New Article: "SL's loyal users embrace its decaying software and no-fun imperfections"

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

. I win!

Anubis would be proud of you. Maybe a Long Island Iced Tea as a reward???

😏

[Arielle Popstar]

2 hours ago, Istelathis said:

If you want the article to be political, it will judged through the lens of politics.  If you want it to be spiritual, it will be judged as spiritual.  If you want it to be technical, it will be judged based upon it's merits of technical accuracy. If you want it to be factual, it will be judged by accuracy.

Best answer here.

[diamond Marchant]

So I read the article a few times. One good thing... the author Alice Bucknell has 7,574 Insta followers, so maybe one or two will try out Second Life.

Lots of misinformation, which others have reported and commented on, so too bad about that.

Kind of a negative vibe... e.g. "decaying software and no-fun imperfections"  Was that really necessary?

My actual criticism is that they seem oblivious to some very important aspects of Second Life. First, SL has a global map. You can travel from A to B using vehicles over significant distances, similar to the world in Ready Player One. I spent less than 10 minutes in Sansar because it has no global map. Alice seems to be a "TP into a hotspot" type of player. I view the problems related to vehicle travel as part of the fun.

Second, as I have mentioned before, the quality of the shopping experience and the sublime nature of some digital assets are very compelling. Shopping is important to me and without it, I would not be here.

Edited May 15 by diamond Marchant

[CaerolleClaudel]

3 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

i didn't actually say that the article was "non-political." Any article on a subject like this, indeed arguably any article at all, is "political" at least in the sense that it reflects the politicized assumptions and premises that its author brings to the table. This article is no exception.

What I said was that the article did not address the inclusion or exclusion of the LGBTQ+ per se: there is, as I noted, not a single mention of that subject in the article. The word "heteronormative" appears twice, and, yes, is a good signpost indicating this piece's ideological affiliations, but the term means a great deal more (and less) than whether or not a platform advertises how "inclusive" it is.

We can certainly discuss the embedded political perspective of this article; that would be relevant. But using it as a jumping off point to complain that LL is being "woke" or whatever in its welcoming message to new sign-ins who identify as LGBTQ+ is not because it's simply not something that the piece discusses.

Yes, mostly, it is. Because that is the focus of this particular article. This is a "think piece" that uses SL as an example of the ways in which failed or out-of-date code empowers users. It is not, as I've said, a "game review," nor does it make even a vague attempt to suggest ways in which SL might be made "better" or more popular: that's not its function.

Complaining that it doesn't is a bit like being upset that a spoon doesn't slice bread very well.

I think that this is a valid criticism of the article: while it does mention in passing that there have been improvements to the platform, it doesn't really address these very fully.

That said, you'll find no shortage of residents, here on this forum and elsewhere, who complain about how "broken," "out of date," and glitchy SL is. And in a sense, the perception (in the context of this article) is as important as the reality.

To repeat something I've said above, this article isn't written for us. Everything about it -- its language and use of specialized academic jargon, its obvious affiliations with certain kinds of academic theory and areas of study, its ideological assumptions -- indicates that it has been written for a relatively specialized audience. Reading this, I recognized immediately where it was coming from, and whom it was written for, because I have some familiarity with its milieu, and my own areas of specialization (which include academic feminism) overlap to some degree with it.

I think that the idea that this collection of academic jargon was published to deliberately raise the ire of non-specialist conservatives in order to garner clicks is silly. It would have been written differently, and much more accessibly had that been the case. But, sure.

That is not at all what this article says. Its thesis, again, is that the parts of the platform that don't work well actually empower users. It attributes SL's continued survival, to some degree, to it's 'brokenness."

This, to repeat, is not a game review. It's also not "journalism," in the conventional sense: it's a sub-academic think piece.

I will agree that, while the author clearly does have some familiarity with the platform, she has not spent enough time properly researching it. There are some truths here, but also a lot of half-truths, and a fair number of outright errors.

Again (sigh). This is not what the article says. In fact, it's nothing like what is actually written.

There are lots of valid things for which this article can be faulted. I've suggested more than a few myself.

But to judge it rationally, you need to 1) understand what it is actually says, and 2) not complain that it's not the kind of article (i.e., a game review) that you think or wish it was.

