The End Of An Era and what was a wonderful, enlightened virtual world....

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

You're assuming most even know that some games require a high-end computer. Many play these browser-based games or games that run on lower-end PC's.

So I don't see designating SL as a game or not as having any relevance in PC choice (or expectation when one already has a PC).

Besides, SL really does not require what we label as a 'gaming computer' -- we've had numerous people post on the forum lately that they run PBR just fine on lower-end computers.

That's maybe the 53% who aren't complaining because they are bots too busy at the bottom of the sea playing a game within a game/virtual reality to notice their loss of FPS.

[Theresa Tennyson]

3 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

Again I ask. If this was really the case, then why not block 6.6.17 like was done with previous releases?

OBJECTION! Asked and answered.

18 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

It wouldn't be fine to de-facto hardware ban them, no matter how few there are.

 

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

You're assuming most even know that some games require a high-end computer. Many play these browser-based games or games that run on lower-end PC's.

So I don't see designating SL as a game or not as having any relevance in PC choice (or expectation when one already has a PC).

Besides, SL really does not require what we label as a 'gaming computer' -- we've had numerous people post on the forum lately that they run PBR just fine on lower-end computers.

You have to remember that we're talking about the lowest common denominator when we talk about these types of people.

We want the average new user punching "gaming pc" into their Amazon search, not "mini PC" or even just "computer".

The question of "how can I optimize my SL experience as inexpensively as possible" should be a more specialized and direct question for invested users. 

[Luna Bliss]

28 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

You have to remember that we're talking about the lowest common denominator when we talk about these types of people.

We want the average new user punching "gaming pc" into their Amazon search, not "mini PC" or even just "computer".

The question of "how can I optimize my SL experience as inexpensively as possible" should be a more specialized and direct question for invested users. 

I would think a new user discovered SL via google or through friends and  then would attempt to log in.  If it doesn't work they check the specs and go with spending as little $ as possible if cost is an issue.

Whether something is called 'gaming pc' or 'mini pc' or 'computer' in a search doesn't factor in.

Edited August 16 by Luna Bliss

[Istelathis]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

You have to remember that we're talking about the lowest common denominator when we talk about these types of people.

We want the average new user punching "gaming pc" into their Amazon search, not "mini PC" or even just "computer".

The question of "how can I optimize my SL experience as inexpensively as possible" should be a more specialized and direct question for invested users. 

Not to mention, with cloud based computing a lot of people are now getting computers that are just absolute rubbish in general.  A lot of these computers barely function, they are not made to run very much outside of a browser.   They have become more or less dumb terminals, a lot will not even allow the user to install software.

 

This new shift in computing, really does need to be pointed out, repeatedly.  Unless Second Life plans to give an option to stream their platform, much like Genshin Impact does for a hefty fee (it would probably be cheaper to just buy a low budget gaming PC over the course of a year)

 

[Arielle Popstar]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yet I know of other landlords having no problem.  Again...listening to the most squeaky wheel or the ones who made it to the forum is not a good strategy!

Because maybe it is bad for business for a landlord to say things are not good and make people wonder whether they should rent from someone whose land holdings are not overly stable.

[Paul Hexem]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I would think a new user discover SL via google or through friends and attempts to log in. If it doesn't work they check the specs and go with spending as little $ as possible if cost is an issue.

Whether something is called 'gaming pc' or 'mini pc' or 'computer' in a search doesn't factor in.

It's all about setting expectations. People expected they could just use whatever computer and turn off ALM, and now we're seeing the result of that.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

Not to mention, with cloud based computing a lot of people are now getting computers that are just absolute rubbish in general.  A lot of these computers barely function, they are not made to run very much outside of a browser.   They have become more or less dumb terminals, a lot will not even allow the user to install software.

 

This new shift in computing, really does need to be pointed out, repeatedly.  Unless Second Life plans to give an option to stream their platform, much like Genshin Impact does for a hefty fee (it would probably be cheaper to just buy a low budget gaming PC over the course of a year)

 

I pointed this out earlier - the niche that low-end "computers" previously filled have largely been filled by phones. It's similar to how low/mid range standalone cameras are an endangered species. It makes a lot more sense to have the Lab work on a phone-OS viewer than one that runs on low-end Windows/iOS hardware. And this is coming from someone who uses a flip phone.

[AmeliaJ08]

48 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

On my 1070 I lose 20-50% framerate. I guess some cards do better and some worse and it seems to make little difference on what generation GPU it is. It is why when I had an opportunity to buy a 3080 card last week I decided to forego it for now because I had little idea whether it really would be any better then what I already get. Too much of a gamble to mu mind to upgrade for the sake of SL at this point.

It'll be better. A 2080 is faster than a 1080 in SL, I can confirm that much.

There's diminishing returns but more brute raster performance means better performance, at the very least the 3080 will have 10GB (ideally get the 12GB though) VRAM which SL loves, less texture swapping.

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

You have to remember that we're talking about the lowest common denominator when we talk about these types of people.

We want the average new user punching "gaming pc" into their Amazon search, not "mini PC" or even just "computer".

The question of "how can I optimize my SL experience as inexpensively as possible" should be a more specialized and direct question for invested users. 

Has LL updated their minimum and recommended system requirements yet? If not then new users will probably think those will be fine. Noone to blame but LL themselves if they get new or even existing users thinking they can get by with what LL suggests

[Paul Hexem]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

Has LL updated their minimum and recommended system requirements yet? If not then new users will probably think those will be fine. Noone to blame but LL themselves if they get new or even existing users thinking they can get by with what LL suggests

That's something I think we've all complained about quite a lot. LL's policy of "leave all documentation and support to the users" doesn't work when it's something like that.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Paul Hexem said:

That's something I think we've all complained about quite a lot. LL's policy of "leave all documentation and support to the users" doesn't work when it's something like that.

