Help with/against unjust real estate people

[tingelater]

Is there a place that ordinary users can go, to complain about Real-estate agents that is not treating their tennants fairly? Like if you rent a place and keep getting re-located to different regions with no warning or refunds, or the real-estate just "takes away" a parcel you are renting before it is run out and give it to another client?. 

[Egon Takeda]

hi Tingelater, I don't know a place like that but I think thats maybe also a bit "difficult" because sometimes an real estate owner or agent maybe does not just communicate right or have his pressures as well what tenants sometimes not see. I had in my history also the case that tenants went very mean because of the rule "no refund", which they have read and accept with start of their rentals. however, I had also just relocate tenants, but of course I do that only if a pressure is there and try to avoid that if possible. it is just that you cannot pay a full region as example if just a small part of it is rented and sometimes it is more "economic" to risk to lose or upset an tenant instead of paying an almost empty region over months.

not that I want talk for contributors, is just how that happened in my own history, and even I communicate well and do that very careful with trying to see the isssues and needs, a tenant have, it is a scenario what can happens.

if you want I invite you kindly to talk to me inworld.

however - it is good to mirror your inconvience to your landlord directly, he should know what he did wrong and you give him also the possibility to respond to you and explain, and maybe also a little "make it good again". and if its not helps, there are a lot others who do it maybe better. (I do my business since 2016 and had to relocate a few tenants already and not everything went well) 

with greetings, Egon

[Sid Nagy]

22 minutes ago, tingelater said:

Is there a place that ordinary users can go, to complain about Real-estate agents that is not treating their tennants fairly? Like if you rent a place and keep getting re-located to different regions with no warning or refunds, or the real-estate just "takes away" a parcel you are renting before it is run out and give it to another client?. 

Nope.
Their land, their rules... nothing you  can really do about it.
My solution would be: take your loss and move to another estate owner. There are really good ones out there.
When new with a land baron, don't pay too much weeks upfront. And if you don't like it: move on again until you find one that suits you.
There is so much land available.
Zoha, Count Burks, Anshe, Azure... I rented for longer periods with all these and they are very good, never had any problems and I'm sure there are lots more out there. Don't waist your time with landlords who think they are Gods or something. Move to a pro.

Edited June 10 by Sid Nagy

[tingelater]

Thank you kindly for your perspective Egon, but It does not answer my question.

In this case, my friend has been relocated twice, with no warning, and today the real estate in question just TOOK the parcel she still had  almost a week of rent on, and rented it to a stranger. EVEN if my friend had been there to ask for the place to be transferred to another friend. My friend rented the parcel to keep it "safe" until the other friend could get online and get it  -  but instead of transferring ownership to THAT friend .. they gave it to a stranger and  ( as always no refund  -  THAT bit we knew ) not to the friend she was trying to help.

I just have so many stories  -  I sure understand your perspective of the matter Egon  -  but THIS particular place really should be complained about.

 

[WillowdaleEstate]

I've been running Willowdale for over 16 years now and have never booted a tenant or raised prices on an existing tenant.  There is nothing you can go about what happened except next time chose to rent with a more reputable estate. 

Visit the Willowdale Estate Land Store for landmarks:

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/WILLOWDALE/61/192/23

Our 24-7 sales staff are ready to help!

[tingelater]

Thank you kindly for your perspective Willowdale, but It does not answer my question.

I'm just SO frustrated on my friends behalf. it is a place several of my friends have been renting at, and now  (censored) %&€%&%€   happens to them. I just feel like i want to stop those or warn others against them. But I'm not the  "jungle-neanderthal" kind of person, so I wanted to be civil and go through some   "proper channels" - if only I knew WHERE they are ...

[WillowdaleEstate]

It's not what you want to hear but there is no recourse in a situation like this.  LL does not get involved with disputes between residents.  If you publicly shame the Estate that did it you could be punished.  Proper channels just don't exist.

[beethros Karas]

44 minutes ago, tingelater said:

Real-estate agents that is not treating their tennants fairly?

NO THERE IS NOT...

Hehe,

Thats why we exist!

I became a middle man ( they call it a landlord) back in the days...

Just because:
my 1st month in SL I rent a place from one of those big ones that they are up there still today..
The next day a "dog" of them came just upon my head flying and ask my WHY there is a script inside my wall!!

