Update from Patch Linden on "Spicy Content"

[PheebyKatz]

10 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Unlike what happens in G/M-rated main land, the Zindra continent got pretty much no abandoned land plot (or they are so small, that they won't be possible to sell: the few you can find are just left overs of parcel resizing/reselling at smaller sizes, due to the land price and tier levels).

Plus, land in Zindra is extremely costly: for a parcel, on flat land, far from water bodies and roads, you will usually have to pay between L$10 and L$20 per square meter, while the same type of parcel can easily be found under L$1 per square meter in Mature main land !

Makes sense to me. Land where you can host an actual adult business and crank out some money is going to cost way more than a place where it's simply okay to walk around naked in your yard at home, provided it's up in the sky and you have no teleport thingy to it from the ground. Way I see it, all A-rated land is potentially lucrative commercially zoned land, so to speak. People would be fools not to wring every L$ possible out of it if they have it, because someone else will once they get it.

Edited June 28 by PheebyKatz

[Sid Nagy]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Is LL gonna give me a 4096 on Belli Adult Lite? I don't think so. Everyone will be restricted to having their Adult Lite bordello on a 1024. Sure have your Belli Adult Lite, but Zindra needs to be completed as well

Assumptions.
We haven't seen even one syllable of an official plan.
And of course there isn't a one solution for all.

[brodiac90]

LL are not getting rid of Zindra. Those paying tier would flip their lids if anything happend to the high value of their land. The most likely sceanrio is that Zindra will stay the same and they will add something new. You see the same situation with the old and new Linden homes. Despite how popular the new homes are, there are still people who prefer the older style for whatever reason. 

As for age verification. It keeps cropping up and getting mentioned so I suspect it is on the horizon. If that's the case then I personally think LL should contract it out to a EU company that specialises in EU GDPR standards since that's the most likely place their going to run foul of any laws since EU standards require more than US ones. Like they've mentioned, the system will need to have a way of verifying ID without storing any personal data to reassure people's security / privacy concerns. 

Age verification doesn't bother me - in fact, I've already said in the Child TOS changes disucssions that if those who used child avatars were required to have more infomation on file it might actually deter the bad actors, which can only be a good thing. I appreciate not everyone feels the same about their own accounts though, and obviously it's different if you're not using a child avatar. 

Edited June 28 by brodiac90

[Paul Hexem]

13 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

The unfinished continents bug the hell out of me. How can they just leave them like that!? just finish them!

I'm pretty sure "finish what you start" is against a company policy at LL. 

[Innula Zenovka]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

LOL, less attractive? Zindra is the most desirable location in all of Second Life. You could triple the size of Zindra and it would fill up tomorrow.

And yet you want to see a whole new adult continent? What makes this new adult continent more wholesome and attractive than Zindra?

Wait I know why.

Because LL will sit on the whole place so tight that it will squeeze all the "real" adult activity out of it, it will be adult "lite" the the uptight masses.

Zindra is attractive because it's Adult mainland.    Unless you particularly like glow, however, or roads that have region crossings running down their centre, it's hardly attractive as an environment.    

I think a whole new adult continent would look a lot more attractive than Zindra because I know what Bellisseria looks like, and because I think  that an Adult version of something like Bellisseria (not identical, not least because this new project will include commercial areas), with LDPW builds and landscaping, and an enforceable covenant, will be more attractive than Adult mainland, for the same reasons many people -- particularly new residents -- prefer Bellisseria to mainland

[NaomiLocket]

It's not like the private region barons collectively haven't already for years solved the land price issue for startups. Plenty of adults clubs pilot outside of Zindra. Some of the near full size Zindra spots consider rebuilding out of the continent. They might change their mind, they might not. If they can't make it work in the margin anyway then a high landprice works against the concept. You'd have to have a pretty solid hustle other than under utilized afk dolls and donations.

[AmeliaJ08]

8 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Zindra is attractive because it's Adult mainland.    Unless you particularly like glow, however, or roads that have region crossings running down their centre, it's hardly attractive as an environment.    

I think a whole new adult continent would look a lot more attractive than Zindra because I know what Bellisseria looks like, and because I think  that an Adult version of something like Bellisseria (not identical, not least because this new project will include commercial areas), with LDPW builds and landscaping, and an enforceable covenant, will be more attractive than Adult mainland, for the same reasons many people -- particularly new residents -- prefer Bellisseria to mainland

Yeah Zindra is an absolute mess as far as mainland goes. It doesn't have much of the organic growth of the older continents, those stupid roads that make it impossible to really enjoy as mainland, endless land flipping, unfinished and generally just sorta abandoned/neglected feeling even by SL mainland standards.