 

I keep wondering you now wish you had just shared this with a few people you felt might be interested and not posted it here lol. I'm glad you did, but a LOT of strawpersonning (how's *that* for a neologism lol...which use a lot myself, 'cause I like doing it, not to be cute or outre or fancy or anything...).

[CaerolleClaudel]

2 hours ago, Istelathis said:

We could, perhaps she would join in on our shenanigans on the forum

The Alice initiative, can be located on the info page on their site

https://alicebucknell.com/info

Perhaps some brave soul, will invite Alice to our conversation, I wonder what her take would be on our discussion on the article. 

Ha! I was right, they use 'they' not 'she.' And I guessed that without knowing a single thing about them beyond the article. My queerdar is pretty good methinks.

[diamond Marchant]

4 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

If the price of a Big Mac changes will that be considered 'news'?  lol

It recently happened. Saw this on the NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt

https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/mcdonald-s-expected-to-introduce-5-value-meal-in-response-to-customer-backlash-over-rising-prices-210771013839

(not sure if Big Macs got cheaper)

Edited May 15 by diamond Marchant

[Ceka Cianci]

I kinda stopped reading articles A while ago about SL.. Most of them are from people that Don't spend time here enough to know it.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

30 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Kind of a negative vibe... e.g. "decaying software and no-fun imperfections"  Was that really necessary?

It's absolutely central to their thesis, which is that those things are what makes SL interesting and still worthwhile. (Which I know sounds like a paradox, but it's literally the argument they are making.)

30 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

I view the problems related to vehicle travel as part of the fun.

This IS something the article could have discussed, because it's precisely in line with its argument. Good point! (Although, as someone who is an AWFUL driver, I'm not sure I agree!)

30 minutes ago, diamond Marchant said:

Second, as I have mentioned before, the quality of the shopping experience and the sublime nature of some digital assets are very compelling. Shopping is important to me and without it, I would not be here.

Yeah. I've mentioned above a few times that I think that the SL economy, the ecosystem of SL creation, and consumerism generally might be said to undercut their thesis.

Edited May 15 by Scylla Rhiadra
Typo

[Blaise Glendevon]

I thought the article was interesting, unlike some of the people who purported to abandon it mid-way. I made it three pages into the thread when the general and populist contempt for academic writing jumped out, and I'm going to abandon it instead.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

12 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I keep wondering you now wish you had just shared this with a few people you felt might be interested and not posted it here lol. I'm glad you did, but a LOT of strawpersonning (how's *that* for a neologism lol...which use a lot myself, 'cause I like doing it, not to be cute or outre or fancy or anything...).

Nah, all discussion is good. Even (*coughs*) "gaslighting" and "bad faith" arguments!

Another thing to sort of bear in mind: while this is not a peer-reviewed article, it is in a sense "academic." And academic writing is never intended to be the "last word" on its subject. One writes it not merely knowing that people will take issue with it, but with the intent that they will: it's supposed to be a part of an ongoing dialogue.

And that's true of any discipline, including STEM. How many papers in physics have taken issue with, corrected, or supplemented Einstein's work on relativity? (Answer: A LOT.) It's the process. I'd hope that if Bucknell ever does read what's in this thread, they'll engage with it as constructive critique in just that way.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

10 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

the general and populist contempt for academic writing

Yeah. There's been some of that generally.

I get it, sort of -- this stuff is densely written and jargon-laden, as any specialist discourse is bound to be to some degree.

But it's also very true that we live in an age that features many who, in the timeless words of Michael Gove, feel that "we've had enough of experts."

[CaerolleClaudel]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Nah, all discussion is good. Even (*coughs*) "gaslighting" and "bad faith" arguments!

Another thing to sort of bear in mind: while this is not a peer-reviewed article, it is in a sense "academic." And academic writing is never intended to be the "last word" on its subject. One writes it not merely knowing that people will take issue with it, but with the intent that they will: it's supposed to be a part of an ongoing dialogue.

And that's true of any discipline, including STEM. How many papers in physics have taken issue with, corrected, or supplemented Einstein's work on relativity? (Answer: A LOT.) It's the process. I'd hope that if Bucknell ever does read what's in this thread, they'll engage with it as constructive critique in just that way.

