Anatomy of Trolls and How to Deal with Them

[Persephone Emerald]

36 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

I think that's a bit too broad. There are many ways to say things in hope of provoking a response, not all of which come even close to being trolling. I think that's the gray area that a few people in this thread have been digging around in. Somewhere in that gray area is the difference between poking someone "in fun" and poking someone just to be mean.

As we've discussed before, the problem is that the poker and the pokee (?) each have their own interpretation of what's "in fun" and what's "mean".  The poker is always hoping for a response, but may not perceive that the pokee will find the poke truly annoying or even hurtful.  In that case, the pokee will take your definition and call the poker a TROLL.  The poker will yell righteously that the pokee is overreacting and will resent being called a troll.  Therein lies madness.

I prefer to reserve the word "troll" for those pokers who and clearly -- by almost anyone's definition -- just poking to be nasty SOBs. Trolls aren't in the gray area. 

When a cat plays with a mouse, it's fun for the cat, but not fun for the mouse.  🐁  🐈 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

When a cat plays with a mouse, it's fun for the cat, but not fun for the mouse.  🐁  🐈 

Nuuuuuu! The cat is just a "jokester", testing the limits of the platform and the patience of the mouse. 

You must accept this "Truth" as it came from a pseudo-intellectual under bridge dwelling billy-goat collector who wears TROUSERS!

 

[Ineffable Mote]

20 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

 

then we're all screwed as a civilization.

yes. and there's no saving it. it's closer to a behavioral sink than a civilization, now, in any case. such is life.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Nuuuuuu! The cat is just a "jokester", testing the limits of the platform and the patience of the mouse. 

You must accept this "Truth" as it came from a pseudo-intellectual under bridge dwelling billy-goat collector who wears TROUSERS!

 

..is it too late to choose the Bear?

[Luna Bliss]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

In the 19th- and especially early 20th-century, psychology (as you say) becomes a thing in criticism, sometimes usefully and sometimes stupidly. (An example of the latter might be a reading that over-literalizes Hamlet's Oedipus Complex, as though he were a real person with a real childhood, rather than a fictional construct made of words and stage actions).

lol too much

Yes for some years it seemed, according to the most popular Psychology of the day, that our real problem as women was that we were upset over not having a wee-wee...

[Roxy Couturier]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

"Forgiveness" is over rated.

Indeed it is.

However there also has to be a some grace for changed behavior. This is Sl and a forum, not RL crime. People aren't killed. REKT sometimes, but not killed.

People can and do grow, change and evolve. Well, some do.

This doesn't mean forgiveness for their past, nor forgetting it but giving grace for that changed behavior in order to limit the disruption that continual hounding of them where ever they post when they aren't exhibiting that behavior. That isn't productive since it gives them absolutely no incentive to change. And that's what's desired isn't it? For that behavior to stop?

That's my philosophy for dealing with hateful, unproductive, conversation stopping 'trolling'.

 

Note: No avatars were killed in the making of this post.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm sorry but your statement is ridiculous - "It is not about what someone puts out but about how it affects another and that depends how they choose to take it".
It's ridiculous because you are, again, placing sole responsibility on the victim".

It's the victim who is usually the one having the problem and the looking for change. The perpetrator/gaslighter/troller is fine with the incident(s) and is not looking to change, so why should the focus be on that one? The victim is responsible for their own feelings. That might sound cold to those who don't understand it but we are each the author of our individual feelings. It is our history, level of maturity, outlook on life, basic instincts etc that determines how we each feel about a particular situation or event. Your feeling about something can differ significantly to how I feel about it. The event or perpetrator is not the problem but how we each feel about it. So that's why we are each responsible for our feelings on something. That can change as new information comes to light.

When one is young and immature, one is more sensitive and vulnerable to the events that happen but as that one matures emotionally, they become hardened to those inconsistencies that happen. Maturity however is not dependent on physical age but on a willingness to handle life as an adult. Some get stunted in that process through parental abuse, addiction etc. 