It does have some kinda-interesting-if-you're-an-SL-geek quirks about it with the water heights I suppose?

I get its purpose and I'm sure it fulfils it pretty well given very few people even want to explore and I think Zindra was built with this in mind, even if subconsciously. It is a little anachronistic though... private regions seem to do everything Zindra wants to do so what is the benefit of it being a continent?

It's an argument that could be levelled at most of mainland though to some degree given people largely don't take advantage of an interconnected grid. Many users aren't even aware of the interconnected mainland grid, the number of even older users I have seen surprised if I take them on a tour of Heterocera is testament to this... it feels like people who appreciate this are from another time, I know for my first few years in SL I had no real idea what the deal with mainland was really, I just TP'd in and out of specific spots and the fact it was all a connected grid that could be explored by vehicle etc wasn't very obvious.

 

 

Edited June 28 by AmeliaJ08

[Clem Marques]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Remove all adult content, Second Life will be dead within 6 months.

6 months? That's pretty generous. My guess is that it'd die much, much sooner if all adult content was suddenly removed.

[NaomiLocket]

11 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

[...]private regions seem to do everything Zindra wants to do so what is the benefit of it being a continent?[...]

Cost over relevant time period, and what features you do or do not get depending on where you sit with the level of ownership you've taken on or been granted. Regions are expensive unless you're not footing the bill and only footing what you want to. But if you were renting then there would be a total spend over time cross over. With increases to premium you'd might have more leeway with renting than before, not sure. I haven't played with numbers, just spouting generalised concepts.

[Henri Beauchamp]

23 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

Unless you particularly like glow, however, or roads that have region crossings running down their centre, it's hardly attractive as an environment. 

14 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Yeah Zindra is an absolute mess as far as mainland goes. It doesn't have much of the organic growth of the older continents, those stupid roads that make it impossible to really enjoy as mainland, endless land flipping, unfinished and generally just sorta abandoned/neglected feeling even by SL mainland standards.

Thus why everyone caring about improving Adult support in SL should vote (I told you, I'm pretty good in the perseverance department 😛)...

Edited June 28 by Henri Beauchamp

[AmeliaJ08]

5 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Thus why everyone caring about improving Adult support in SL should vote (I told you, I'm pretty good in the perseverance department 😛)...

That is a good proposal, voted! equality for Zindra

[Clem Marques]

2 hours ago, NaomiLocket said:

For sale flag density is too high to consider it the most desirable.

While transactionally beneficial technically if it were they actually change hands quickly, repeatedly changing hands and no development really being done would also describe low value land that has no real desire for.

Granted though it has a lot of dot presence in some places without speaking to the quality of the presence.If you look hard enough you can find built up and developed areas with less sell-off and wait.

Sorry, but this is an unfair comparison.

Don't be fooled by the fact that there are less "For sale" symbols there. Moderate/General rated Mainland has VAST amounts of abandoned land! That does not show up on the map. Some regions are almost fully empty, even. More often than not, parcels for sale are either waterfront or adjacent to roads.

Meanwhile Zindra very rarely has any abandoned land. If someone abandons a parcel it is either instantly purchased via a support ticket if the parcel is very tiny, or instantly auctioned off. Zindra is pretty much fully occupied, unlike the Moderate/General continents.

The fact that there are lots of "For sale" symbols in Zindra is also good. Each one of those parcels is owned by someone who pays tier and generates revenue for LL. Cant say the same about the vast amounts of empty Moderate and General regions.

And if Adult land were not a profitable, viable business for land barons and resellers, why would they pay tier for so many different parcels in an attempt to resell them? It clearly sells enough to, at the very least, cover their SL costs.

A-rated parcels are also significantly more expensive than Moderate and General ones on average. And they sell very quickly if the price is right. More revenue for LL with each sale, and for the land barons too.

There is clearly a lot of demand for Adult land. No wonder LL is considering the creation of more adult regions. That business decision on its own already proves that Adult land is very profitable.