Note: As a newbie I was I got scared with that "thing" above my head and also I had NO idea what a script was and how/why it was inside a wall of mine!

That was enough for me.
That very same moment, I started looking and I discover Mainland.
Those days there was NO COVENANT and we all was feeling like those cowboys in the old west, where they had nothing to declare to anyone!
I was discribing it as a Mad Max land to the ppl...
Nowadays, we have a covenant and it goes to follow the ticky Tacky way of the ... what we call a real life!

LL DOESNT INVOLVE with personal issues, unless its harrasing.
So, yeah, just warn your friends about it and try to forget it ( they call it forgive)
Because if we keep into our brains/souls all of the negative stuff, we end up misserable.
Thats why all religions are priesting about.. forgiveness!
Its not to benefit the other part.. is for to benefit our selfs!

Good Luck on having FUN in your SL ( and RL)

With Kind regards,

A Middle Man...

 

[Coffee Pancake]

48 minutes ago, WillowdaleEstate said:

Visit the Willowdale Estate Land Store for landmarks:

It's not a good look to advertise a rental business in a thread about disreputable rental business.

I'm not saying you are, you could be literal biblically accurate angels festooned with eyes and good intentions, it's still not a good look.

[Rowan Amore]

42 minutes ago, tingelater said:

Thank you kindly for your perspective Willowdale, but It does not answer my question.

I'm just SO frustrated on my friends behalf. it is a place several of my friends have been renting at, and now  (censored) %&€%&%€   happens to them. I just feel like i want to stop those or warn others against them. But I'm not the  "jungle-neanderthal" kind of person, so I wanted to be civil and go through some   "proper channels" - if only I knew WHERE they are ...

Rent from a reputable company.  I've rented from Dream Seeker Estates since I started SL.  They don't advertise in the forums and their customer service is awesome.  They're also the 3rd largest company being in business since 2007.

Sorry your friends are having issues.

[discussionbot]

2 hours ago, Coffee Pancake said:

3 hours ago, WillowdaleEstate said:

Visit the Willowdale Estate Land Store for landmarks:

It's not a good look to advertise a rental business in a thread about disreputable rental business.

 

Gotta respect the Sigma Hustle Grindset 🤣

[Diablo Lioncourt]

On 6/10/2024 at 12:21 PM, tingelater said:

Is there a place that ordinary users can go, to complain about Real-estate agents that is not treating their tennants fairly? Like if you rent a place and keep getting re-located to different regions with no warning or refunds, or the real-estate just "takes away" a parcel you are renting before it is run out and give it to another client?. 

I'm sorry your friends are having trouble.

They can sue the landlord in RL court for "breach of contract". That's your "proper channel" or legal remedy if they want to force a landlord to return their money or compensate them for distress. I know it feels like there should be something you can do in world, but there really isn't, unless you want to open your own land company.

The Lindens do not arbitrate/mediate/police transactions between residents. They may ban a fake business for massive outright fraud, but they won't intervene when a service is being provided/delivered to a large number of residents, some of whom have complaints about quality & business practices.

The great thing about renting land is there's no need to make a long-term commitment, and you have lots of options if something doesn't meet your expectations. There's so many great offerings to choose from! I rented land myself forever before I got into playing landlord. I now own some of the land I rented almost two decades ago as a noob.

Edited June 11 by Diablo Lioncourt

[Love Zhaoying]

The answer is really "no", because the "real estate" transaction is between you and the land owner.  

To Linden Lab, that is a "resident-to-resident" dispute.  So unless there was a place to put "reviews" for real estate services, you're just out of luck.

Try picking a land rental / leasing company that comes recommended by friends.

Some of the things you listed, even Linden Lab can do with the official Land covenant, if you "owned" the parcel directly: LL can move your parcel if it is under a certain size and give it to someone else. This came up in a recent thread about the official Land covenant.

Your best bet is probably just to rent / lease from someone who doesn't do the things you listed.

[Diablo Lioncourt]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Your best bet is probably just to rent / lease from someone who doesn't do the things you listed.

