that galleries and their artists don't leverage materials, new ways of lighting, and so forth.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

they are frightened

I truly believe some are.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said:

I love the closing paragraph from Inara's blog.

I wasn't impressed.

Quote

And that’s something of the “message” behind this art exhibition: don’t worry about all the terms; they are either just new ways of expressing what you’ve been doing all this time, or indicating there are new ways of doing things you’re always done, whilst offering new little tweaks you can make to things.

An "Art" exhibit, about Blinn-Phong, supposedly telling us not to worry about the change, that features PBR, that's basically an insult to everyone who dislikes the change or who is being driven out of SL by these "modern little tweaks".

I don't know who is to blame for the wording, the "Artiste" or the Blogger, . And I really don't care which of them is to blame.

 

And people wonder why I have so little respect for "Artistes" & "Bloggers".

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

And people wonder why I have so little respect for "Artistes"

/me looks shocked and scandalized.

Thank GOD I'm not one of THOSE!

[WeFlossDaily]

10 hours ago, Orwar said:

Would a text-based viewer come with an AI describing the scene around you to let you interact with the 3D space in text?

I don't like AI very much. But I'm not current, hip, or with it when it comes to a lot of stuff. =]

[Ayashe Ninetails]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Interestingly (and happily) I haven't noticed a real exodus from within my own circles, which are comprised mostly of non-techies -- the sort of people who have often been impacted by performance issues, and don't care all that much about visuals. I don't doubt for a moment that numbers are dropping somewhat -- it's been, as you note, a question of long term attrition rather than dramatic epoch-making migrations.

But the prognosis isn't all doom and gloom, I think.

Oh it's very gradual. And slow. Just a trickle. I think perhaps some who are less invested (newer accounts, no long-term friends, etc.) are super, super casual with it and will disappear when RL or some other game becomes more interesting. I've also noticed that some of the people I've helped in the past with makeovers no longer log in much, if at all. Sometimes I've witnessed someone log out in frustration right there in the middle of helping them with their head or skin or something (very new people - totally understandable, really). Or a group of friends stops logging in entirely - perhaps to go play something else together. Who knows.

People leave for all kinds of reasons all the time. How many are coming in to replace them is the real question. I have no idea. I haven't run across a frustrated naked newbie in a skin or head store (my usual makeover "customer") in forever.

Text viewers might help some of them if hanging out with friends and chatting are their preferred activities. Problem is - do they know those exist?

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

31 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

they are frightened

I truly believe some are.

To quote a great Jedi:  "Fear leads to Hate, and Hate leads to the Dark Side of the Force."