So will you be posting a link to an edgy take on some of Einstein's work, then?

(no reply needed, just being a smart ass lol)

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I just don't understand why the article had such a hostile tone to begin with. I know I'm harping on that point, but I'm still trying to figure out why cozy gamers caught strays in that piece. Was that really necessary? 

Though thankfully, the article that was linked to that point was a FAR more pleasant read about the state of that market.

Wait hang on, it could be a sentence structure thing here. The more I read it, the more I think they're using "ASMR-pilled" as a verb. Clumsy choice, but I still hate that phrase either way. Using "pilled" is about as effective as using a few other choice words that automatically make me ignore what someone has to say. 👀 

Yes, I'm petty.

[CaerolleClaudel]

29 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

It's absolutely central to their thesis, which is that those things are what makes SL interesting and still worthwhile. (Which I know sounds like a paradox, but it's literally the argument they are making.)

I understand their argument, but as I has said too many times in the Forum across almost two decades, I see the bugs as bugs and not features. I just want stuff to work and to work in a way that makes things easy for me, that's it. I get that a lot of people enjoying gaming the games, but I have a very different idea of fun than they do. I personally see the bugs as bugs and not as opportunities to explore and create and reworld (I am probably using that in the wrong context, sorry, I did not take the time to go back and read the article to see how it is really used there).

I guess I'll shut up about that, but I agree with the person upthread said 99% of the users would rather SL did not have those 'interesting' glitchy and clunky challenges to create and innovate against.

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah. There's been some of that generally.

I get it, sort of -- this stuff is densely written and jargon-laden, as any specialist discourse is bound to be to some degree.

But it's also very true that we live in an age that features many who, in the timeless words of Michael Gove, feel that "we've had enough of experts."

Phew! In thumbnail, I thought the above was a picture from the famous reading of, "My Pet Goat"!

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

The more I read it, the more I think they're using "ASMR-pilled" as a verb. Clumsy choice, but I still hate that phrase either way. Using "pilled" is about as effective as using a few other choice words that automatically make me ignore what someone has to say. 👀 

And is it the "Red Pill" or the "Blue Pill"?  I'm still hung up on "Reworlding".

[CaerolleClaudel]

5 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Wait hang on, it could be a sentence structure thing here. The more I read it, the more I think they're using "ASMR-pilled" as a verb. Clumsy choice, but I still hate that phrase either way. Using "pilled" is about as effective as using a few other choice words that automatically make me ignore what someone has to say. 👀 

I took it as a play on/de-arming 'red-pilled' but that is just me. In my mind, "ASMR-pilled' is really chilling down the phrase 'red-pilled,' sort of like putting a flower in the barrel of the automatic rifle of a soldier or cop with a nervous finger on the trigger. But sadly with the same degree of effectiveness.

[Luna Bliss]

ASMR-pilled    ;0

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

And is it the "Red Pill" or the "Blue Pill"?  I'm still hung up on "Reworlding".

Reworlding bothers me less. 😄 

There are just some words and phrases that really grind my gears. Don't know why. I guess it comes across as a bit immature, maybe? I don't know. Maybe it reminds me of Reddit slang or something.

 

3 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I took it as a play on/de-arming 'red-pilled' but that is just me. In my mind, "ASMR-pilled' is really chilling down the phrase 'red-pilled,' sort of like putting a flower in the barrel of the automatic rifle of a soldier or cop with a nervous finger on the trigger. But sadly with the same degree of effectiveness.

Yeah, I agree! I sort of understand what they were going for there, but I think there are much nicer ways to make that point in the article without all that. Besides, I looooove my cozy games and HATE ASMR. Maybe I just felt attacked. 😂

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

And is it the "Red Pill" or the "Blue Pill"?  I'm still hung up on "Reworlding".

Reworlding bothers me less. 😄 

There are just some words and phrases that really grind my gears. Don't know why. I guess it comes across as a bit immature, maybe? I don't know. Maybe it reminds me of Reddit slang or something.

"ASMR-pilled" reminds me of something Zal might say.

IJS..

 

[CaerolleClaudel]

Just now, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Reworlding bothers me less. 😄 

There are just some words and phrases that really grind my gears. Don't know why. I guess it comes across as a bit immature, maybe? I don't know. Maybe it reminds me of Reddit slang or something.