Yeah so is it any wonder and can new and existing users be blamed for kicking up a fuss when LL forces software changes they didn't  prepare them for?

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Yeah so is it any wonder and can new and existing users be blamed for kicking up a fuss when LL forces software changes they didn't  prepare them for?

It depends on if they kick up a fuss about literally everything and always say they're going to leave but never do.

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

It depends on if they kick up a fuss about literally everything and always say they're going to leave but never do.

You always say that but really how many have left regardless when you weren't looking? SL would not be the first grid to replace leaving users with bots to keep the concurrency numbers stable.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

You always say that but really how many have left regardless when you weren't looking? SL would not be the first grid to replace leaving users with bots to keep the concurrency numbers stable.

Learned this a long time ago:

1) The people who announce they're leaving Second Life usually return, often within a few weeks.

2) The people who threaten to leave Second Life never do, no matter how much everyone else wishes they would.

3) The ones who do leave Second Life? Never. Say. Anything.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

16 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

It'll be better. A 2080 is faster than a 1080 in SL, I can confirm that much.

There's diminishing returns but more brute raster performance means better performance, at the very least the 3080 will have 10GB (ideally get the 12GB though) VRAM which SL loves, less texture swapping.

I had not heard good reports of the 20** series so was bypassing them. A friend mentioned that I did want a 12GB for doing any AI work but they do start running pretty dear.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

Not to mention, with cloud based computing a lot of people are now getting computers that are just absolute rubbish in general.  A lot of these computers barely function, they are not made to run very much outside of a browser.   They have become more or less dumb terminals, a lot will not even allow the user to install software.

Such as "Chromebooks".  We see fewer posts for people asking about using them for Second Life lately.

[AmeliaJ08]

26 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Has LL updated their minimum and recommended system requirements yet? If not then new users will probably think those will be fine. Noone to blame but LL themselves if they get new or even existing users thinking they can get by with what LL suggests

Not really but Firestorm are at least pretty honest about the minimum requirements on their site.

LL just helpfully tell us we need OpenGL 3.2 support lol. Great, I'll dust off the GTX 260...

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Learned this a long time ago:

1) The people who announce they're leaving Second Life usually return, often within a few weeks.

2) The people who threaten to leave Second Life never do, no matter how much everyone else wishes they would.

3) The ones who do leave Second Life? Never. Say. Anything.

But then there's likely quite a few like me who start significantly curtailing the amount of time they do spend in SL. There have been a number of people on the forums alone who mentioned that they are down to one or two logins per week from their previous daily login routine.

For myself, I'm giving up hope that the Lab is ever going to do anything with the inventory, clothing, dressing, marketplace that will decrease the difficulty in doing those things. All they want to focus on is making things look prettier with wind light, eep and now PBR. None of those were something that I was particularly concerned about to begin with. And I don't think I'm the only one in that regard. 

I'm really starting to question whether to bother staying in this grid since it seems to be a lost cause as to what they consider a feature worth working on.

[AmeliaJ08]

10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I had not heard good reports of the 20** series so was bypassing them. A friend mentioned that I did want a 12GB for doing any AI work but they do start running pretty dear.

 

I mean nobody really likes the 20 series, it was too expensive and the first generation of ray tracing cards but none of that is relevant now or to SL. In terms of raster performance it's better, faster, stronger, superior in every way. Faster clock speeds, faster memory, more bandwidth, more shaders, more cache and all squeezed into a tinier space.

Just not good enough but SL doesn't really care about any of that stuff. I'm just saying that every generation of Nvidia silicon is faster than the last, even in SL. There's not much point buying brand new best of the best stuff for it though since SL sucks - comparatively speaking - on everything but you will see higher frame rates on a 2080 or 3080 than a 1080.

 

Edited August 16 by AmeliaJ08

[Scylla Rhiadra]

43 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

when we talk about these types of people

I do so love conversations in which we talk about the "types of people" we think are "desirable" for SL.

 

44 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

We want the average new user punching "gaming pc" into their Amazon search, not "mini PC" or even just "computer".

Why? Because they're more like you, perhaps?

[BriannaLovey]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I do so love conversations in which we talk about the "types of people" we think are "desirable" for SL.

 

Why? Because they're more like you, perhaps?

This guy thinks you need a gaming PC to play Minecraft; best to not take his opinion too seriously.

[Gabriele Graves]

Not all 3D software that perform better with gaming level hardware are in fact games.  The 3D mesh creation packages for example are not games.

Edited August 16 by Gabriele Graves

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

48 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

when we talk about these types of people

I do so love conversations in which we talk about the "types of people" we think are "desirable" for SL.

IKR? Those types of people, who talk that way about others, are..oh, wait.

[Gabriele Graves]

6 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I mean nobody really likes the 20 series, it was too expensive and the first generation of ray tracing cards but none of that is relevant now or to SL. In terms of raster performance it's better, faster, stronger, superior in every way.

Just not good enough but SL doesn't really care about any of that stuff. I'm just saying that every generation of Nvidia silicon is faster than the last, even in SL. There's not much point buying brand new best of the best stuff for it though since SL sucks - comparitively speaking - on everything but you will see higher frame rates on a 2080 or 3080 than a 1080.

 

The GPU matters much more now than it used to and so the difference in performance between Nvidia GPUs is now more pronounced than it was when the viewers were more CPU bound.

Edited August 16 by Gabriele Graves