Edited June 28 by Clem Marques

[Zalificent Corvinus]

41 minutes ago, NaomiLocket said:

Land gating BLAH BLAH BLAH bots BLAH BLAH BLAH value of the land BLAH BLAH BLAH abandoned BLAH BLAH BLAH some person standing in the way BLAH BLAH BLAH no desirable value BLAH BLAH BLAH  skin in the game BLAH BLAH BLAH price I don't find reasonable anywhere else BLAH BLAH BLAH

BLAH BLAH BLAH Zindra's roads are ass. BLAH BLAH BLAH roads on the rest of mainland BLAH BLAH BLAH improved the roads BLAH BLAH BLAH  decent roads BLAH BLAH BLAH land price fantasy.

 

Outstanding!

The amount of clueless over-entitled nonsense in your post should be preserved as an educational exhibit in a Museum dedicated to showing future generations why thinking is important, and how not to do it.

 

You prattle on about how the value of land you don't own, that others who do own it are 0ffering for sale is that of abandoned land, but that's a bad joke, Zindra has almost NO abandoned land, it gets resold by LL almost as fast as it appears.

You blather on about how the land isn't worth anything, BECAUSE IT'S NOT USED THE WAY YOU WOULD LIKE IT USED. Not your concern, not your business, reel your neck in.

You accuse anyone disputing your clueless blather of "having skin in the game", I don't own ANY Zindran land, not ONE square meter. But unlike you, I have paid attention to land prices, and how the market works, both on Zindra, and on the "nice" continents.

Here's a heads up. G & M rated continents, are on average more than 20% abandoned land, owned by Gov Linden, because NOBODY wants that land.

G rated drek, sells for about 0.6 L$/m, M rated drek sells for maybe 1.1 L$/m on a good day., A rated Zindra drek, sells for anywhere from 6 - 10 L$/m.

 

The second haldf of your foam-at-the-mouth blather goes on and on and on about those un-used strips of tarmac textured prim waste, "roads".

REALITY CHECK, most SecondLifers don't CARE about roads, Most Zindrans certainly don't. As for Zindra's "low quality roads" that's not Zindra, that's Kama City, which is only part of the continent, and for the most part, the least desirable part.

 

That whole "Must have moar roads" battle cry is the sound of less than 100 over-entitled fanatics in SL, everyone else just teleports from place to place.

 

So, your entire foam-at-the-mouth blather basically boils down to

"I hate the people who own the land I can't afford to buy, that's not used the way I want, for building moar roads that almost nobody will ever use, because they are IN MAH WAY!"

 

Utterly laughable, 0/10 for effort, come back when you have a clue how any of it actually works.

[NaomiLocket]

6 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Sorry, but this is an unfair comparison.

Don't be fooled by the fact that there are less "For sale" symbols there. Moderate/General rated Mainland has VAST amounts of abandoned land! That does not show up on the map. Some regions are almost fully empty, even. More often than not, parcels for sale are either waterfront or adjacent to roads.

I said what I said knowing full well. I live in two parcels on moderate mainland. I've seen the abandoned land. Bought some. Seen others buy some. Seen some leave without staying power. Seen flippers come in. The works. I stand by what I said for the reasons and detail that I said them.

Prove to me that Zindra has demand and value by only having 10% of its land up for sale. High demand low supply. Show it. Not everyone needs a business level club to have some level of spicy times. The rating for many being on the continent would just be a convenience. And the infrequent need lends to tourists. It does compare because it is small and the weight of its land sale says "I don't want it", or they are trying to take advantage of a mechanical feature of land sale like the spiffing britt roasts Steam. We've had mainlanders out our way try a stunt and find themselves out of the area.

If you have land constantly for sale instead of intermittently - you do not have value. You just have flipping or no stale land that doesn't move. Which is an equivalence in value. With value comes utility.

[NaomiLocket]

27 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Thus why everyone caring about improving Adult support in SL should vote (I told you, I'm pretty good in the perseverance department 😛)...

I don't live there and the market and design leaves me no desire to move in presently. But I've read through some of the interested parties takes and done my bit like voting some of them. That's the best I'll offer for now.

[Clem Marques]

7 minutes ago, NaomiLocket said:

It does compare because it is small and the weight of its land sale says "I don't want it"

No. It means "this is profitable."

[NaomiLocket]

1 minute ago, Clem Marques said:

No. It means "this is profitable."

Only if people buy it. It's been a sea of red for years. Hardly screams profitable.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, NaomiLocket said:

Land gating by holding land and speculating in the hope that the value would increase, or they'd have the means to enforce it should the Lab bother to complete the continent is a recipe for a hard lesson unless they happen to be big enough with bots to snag it. Otherwise the value of the land is the same as the base value of abandoned. It's just some person standing in the way. If it doesn't move for months it has no desirable value. If it was desired it would be in the hands of someone that would use it. It's "full" because it's bloody tiny. Being tiny and the high density of for sale means there's no where for the market to move. People talking it up are likely people with skin in the game by holding land there. But I don't so I have no incentive to hype it, or to consider buying any at a price I don't find reasonable anywhere else. Tier gates are paid regardless of holding land or not if you really want to. There's a separation between owning the limited license and filling it with land quota.