 

Yeah, I agree! I sort of understand what they were going for there, but I think there are much nicer ways to make that point in the article without all that. Besides, I looooove my cozy games and HATE ASMR. Maybe I just felt attacked. 😂

I do not see that in the least as being immature!! Perhaps you have not seen enough of my posts to know that I am pretty reactive (though doing a lot better these days, I think?) and a LOT of things grind my gears lol.

I personally love ASMR in general, and esp this one woman I follow on TikTok. However, I think I can relate to it being annoying or even triggering!! I cannot know what you are experiencing, ofc, but I wonder if it is something like the way I feel about people who are relentlessly cheerful and optimistic lol. Too much anodyning for me.

At least even if you feel attacked no actual practitioners or fans of ASMR will attack you either verbally or esp physically, or at least I would hope not!! That would seem to me to be a total betrayal of what ASMR is about lol.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I do not see that in the least as being immature!! Perhaps you have not seen enough of my posts to know that I am pretty reactive (though doing a lot better these days, I think?) and a LOT of things grind my gears lol.

Lol, oh no I meant the phrase itself seems a little immature to me. At least when placed in an academic article. It stood out in a big way.

 

3 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I personally love ASMR in general, and esp this one woman I follow on TikTok. However, I think I can relate to it being annoying or even triggering!! I cannot know what you are experiencing, ofc, but I wonder if it is something like the way I feel about people who are relentlessly cheerful and optimistic lol. Too much anodyning for me.

Something about the whispering, I think. Ugh, gives me the chills and NOT in a good way, lol. 

I mostly didn't like the fact that the writer associated people who like cozy games with people who like that sort of thing, and I'll tell ya right now - for me, ASMR is anything BUT cozy! Second Life is cozy. Stardew Valley is cozy. ASMR is nails on a chalkboard for me.

I do find it funny that that tiny phrase was enough to make me stop reading the article, though. I think I'm getting grumpier every year. 😄

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I do find it funny that that tiny phrase was enough to make me stop reading the article, though. I think I'm getting grumpier every year. 😄

I dunno.  For me, reading what I think is going to be a "serious" article is ruined by "in-words" unnecessarily sprinkled throughout. 

Like, if a Generation X were to read an article and run across "Skibidy toilet rizz" with no context.  Less "grumpy" than, "WTF?" with justifications.

Every generation "makes up new words", but we don't expect to run across them in media until they are somehow already "familiar".  Because of this idea in part, I agree with one of Scylla's assertions (to paraphrase), the article was not written for "us".

ETA: Unless of course, the author fancies themself a James Joyce. But Ulysses, the article ain't.

Edited May 15 by Love Zhaoying

[Scylla Rhiadra]

26 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I guess I'll shut up about that, but I agree with the person upthread said 99% of the users would rather SL did not have those 'interesting' glitchy and clunky challenges to create and innovate against.

Of course. Totally!

But again the piece isn't about "improving" SL: it's describing and analyzing the state the writer (apparently) found it in.

Interestingly, the one constituency of users who actually really DO love glitches is . . . griefers. Griefers look for ways to exploit bugs and glitches, both as a way of "subverting the system," and also, of course, because causing mayhem is their idea of fun.

What makes that sort of interesting is that there is a sort of historical and political connection between griefers and the ideological underpinnings of this article.

This piece celebrates the ways in which we exploit, circumvent, or adapt to bugs and interface faults because it sees that process as a subversion of the established mechanisms of power as embodied in the code, and the intent of the designers to control and limit our use of the platform to prescribed ways. That's the true burden of the term "heteronormative" in this article, which is kind of shorthand (I'm being a bit reductive here) for "fascist."

Hacktivists and a certain kind of ideologically-motivated griefer similarly view their exploitations of bugs, and their use of these to destabilize the platform and its users, as a sort of revolutionary act that attacks power.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But again the piece isn't about "improving" SL: it's describing and analyzing the state the writer (apparently) found it in.

Question, do you agree or disagree with my assertion that, not having seen anything in the article that could be identified as a "new thing" in Second Life, it could have been written awhile ago (or about a visit taken awhile ago) then rewritten and published now?