I heard it said and can relate that emotional maturity stops when people pick up a drink or drug. The journey to adult hood become stunted and the user then starts to replace growing up with alcohol or drugs. It results in 35 year old's coming into recovery with the emotional maturity of a 12 year old. They stopped maturing and started to face the challenges of life with having a few drinks or smoking a few joints.

The perpetrator/gaslighter/troller is not the problem except that they triggered what is really just an immature response by the victim. The former could use help if they are open to it but it is the latter that really needs it.

[Rat Luv]

9 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

When a cat plays with a mouse, it's fun for the cat, but not fun for the mouse.  🐁  🐈 

But then the cat can't complain if the tables turn...! 🐭

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Roxy Couturier said:

REKT sometimes

I like this, haven't seen it in enough years that I forgot it!

1 minute ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Note: No avatars were killed in the making of this post.

No, but you "killed it" nonetheless! ❤️

 

[Persephone Emerald]

51 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

Not for me, and a mass of people who rely on those definitions, an understanding of vocabulary and ability to comprehend those words so that they can communicate clearly and understand others clearly.

I know we're kind of in a world where "Double Plus Good!" is gaining traction, and we're seeing the results of it today, but I hope you can seriously reconsider this opinion - because if words are not concrete, and they are subjective, and people can just pick the one they like, or just make up their own (It happens!)...

then we're all screwed as a civilization. Have a good day. I appreciate you!

The meanings of words are not concrete. Meanings change in context and over time. They aren't entirely mushy and subjective either.  The meanings (plural) of words and phrases are plastic and multiform, but we can try to agree to them when in a discussion. Otherwise,  understanding each other would be impossible.

Edited May 28 by Persephone Emerald

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rat Luv said:

11 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

When a cat plays with a mouse, it's fun for the cat, but not fun for the mouse.  🐁  🐈 

But then the cat can't complain if the tables turn...! 🐭

Toxoplasmosis in action.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/parasite-makes-mice-unafraid-cats-may-quash-other-fears

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The meanings of words are not concrete. Meanings change is context and over time.

It seems, as evidenced by some who say otherwise, that some people would prefer if words only mean 1 thing.  Perhaps it gives them comfort, something solid to hold onto as the world and society constantly shift around them.

[Roxy Couturier]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It's the victim who is usually the one having the problem and the looking for change. The perpetrator/gaslighter/troller is fine with the incident(s) and is not looking to change, so why should the focus be on that one? The victim is responsible for their own feelings. That might sound cold to those who don't understand it but we are each the author of our individual feelings. It is our history, level of maturity, outlook on life, basic instincts etc that determines how we each feel about a particular situation or event. Your feeling about something can differ significantly to how I feel about it. The event or perpetrator is not the problem but how we each feel about it. So that's why we are each responsible for our feelings on something. That can change as new information comes to light.

When one is young and immature, one is more sensitive and vulnerable to the events that happen but as that one matures emotionally, they become hardened to those inconsistencies that happen. Maturity however is not dependent on physical age but on a willingness to handle life as an adult. Some get stunted in that process through parental abuse, addiction etc. 

I heard it said and can relate that emotional maturity stops when people pick up a drink or drug. The journey to adult hood become stunted and the user then starts to replace growing up with alcohol or drugs. It results in 35 year old's coming into recovery with the emotional maturity of a 12 year old. They stopped maturing and started to face the challenges of life with having a few drinks or smoking a few joints.

The perpetrator/gaslighter/troller is not the problem except that they triggered what is really just an immature response by the victim. The former could use help if they are open to it but it is the latter that really needs it.

Except it's perfectly acceptable for members within a society to say "No. Enough. Stop that." and shame and belittle those that won't. Then it's on the perp, so to speak, to be allowed back into polite society on society's terms.

Note that the 'perp' also has the right to form there own little corner to 'tell it like it is'. Though the times I've witnessed that it's largely an echo chamber.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

5 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The meanings of words are not concrete. Meanings change is context and over time.

It seems, as evidenced by some who say otherwise, that some people would prefer if words only mean 1 thing.  Perhaps it gives them comfort, something solid to hold onto as the world and society constantly shift around them.

Yes, for some people, always being right is their safety.

[Roxy Couturier]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Yes, for some people, always being right is their safety.