Yep. A lease should tell you if they can do these things. If I don't find written policies that address my questions I don't rent. I don't recommend relying on a 1-on 1 conversation with a "leasing agent" who works on commission; I want a written lease or covenant prepared by the owner.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

24 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Your best bet is probably just to rent / lease from someone who doesn't do the things you listed.

Yep. A lease should tell you if they can do these things. If I don't find written policies that address my questions I don't rent. I don't recommend relying on a 1-on 1 conversation with a "leasing agent" who works on commission; I want a written lease or covenant prepared by the owner.

Fair question, since you're Real Estate:  unless the Real Estate company offers some special "perk" for a longer term "lease" where you pay more up ahead, do you see any logic to "pay as you go" (maybe a month or so at a time)?  

I guess my point is, if you pay several months ahead and the experience doth sucketh greatly, then you aren't getting a refund.

But on the other hand, if you pay "by the week" or "by the month", something can always "go wrong" with the rental system.  ("oops! Where's my stuff? I can't get to my parcel!")

There has to be a "sweet spot" if you're not sure you trust your RE company..

 

[Diablo Lioncourt]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

unless the Real Estate company offers some special "perk" for a longer term "lease" where you pay more up ahead, do you see any logic to "pay as you go" (maybe a month or so at a time)?  

Well, I offer people 1 free week for every 4 they pay for in 1 transaction. The people most likely to take advantage of this are long-term tenants.

I don't personally make decisions about how much I put down initially based on a promotion or perk. Once I'm a regular, and going to buy it again anyway, however, I'd definitely take advantage. The places I rented from most were often very no frills, no nonsense, "read this, pay a box & you're instantly in" kinda places. They didn't really need gimmicks because discounting and volume were their sole pricing strategy.

You get good loyal tenants who pay for 1 week at a time, or for 4.

Edited June 11 by Diablo Lioncourt

[Coffee Pancake]

Nothing inspires trust and establishes reputation quite like thirst.

 

[Teresa Firelight]

In my very early days in SL I rented a tiny parcel and had nothing but trouble.. at first I could not access it, then when I could finally get in, the previous tenants stuff was still there. I had to contact the LL first to ask for access and then to ask him to return the previous tenant's stuff. The landlord decided that two contacts in the same week meant I was "too much hassle" and evicted me as an "undesirable tenant."  I lost my 1 month rent (which at the time was a lot of money to me) and never actually able to use the place.

I ARed them and guess what.. .my AR was ignored and never acted upon. It seems that unscrupulous landlords can get away with whatever they want.

Since then, before I started to own property, I rented from two other landlords over a course of about 2 years.. and never had any problems or issues or unfair treatment from either of them. In general, most landlords are good/reputable. Sadly, a few are not. And as far as I can tell, we have zero recourse against  bad landlords except to warn our friends and not continue to do business with them.

 

[Clem Marques]

My first time attempting to rent an adult parcel in a private estate, I had a strangely invasive, nosy landlady.

She'd show up at random times and just stand near my parcel boundary for minutes at a time, surveilling what I was building (which was just a small slightly transparent cube as a home, with furniture in it.) Standing there even if I had guests over. It was very unsettling to say the least. I had the setting "Avatars on other parcels can see and chat with avatars on this parcel" turned off, and on more than one occasion she flew into my parcel several meters up, presumably to see what I was doing in there without me noticing. But I always have the "nearby" tab open so I saw her and felt creeped out by that. She ran some sort of sex dungeon in the other corner of the sim that I was not interested in. The breaking point was when a female friend was using my apartment on her own, and the landlady apparently entered my parcel to flirt with her, saying that she'd "give a discount." Imagine my embarrassment when my friend told me what had happened. Really, really weird and unwanted interactions.

Eventually I just got tired of dealing with a crazy, nosy person and picked up all my furniture and left. I had paid for a month and a half of rent in advance, which she didn't return, and I did not expect her to so I did not even bother to ask for it. She was obviously very unprofessional so it was pointless.

Rented from one of the big landlords a few years later and had a good, hassle-free experience. Always go for someone who has a good reputation and vast amounts of real estate and/or years of experience in the business if you are looking for a parcel to rent. Amateurs are just not worth the hassle, even if their prices are slightly cheaper than the well-established landlords.

