Luna Bliss Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) Show us your findings...if you found something beautiful... Edited June 22 by Luna Bliss 14 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethelwine Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 (edited) The Sky is pretty, as is that tree I do seem to be having texture fetching issues at SLB now Edited June 22 by Aethelwine 3 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 22 Author Share Posted June 22 (edited) I'm noticing rock-type material... stucco, and metals (like you can see here in the gold) looking so much better: Edited June 22 by Luna Bliss 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shireena1 Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 I made a mesh cube with a pbr brick texture. Really not that exciting though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyric Demina Posted June 22 Share Posted June 22 I was initially shocked by colour's vibrance; but now I can see more muted tones with greater subtlety. Nothing fancy here, just a seaside landscape; but it's what I'm here for and I'm loving it. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) On 6/22/2024 at 1:56 AM, Aethelwine said: The Sky is pretty, as is that tree I do seem to be having texture fetching issues at SLB now betcha got a good frame rate though, and your video card isn't about to melt down Edited June 23 by BilliJo Aldrin spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 On 6/22/2024 at 12:58 AM, Luna Bliss said: Show us your findings...if you found something beautiful... How do you know what is PBR and what isn't? A comparison of the same scene with a non-PBR viewer would be helpful 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolyn Zapedzki Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: How do you know what is PBR and what isn't? A comparison of the same scene with a non-PBR viewer would be helpful I did a little experiment myself, here's my floor in a PBR viewer and my floor in a none PBR viewer, very disappointed with it, it;s black in the shop but blue on my floor, I much prefer my original texture, good job it was only 60L as I won't use it, I haven't been anywhere else to photograph more complex scenes, I prefer Firestorm but that viewer puts my fans into overdrive, the SL PBR viewer doesn't, so may visit some places later with that viewer and make comparisons. Edited June 23 by MadameGloom Ravenwood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 minutes ago, MadameGloom Ravenwood said: here's my floor in a PBR viewer and my floor in a none PBR viewer The default plywood texture in the non-PBR viewer is just because there's no corresponding texture in the non-PBR texture slot, assuming the floor is modifiable that's an easy fix. 4 minutes ago, MadameGloom Ravenwood said: it;s black in the shop but blue on my floor Out of curiosity, is this with or without reflection probes? The lighting on that floor looks very strange for an interior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolyn Zapedzki Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 The floor is textured, this is it originally I have no idea about probes TBH, need to gen up on it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 Posted these on another thread but gonna put em here too! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) SL21B's default region environment settings are buggy (look at the Sun light color in the ”Personal lighting” floater of LL's viewer: it is almost white, resulting into hyper-over-exposed scenes), so, unless you are visiting a parcel with a proper, custom EE setting, you should use one of the default environment settings (Midday (PBR or legacy) or Sunrise, Sunset, Midnight), or any other EE setting that did not get totally destroyed by LL's PBR silly lighting... However, with the proper lighting/environment settings choice, some of the PBR-only parcels do look absolutely gorgeous ! Look at this (Moving elements, Cool VL Viewer in PBR rendering mode, ”World” -> ”Environment settings” menu with ”Midday” (legacy) EE settings, ”Adjust legacy to HDR” on, ”Fix reflections blue hue” on): Edited June 23 by Henri Beauchamp 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 13 minutes ago, MadameGloom Ravenwood said: The floor is textured, this is it originally I have no idea about probes TBH, need to gen up on it all Assuming that texture is still in the regular texture slot for the object it really shouldn't be showing up as default plywood on non-PBR viewers! As for reflection probes I'd highly recommend watching the video @Nagachief Darkstone recently posted on the subject, it's very helpful in understanding what they are and how to use them. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carolyn Zapedzki Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: Assuming that texture is still in the regular texture slot for the object it really shouldn't be showing up as default plywood on non-PBR viewers! As for reflection probes I'd highly recommend watching the video @Nagachief Darkstone recently posted on the subject, it's very helpful in understanding what they are and how to use them. Ok, thank you, I will take a look at that. I don't wan to knock something if it's because of a misunderstanding. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 40 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: The default plywood texture in the non-PBR viewer is just because there's no corresponding texture in the non-PBR texture slot, assuming the floor is modifiable that's an easy fix yea just throw a non PBR texture on it. Thats why I’m not worried about my place, it will look as good (or as bad) as ever. Any viewer that will offer a non PRB version is the one I’ll go to after the firestorm three version rule catches me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 30 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said: However, with the proper lighting/environment settings choice, some of the PBR-only parcels do look absolutely gorgeous ! The new update definitely highlights the inconsistencies in the type and "quality" of a lot of existing content in SL, and as you say if an environment is designed for PBR and set up properly then, even with the inconsistencies between SLs version of PBR and the industry standard, there is a noticeable difference. The success of the new changes and introduction of PBR (and other upcoming features) is very much dependent on there being enough content for users to consume (as someone recently pointed out on these forums PBR is almost like SL 2.0, we just got to keep our friends lists, inventories, etc) and I'm starting to think that the comments made during the recent Roundtable meeting about the "hope and need" of LL for more engagement from creators and users was basically LLs way of saying "we just need you to rebuild the whole world for us in PBR!". If that is the case I just hope they don't expect residents to do it all for them and instead actually lend a hand this time around! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 2 hours ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: ”we just need you to rebuild the whole world for us in PBR!” This is impossible. Period. There are gazillions of builds and parcels in SL (especially in main land), and you cannot expect everyone to rebuild everything for PBR ! Sadly, LL has recently taken a stance which is geared entirely towards ”creators” (neglecting genuine SLers, i.e. genuine SL users), some (many ?) of them not even using SL, but just making stuff for selling it in SL. By lack of proper in-viewer build tools, these creators are using third party software (Blender & Co) to create their products and then, from LL's new stance, could/should expect to just have to upload them in SL and see them rendering ”perfectly” without any adjustment: this is very wrong a stance for a virtual world with such a loooong history and huge amount of existing (”legacy”) contents. This is very much unlike how SL was conceived: a place where you could build in-world, meet and share things in-world, shop in-world, thus my recent question to the first round table (question which was picked up but only partly posed at this round table, and the selected part not even truly answered) about in-world build tools (1). Don't take me wrong: I'm all for progress and improvements but, currently, PBR, while definitely desirable for the future of SL, is not a real improvement over what we had before, since it basically breaks many things we already have ! This is not to say that PBR cannot be made compatible with existing contents (2), but just that, for now, LL has not been sufficiently attentive to not breaking contents, and did not bother to adapt PBR to SL (be it by laziness or stubbornness, I am still unsure), and yes, even if it does mean not strictly adhering to gLTF specs and, yes, also meaning there would be some more work needed from creators (but in fact not more work than what was needed so far, i.e. pre-PBR) before they can sell their stuff in SL ! ----------- (1) The business model part, with SL's self-made builds vs Sansar creators oriented model, was totally ignored... (2) Have a look at the few workarounds (or rather hacks) I implemented in my viewer, and imagine what a true render engine developer (I'm not one) could do to improve PBR further and make it play nice with existing contents... Edited June 23 by Henri Beauchamp 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, Henri Beauchamp said: Sadly, LL has recently taken a stance which is geared entirely towards ”creators” (neglecting genuine SLers, i.e. genuine SL users), some (many ?) of them not even using SL, but just making stuff for selling it in SL. You've painted an inaccurate picture of SL "creators". While some "creators" only create and don't interact inworld by far the majority of creators also have lives inworld and are "genuine SLers". You're also forgetting the fact that by focusing on creators it is for the benefit of the SL user -- SL users like to buy the best stuff! I heard your same argument when mesh was introduced ("ohhhh, wailing and gnashing of teeth, they only care about these creators and not about the average folk") -- there was much protest over the introduction of mesh. But do these people, these "genuine SL people" you speak to, buy sculpts and prims for the most part? Absolutely not...they want the best looking stuff (usually it's mesh). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said: On 6/21/2024 at 11:58 PM, Luna Bliss said: Show us your findings...if you found something beautiful... Expand How do you know what is PBR and what isn't? A comparison of the same scene with a non-PBR viewer would be helpful I will try to do that...take comparison shots...though I think they increased vibrancy in colors we're seeing is more noticeable inworld. I'm seeing a lot of increased vibrancy in color, even on objects not using PBR materials, and was surprised about it, but I ran across this on the Firestorm website: From the Firestorm website: "First and foremost, it changes the lighting to be more realistic. Reflections and surface textures will behave better even for non-PBR items". "Most noticeably, any metal surfaces will look and behave like real metals, losing that laquered “wet” look that they often had before. The quality of the lighting will probably be the first thing many notice; it will be richer, more vibrant, and (for some) darker." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 I'm especially noticing a difference in translucent materials where light passes partially through them (like in plants & crystals). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Beauchamp Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: by far the majority of creators also have lives inworld and are ”genuine SLers”. You are speaking to one (everything I created and sell has been created for my own avatar in the first place)... But I'm afraid we are an endangered species and do not represent the ”majority” any more, by far ! The lack of any tool to build/model mesh in SL is of course the reason why today's creators spend 95% of their time using external programs, and do not spend any significant time in SL any more... This lack of modernized tools in the viewer also causes a dwindling in the number of ”self-made creators”, i.e. people who use SL to learn and create simple stuff in it, and then ”graduate” into full fledged and talented creators. The ”your world, your imagination” motto slowly but surely becomes ”the professional creators' world's”... And by ”professional”, I do mean people who did not learn modeling in SL, and rarely ever use SL themselves. Edited June 23 by Henri Beauchamp 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic Aeon Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: You've painted an inaccurate picture of SL "creators". While some "creators" only create and don't interact inworld by far the majority of creators also have lives inworld and are "genuine SLers". You're also forgetting the fact that by focusing on creators it is for the benefit of the SL user -- SL users like to buy the best stuff! I heard your same argument when mesh was introduced ("ohhhh, wailing and gnashing of teeth, they only care about these creators and not about the average folk") -- there was much protest over the introduction of mesh. But do these people, these "genuine SL people" you speak to, buy sculpts and prims for the most part? Absolutely not...they want the best looking stuff (usually it's mesh). I have a small circle of friends. They are ALL (gasp) creators -- mostly H and G but one clothing). While many have been making PBR products these last few months -- all with secondary textures (I have smart friends) NONE of them "like" PBR or WANTED PBR. I do also know the guy that pushed hard for PBR in Second Life (there may have been more than one -- this is just what he told me). And I have creator friend that like me have NO plans to switch to PBR. I agree that we have lost a lot of comraderies over the years. And while we DO have a new owner who was not around back then to my knowledge --- it amazes me that folks are forgetting that SANSAR had all the bells and whistles and PBR (and actually in the end to not fry your computer) and that didn't help them at all. We will see what the future brings. EEP didn't change much accept being able to change your skies and water per parcel and at different levels (a plus I agree). We will see what happens in a couple of years (it may actually be that long depending on how FS devs hold out for the little guys with the not so great computers). I currently have no plans to make PBR or switch viewers. I have done lots of experiments and have not embraced the newness. I am wondering if there will still be places that are intentionally NOT PBR. I guess there could be a non- PBR cadre and listing for folks that couldn't run a PBR based region. And THERE is a thought ^^. There are still full regions that seem to be made only of prims. So why not let people have a choice --- especially for the people that need it. Edited June 23 by Chic Aeon spelling 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrude Ragu Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said: The ”your world, your imagination” motto slowly but surely becomes ”the professional creators' world's”... And by ”professional”, I do mean people who did not learn modeling in SL, and rarely ever use SL themselves. I agree this is starting to become a problem. I have noticed it in recent years. The real question though is how to solve it. Personally, I'd like to see more 'mesh torture' options in-world, such that users can do more creative things with existing meshes. This would allow users to get creative using high quality components whilst having a low barrier to entry. It would also mean that the creativity doesn't stop at the merchant, but continues with the resident. I believe that the real barrier to entry in creativity is confidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 5 hours ago, Chic Aeon said: I currently have no plans to make PBR or switch viewers. I have done lots of experiments and have not embraced the newness. I am wondering if there will still be places that are intentionally NOT PBR. Are you not seeing enough benefits to balance out the extra work of creating PBR content? Or other reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted June 23 Author Share Posted June 23 6 hours ago, Henri Beauchamp said: This lack of modernized tools in the viewer also causes a dwindling in the number of ”self-made creators”, i.e. people who use SL to learn and create simple stuff in it, and then ”graduate” into full fledged and talented creators. The ”your world, your imagination” motto slowly but surely becomes ”the professional creators' world's”... And by ”professional”, I do mean people who did not learn modeling in SL, and rarely ever use SL themselves. I know quite a few creators who spend time inworld so are 'bonafied SL'ers, yet they didn't learn to create here but instead were fluent in 3D modeling and brought their talents here. Why do you see that as a negative? Or why is is so important to you that people build first in SL and then graduate to a 3D modeling program? I mean, I know many developed in that way in our past, but what's so special about it or why should it continue? Sure I'd like better inworld building tools...but from what others have said that's nearly impossible if we're thinking of mesh standards today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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