Firestorm PBR Release Is Out

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, JeromFranzic said:

Yes, but sim owners there have more leeway vs SL. There are some committed to not implementing PBR. We'll see how that pans out, but IMV... anyway, depends on how the server software advances as PBR gains wider acceptance in Open Sim.

Seems to me it is more a yawn upgrade were the only significance is how many are reverting back to the previous firestorm release, as they see no benefit to the new one.

I read this morning too that current viewers are not capable of copying the PBR textures so any content that does have PBR, will be made within Opensim.

[HeathcliffMontague]

16 hours ago, BriannaLovey said:

and most don't care about the difference in physics.

Count me out from OS then

[Porky Gorky]

9 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

GLTF & extensions is step two (in beta testing now) and that all but kills in world building.

Does it really kill in world building though? 

Mesh and BP materials are already created in external applications and have been for 10 + years, glTF scenes are just an extension of that. I am assuming a “regular” user will still be able to rez prims or buy modular mesh pieces and stick materials on them to build their own content in-world, the same as they have always been able to. Or are you suggesting that LL is getting rid of primitives or restricting existing in-world creation tools?

Edit - Oh, I think I now realise you are suggesting that most content creators spend a fair amount of time in-world compiling their creations generated from external applications and that will no longer be required when we can just import a whole complete scene. If that’s the case then ignore me, you are totally right.

Edited July 8 by Porky Gorky

[Qie Niangao]

45 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I read this morning too that current viewers are not capable of copying the PBR textures …

I don't understand what this means. How would one test this?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I read this morning too that current viewers are not capable of copying the PBR textures so any content that does have PBR, will be made within Opensim.

You mean they can't be ripped???

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I read this morning too that current viewers are not capable of copying the PBR textures so any content that does have PBR, will be made within Opensim.

You mean they can't be ripped???

Definitely an interesting shift to the discussion. 

Either:

"Oh darn, we will have less content since people can't rip it the same way.."

Or:

"Oh yay, we will have less ripped content!"

Or:

"Now ripped content will only come from OpenSim. That puts Second Life at some advantage /disadvantage."

 

[Love Zhaoying]

17 hours ago, Porky Gorky said:

20 hours ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

I've done the spectrum from Core2 to i7, so I have some experience from all sides

But have you actually tried using a ZX Spectrum?

I prefer the Timex-Sinclair models. They beat the original Sinclair models by a mile..oops a meter.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Definitely an interesting shift to the discussion. 

Either:

"Oh darn, we will have less content since people can't rip it the same way.."

Or:

"Oh yay, we will have less ripped content!"

Or:

"Now ripped content will only come from OpenSim. That puts Second Life at some advantage /disadvantage."

 

I'm just confused by what she means. So far as I can see, perms for PBR materials are handled the same way in-viewer as legacy ones.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I'm just confused by what she means. So far as I can see, perms for PBR materials are handled the same way in-viewer as legacy ones.

Ok. If she DID mean "ripping", permissions are irrelevant.

Disclaimer: I am easily confused, even in the best conditions. 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Ok. If she DID mean "ripping", permissions are irrelevant.

Disclaimer: I am easily confused, even in the best conditions. 

 

Fair point, but what I mean is that I don't know what else should mean by "copy," as the handling of PBR materials is the same.

[BriannaLovey]

42 minutes ago, Porky Gorky said:

Does it really kill in world building though? 

Mesh and BP materials are already created in external applications and have been for 10 + years, glTF scenes are just an extension of that. I am assuming a “regular” user will still be able to rez prims or buy modular mesh pieces and stick materials on them to build their own content in-world, the same as they have always been able to. Or are you suggesting that LL is getting rid of primitives or restricting existing in-world creation tools?

Edit - Oh, I think I now realise you are suggesting that most content creators spend a fair amount of time in-world compiling their creations generated from external applications and that will no longer be required when we can just import a whole complete scene. If that’s the case then ignore me, you are totally right.

Technically that is still possible with DAE import, but a lot of re-linking would be required.

And this doesn't kill in-world building, but it does drive more nails into the coffin. You will still be able to build stuff in-world, but nobody will be able to compete with the professional creator class.

[BriannaLovey]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Seems to me it is more a yawn upgrade were the only significance is how many are reverting back to the previous firestorm release, as they see no benefit to the new one.