Despite all of that, I generally feel uncomfortable renting parcels because I hate having to follow someone else's arbitrary rules about building styles/limitations and privacy while trying to enjoy the land. I'd rather just shell out the cash and buy it if I'm interested in a place. Much better. That way I can do whatever I want, have proper privacy and ban lines (if it's a private area/home) and owe nobody an explanation.

Edited July 23 by Clem Marques

[Teresa Firelight]

I have to agree with you Clem... at this point in my SL journey I would much rather own that rent. But that is not always feasible for new residents who haven't yet invested in a premium membership so they can buy mainland. Renting is a good way for those who are not ready to invest financially into SL at the level it takes to purchase and own property long term.

For me personally, the only type of place I would consider renting at this point is a large theme region (or set of regions) in a theme I loved... such as (for me) a campsite in Mount Campion National Forest. The reason I like it there is because it has several regions of beautifully landscaped forests, steams, waterfalls, etc and I like the feel of living in the forest. (But that would be a 2nd home, I would still want to own my primary residence.)

There are a lot of very nicely done communities that people might want to rent in solely because of the atmosphere and/or activities they provide. For example, there are family neighborhoods with social activities, there are Space and/or SciFi environments, there are all sorts of themed areas (a wild west one, a midevil one, a post WWIII destitute wilderness, an adult grungy neighborhood for folks who love that sort of activity, etc.)

The place where it makes sense to me (personally) to rent rather than own is in a themed community which provides an atmosphere you cant get by owning your own parcel.

Going back to the theme of the OP ... these themed communities are usually long term places owned by LandLords who have been around for a quite a while and are reputable... or else the themed place wouldnt still exist. So I suspect that sort of place is almost always safe to rent in.

[Diablo Lioncourt]

1 hour ago, Teresa Firelight said:

Renting is a good way for those who are not ready to invest financially into SL at the level it takes to purchase and own property long term.

For me, it seemed like whenever I wanted to start a little club or have a house to entertain it was more affordable and flexible to rent a 4096 from a big company than it would have been to go to the Lindens for something that size.

I mostly use adult land. The purchase price of 4096 parcel in Zindra would be substantial. Then after that, the tier would have been higher than paying rent!

And then I'd have had to hold it for some time after I was done using it in order to sell it and get my money back.

That rental above costs $14.50 a month in USD. This particular one is residential, but this company also offer them in "mixed zoning" islands that are more or less like mainland except there' a few more rules about building & avatar count to keep things a bit more orderly. Owning that size on mainland would be $22.00 a month, and less prims. And you'd have to pay about $243 up front for it (for a similar inland parcel in my mainland neighborhood) as well. And there's no "skyboxes must be over 500M up", "no structures taller than the shortest border of your parcel", and "no more than 7 avatars per 4096 parcel" type rules on mainland. There's a bit less predictability about what kind of neighbors you may have.

Mainland made sense to me after I had so many tenants I needed a fair amount of land.

Edited July 23 by Diablo Lioncourt

[Prokofy Neva]

On 6/10/2024 at 12:21 PM, tingelater said:

Is there a place that ordinary users can go, to complain about Real-estate agents that is not treating their tennants fairly? Like if you rent a place and keep getting re-located to different regions with no warning or refunds, or the real-estate just "takes away" a parcel you are renting before it is run out and give it to another client?. 

No, the Lindens will not accept complaints about other residents, it is called "interpersonal disputes" or something like that in their TOS at LindenLab.com and they simply will not act. And you can see why, it is hard to adjudicate even with all the server information they have, and because landlords make their own rules consistent or not with the TOS.

So what can you do? Go to social media, start a blog, warn other people in private chat.

Put a statement in your "picks" which many people peruse. The Lindens will not remove it in most cases because an AR won't stick.

What you are complaining about is common, there are various reasons for it and you just have to ask around and shop around to find the more reputable dealers on islands.

Count Burks is one such person long in business with multiple islands; you can also go and see all the ads place by beethros who is also decent. We are not allowed either to name names or make allegations about bad landlords nor can landlords themselves advertise themselves in this thread, they are in the ads.

4096 m2 on Mainland above the one sim level ($166) works out to US $12.28 per month at my NYS income tax so that's why Mainland is cheaper and someone could rent it to you for a dollar or two above that and still be under the island cost with land that you can sail out of or drive out of.

 

Edited July 24 by Prokofy Neva