Like I said before in more polite terms, Zindra's roads are ass. That's less value than half the roads on the rest of mainland. Only thing it has going for it is the rating alone. Now if they improved the roads better than half of the rest of mainlands, then you'd at least have decent roads and rating. But again, currently the size of Zindra doesn't compare to the size of the other continents. The main concern people that feel that Zindra has higher value is simply dumping several times the size of Zindra elsewhere for the same rating erodes their land price fantasy.

What exactly is wrong with the roads? Is it because the sim borders often go down the middle of the road?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

30 minutes ago, NaomiLocket said:

With increases to premium you'd might have more leeway with renting than before, not sure. I haven't played with numbers, just spouting generalised concepts.

I on the other hand have played with the numbers, I've made several posts correcting the "haven't played with numbers" types who make insane claims about Land Business in SL.

Take full regions, for example, a full estate region is what, 230 a month? A Zindran full region is 165. That's a hell of a difference.

A lot of the "for sale" stickers all over Zindra are in fact "for sale or rent". You want to live on an A rated 4096? Renting on a private estate region is costing you 1/16th of the full region price PLUS the Region owners profit margin which also covers the costs of not having full occupancy on all their regions. Even if they "bought down" the region, you are still talking 1/16th of a couple of hundred.

 

A Zindran Land Baron, can rent you a 4096 for about $16 a month, and still make a healthy profit, that's LESS than the $22 a month you'd have to pay in Tier to own it your self, never mind the need for you to pay for Premium as well to own it.

There's a reason Zindra has no abandoned land.

It's TOO DAMN PROFITABLE to leave it unowned.

 

[Paul Hexem]

22 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

The fact that there are lots of "For sale" symbols in Zindra is also good.

Depends on your definition of good.

23 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

Each one of those parcels is owned by someone who pays tier and generates revenue for LL.

Good for LL, yes. Good for residents or good in the sense of being used... Not so much. They're almost all owned by speculators and land barons who jack up the prices to unrealistic numbers so they stay empty and for sale for months or years at a time.

[Clem Marques]

1 minute ago, NaomiLocket said:

3 minutes ago, Clem Marques said:

No. It means "this is profitable."

Only if people buy it. It's been a sea of red for years. Hardly screams profitable.

Land barons would not sink hundreds of USD into paying tier if flipping/reselling adult parcels were not profitable. They are the easiest and fastest parcels to resell at the moment. The only reason those parcels are not selling faster is due to their prices. I have personally sold lots of adult parcels recently. By dropping the price a bit I was able to sell some of them almost instantly. Good luck doing that with General land, or Moderate. (Blake Sea, protected waterfront, historic areas and Nautilus being the few exceptions)

[NaomiLocket]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Take full regions, for example, a full estate region is what, 230 a month? A Zindran full region is 165. That's a hell of a difference.

Yes it is a heck of a difference. That's why I included hinting at estate level management, and only renting part of the estate whether you are given estate management or not. I've been on an estate managers list before in the past. But thanks for some of the numbers at least.

[Henri Beauchamp]

Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said:

What exactly is wrong with the roads? Is it because the sim borders often go down the middle of the road?

This, and the fact that the mole(s) who built the roads in Zindra, apparently did not know (or care) about the trick allowing vehicles not to dip into the road at each region border/crossing: the said trick is simply to use for the road a primitive that crosses and expands over the sim border: this way, the vehicle is kept on that prim during the sim crossing, objects positions shifting in the viewer (objects positions being relative to the sim absolute position in many places in the renderer), etc...

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Depends on your definition of good.

Good for LL, yes. Good for residents or good in the sense of being used... Not so much. They're almost all owned by speculators and land barons who jack up the prices to unrealistic numbers so they stay empty and for sale for months or years at a time.

What do care what a resident does with his land? He is paying tier every month. Thats all that matters to LL, and that shouldne all that matters to you if you want a successful SL.

 

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, NaomiLocket said:

Only if people buy it. It's been a sea of red for years. Hardly screams profitable.

To be fair, it's the barons and speculators doing that. As far as LL is concerned, the land is still being used.