I read this morning too that current viewers are not capable of copying the PBR textures so any content that does have PBR, will be made within Opensim.

[redacted]

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, BriannaLovey said:

[redacted]

Do you give lessons in self-editing?

[BriannaLovey]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Do you give lessons in self-editing?

 

Contact me inworld for a lesson 😄

 

[Arielle Popstar]

The Changelog of an FS derivative pointed out that the OXP and Dae files have no support for PBR, so exporting PBR items attempts will/might result in missing textures or Materials.

[BriannaLovey]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The Changelog of an FS derivative pointed out that the OXP and Dae files have no support for PBR, so exporting PBR items attempts will/might result in missing textures or Materials.

Someone would have to write a custom object exporter and possibly importer in order to export them.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The Changelog of an FS derivative pointed out that the OXP and Dae files have no support for PBR, so exporting PBR items attempts will/might result in missing textures or Materials.

Someone would have to write a custom object exporter and possibly importer in order to export them.

Are there valid "exporters" now? It sounds like either an "edge-case" or, "questionable".

What can you "export" from Second Life using built-in tools, following the TOS, etc.?

(I has teh dum.)

 

[BriannaLovey]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Are there valid "exporters" now? It sounds like either an "edge-case" or, "questionable".

What can you "export" from Second Life using built-in tools, following the TOS, etc.?

(I has teh dum.)

 

The existing "export DAE" button (which only works for objects you have uploaded/created yourself) can export unrigged mesh without PBR materials. It cannot export rigged/fitted mesh, or any PBR materials. This is likely deliberate in order to make it more difficult for high-value mesh objects to be ripped.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, BriannaLovey said:

The existing "export DAE" button (which only works for objects you have uploaded/created yourself) can export unrigged mesh without PBR materials. It cannot export rigged/fitted mesh, or any PBR materials. This is likely deliberate in order to make it more difficult for high-value mesh objects to be ripped.

Seems that it was already somewhat limited..just adding on "Oh, and it can't do PBR" isn't a "killer". 

If you uploaded something yourself (per the actual restrictions on the functionality), why would you need to export something after you modified it..?

 

[BriannaLovey]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Seems that it was already somewhat limited..just adding on "Oh, and it can't do PBR" isn't a "killer". 

If you uploaded something yourself (per the actual restrictions on the functionality), why would you need to export something after you modified it..?

 

I forgot to mention that this function can also convert prims to mesh. So if you had an old prim creation, you could export it as DAE, clean it up in Blender to reduce the number of polygons and make proper LOD models (though hardly anyone does that lol) then reupload it. That is probably why it was originally created.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

18 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

The existing "export DAE" button (which only works for objects you have uploaded/created yourself) can export unrigged mesh without PBR materials. It cannot export rigged/fitted mesh, or any PBR materials. This is likely deliberate in order to make it more difficult for high-value mesh objects to be ripped.

Is that different for Blinn-Phong materials? Can they be exported this way?

[BriannaLovey]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Is that different for Blinn-Phong materials? Can they be exported this way?

They can be, yes, since they are handled by the viewer as regular textures except during rendering. PBR materials on the other hand are wrapped in an entirely different class, though they still have texture-like data.

[BriannaLovey]

10 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Yes we do.

PBR and the new tooling are part of a much bigger platform shift. A full industry standard workflow that meets the needs of unity and unreal developers. PBR is step one. GLTF & extensions is step two (in beta testing now) and that all but kills in world building. SL is changing in some very big ways and we're only just seeing the surface scratches so far.

There is no option to opt out, no way to side step

Thinking about running away to opensim? They've got PBR too.

 

 

Of course they have PBR, but they won't block your viewer for not rendering it the way LL wants. OpenSim has no shared experience policy, due to the decentralized nature.

And don't say "hurr durr white/gray/invisible objects," because @Henri Beauchamp's viewer has completely eliminated that problem. If you don't believe me, have a look in his codebase to see how it works, since I assume you are a knowledgeable viewer developer. The relevant code is on line 5552, in llvovolume.cpp. The entire source is here: http://sldev.free.fr/sources/CoolVLViewer-src-13223.tar.bz2

Edited July 8 by BriannaLovey

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

And don't say "hurr durr white/gray/invisible objects,"

Welll, NOW I want to say, "hurr durr", because you said NOT to.

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

since I assume you are a knowledgeable viewer developer.

Der Coffee is der Catznip!