I'm always right. Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

I'm always right. Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

I had to look it up, curiosity killed this cat!

“I thought I was wrong once,” Seldom said, “but I found out later I was mistaken.”

― Edward Abbey, The Monkey Wrench Gang

Edited May 28 by Love Zhaoying

[Persephone Emerald]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..is it too late to choose the Bear?

I bet @Zalificent Corvinus could beat the bear.

[Arielle Popstar]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Except it's perfectly acceptable for members within a society to say "No. Enough. Stop that." and shame and belittle those that won't. Then it's on the perp, so to speak, to be allowed back into polite society on society's terms.

It's now 11 pages and counting while posters are trying to define what it is that should stopped. Meanwhile the victims that are hurting wait for activists to stop the perps so will not be hurt in future. Guess that will be a lifetime waiting!

[Luna Bliss]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm sorry but your statement is ridiculous - "It is not about what someone puts out but about how it affects another and that depends how they choose to take it".
It's ridiculous because you are, again, placing sole responsibility on the victim".

It's the victim who is usually the one having the problem and the looking for change. The perpetrator/gaslighter/troller is fine with the incident(s) and is not looking to change, so why should the focus be on that one? The victim is responsible for their own feelings. That might sound cold to those who don't understand it but we are each the author of our individual feelings. It is our history, level of maturity, outlook on life, basic instincts etc that determines how we each feel about a particular situation or event. Your feeling about something can differ significantly to how I feel about it. The event or perpetrator is not the problem but how we each feel about it. So that's why we are each responsible for our feelings on something. That can change as new information comes to light.

Well my kind, loving feelings about r*pists, murderers, & psychopaths is that we gently place them in jail until they learn to behave.  And i will pray for them.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

12 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

And that's what's desired isn't it? For that behavior to stop?

Forgiving them doesn't stop them, and you assume they WANT to change voluntarily.

Empirical evidence says you have your head up your bottom on this.

In the medieval era, the Church made a small fortune off this, selling "indulgences".

Pre-written certificates of "forgiveness" for petty sins, sold for a modest sum by travelling sales people called "Pardoners".

The basis was simple, person sins, buys "forgiveness", then sins again, rinse and repeat.

 

"Indugences! Get them here! Forgiveness for adultery, tuppence each 2 for thruppence! Get one for the wife,, better yet, get one for somebody else's wife!"

 

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

11 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Except it's perfectly acceptable for members within a society to say "No. Enough. Stop that." and shame and belittle those that won't. Then it's on the perp, so to speak, to be allowed back into polite society on society's terms.

It's now 11 pages and counting while posters are trying to define what it is that should stopped. Meanwhile the victims that are hurting wait for activists to stop the perps so will not be hurt in future. Guess that will be a lifetime waiting!

And meanwhile someone on the forum tells women they are responsible for sexual abuse due to how they are dressed.

[Roxy Couturier]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

It's now 11 pages and counting while posters are trying to define what it is that should stopped. Meanwhile the victims that are hurting wait for activists to stop the perps so will not be hurt in future. Guess that will be a lifetime waiting!

It's an ongoing process. Like any growth.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well my kind, loving feelings about r*pists, murderers, & psychopaths is that we gently place them in jail until they learn to behave.  And i will pray for them.

The context of the discussion is Second Life, not the real world.

[Luna Bliss]

20 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The perpetrator/gaslighter/troller is not the problem except that they triggered what is really just an immature response by the victim.

uhhhhh

[Roxy Couturier]

2 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Forgiving them doesn't stop them, and you assume they WANT to change voluntarily.

Empirical evidence says you have your head up your bottom on this.

In the medieval era, the Church made a small fortune off this, selling "indulgences".

Pre-written certificates of "forgiveness" for petty sins, sold for a modest sum by travelling sales people called "Pardoners".

The basis was simple, person sins, buys "forgiveness", then sins again, rinse and repeat.

 

"Indugences! Get them here! Forgiveness for adultery, tuppence each 2 for thruppence! Get one for the wife,, better yet, get one for somebody else's wife!"

 

The voices in your head are drowning out what I wrote. Reread and get back to me when you 'keep up'.