The real secret of Second Life

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I knew a guy in SL who was addicted to SL, a sex-addict in SL, and an alcoholic   

Sure and I know there are some creators who spend all their time on photoshop and blender to a point it would be considered workaholism. Some that spend all their time on the forum, some all their time inworld on various activities. Plenty of addictive style behaviours to go around.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I knew a guy in SL who was addicted to SL, a sex-addict in SL, and an alcoholic   

Sure and I know there are some creators who spend all their time on photoshop and blender to a point it would be considered workaholism. Some that spend all their time on the forum, some all their time inworld on various activities. Plenty of addictive style behaviours to go around.

Yes, and this just demonstrates that we need to be careful when labeling others as having an 'addiction'.  With the person I cited he self-labeled himself as having the 3 addictions.

'Addiction' is a very serious condition, and we minimize its seriousness by labeling habitual behavior as 'addiction'.

It's not the time spent on any life activity that denotes addiction -- it's when quality of life is diminished in some way.

Edited April 25 by Luna Bliss

[Ineffable Mote]

Gorging is gorging.

 

But I'll add that the only thing more certain than death and taxes is change.

[Luna Bliss]

19 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

From WebMD? Enough said, lol.

Hmmm...you seem to have trouble with any source I cite except the Kathlen Onyx source.

In any case, since you seem to have trouble with citing WebMD as a source (fair enough, some do) would this information be more to your liking regarding high-functioning addicts?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3883816/

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Ineffable Mote said:

Gorging is gorging.

 

But I'll add that the only thing more certain than death and taxes is change.

True that, but if we don't make a distinction on the nature of that gorging or the seriousness of it we aren't able to treat it accurately.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

They tend to only think they are functional because they went to work every day and could afford their booze but certainly would be changes how they interact with others.

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

Often high-functioning addicts do well at work, but when they come home they fall apart. Alcoholics have to drink at some point, right?  So that would be after work when with family and friends, and drinking causes dysfunction in reasoning so relationships are usually problematic, causing unhappiness.

I don't think we actually need to draw a sharp line between what is an alcoholic vs. someone who's alcohol dependent here. The discussion was on whether Second Life is addictive for some people, not on whether people in SL are or were alcoholics.

Video games are thought to be addictive through much the same neurochemical mechanism that gambling is addictive. It's not through a chemical dependence on alcohol or nicotine, but through a reaction to dopamine. Dopamine dependency is easier to overcome than a classic drug dependency because it's a neurochemical that the brain creates and regulates naturally. Substitution for other activities that create dopamine, such as physical exercise can help with the neurochemical aspect.

There are also personal psychological factors to addictive behaviors, however, which might be better addressed through therapy than through a game forum. 

For myself, I think SL gives me a virtual environment that feels safe, free and pleasant vs. a physical world that doesn't always feel safe, free or pleasant. SL lets people express themselves freely. It lets people interact with other people easily, and also lets them avoid interacting with people easily should they wish to do so.

I think much as eating junk food can feel good and be addictive, so can SL, but this doesn't necessarily mean that people who enjoy junk food or SL are addicts in the same way as one might have a drug or alcohol addiction. Playing in SL might also be a coping mechanism for some people, but this doesn't necessarily imply that this is a maladaptive coping mechanism for them.

p.s.

I guess it's OT from the rest of my post above, but part of why I quoted those 2 posts was that the idea of functional alcoholics reminded me of a junior high teacher who was rumored to be an alcoholic. The students said his coffee cup had alcohol in it. There is also behavior and an appearance some alcoholics have, that makes people think they might be alcoholics, so that even if they are functional, their social position might be inhibited.

People can be dependent on and misusing other drugs as well - Aderol, for instance - without it hurting their ability to be socially functional.

Edited April 25 by Persephone Emerald

[Arielle Popstar]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

True that, but if we don't make a distinction on the nature of that gorging or the seriousness of it we aren't able to treat it accurately.

Until someone sees it for themselves, it matters little anyway. A trusted friend might put the idea in one's head that too much time is being spent on an activity and that perhaps friends and family are starting to suffer from neglect alongside other negatives, but until the addict sees the reality of it themself and seeks out help, little benefit will result.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

True that, but if we don't make a distinction on the nature of that gorging or the seriousness of it we aren't able to treat it accurately.

Until someone sees it for themselves, it matters little anyway. A trusted friend might put the idea in one's head that too much time is being spent on an activity and that perhaps friends and family are starting to suffer from neglect alongside other negatives, but until the addict sees the reality of it themself and seeks out help, little benefit will result.

I'm speaking to treatment in a professional sense though.

[Luna Bliss]

Interesting article on why we need to stop calling everyone 'addicted':

https://www.nirandfar.com/stop-calling-everyone-addicted/

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Video games are thought to be addictive through much the same neurochemical mechanism that gambling is addictive. It's not through a chemical dependence on alcohol or nicotine, but through a reaction to dopamine. Dopamine dependency is easier to overcome than a classic drug dependency because it's a neurochemical that the brain creates and regulates naturally. Substitution for other activities that create dopamine, such as physical exercise can help with the neurochemical aspect.

I've read various articles through the years that question whether a chemical dependency is an actual dependence on a particular chemical but how it triggers the release of dopamine, serotonin and other natural mood enhancers and inhibitors within the body. The problem comes when these chemical triggers do that time after time the body stops triggering them naturally and in some cases never has been able to trigger them sufficiently strong enough for the addict to get the effect they are looking for. That may well be the reason why any drug has to be taken in increasing dosages to achieve the same effect. 

[Persephone Emerald]

21 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

True that, but if we don't make a distinction on the nature of that gorging or the seriousness of it we aren't able to treat it accurately.

Just to clarify, we are not here to diagnose or treat anyone's addictions or psychological issues. I think the reason we need to make clear distinctions and use words that others understand to mean what we think they mean is to facilitate a productive discussion. Otherwise we risk turning any interesting topic into a quagmire of derails and insults.

[Ineffable Mote]

10 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Until someone sees it for themselves, it matters little anyway. A trusted friend might put the idea in one's head that too much time is being spent on an activity and that perhaps friends and family are starting to suffer from neglect alongside other negatives, but until the addict sees the reality of it themself and seeks out help, little benefit will result.

Part of me wants to point out that there aren't enough mirrors in the world for some people, but otoh I've long ago realized that some people/things in these lives are more here for the purpose of demonstration anyways. 

[Arielle Popstar]

9 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm speaking to treatment in a professional sense though.

More can sometimes be accomplished by a trusted friend or associate that has had the problem and can relate, then a Professional. It is a trust issue. Professionals are in it for the money or it can seem that way vs a friend who who doesn't have anything to gain from it. 

[Persephone Emerald]

34 minutes ago, Ineffable Mote said:

Gorging is gorging.

 

But I'll add that the only thing more certain than death and taxes is change.

I'd add thread derails as well. 😄

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

28 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

True that, but if we don't make a distinction on the nature of that gorging or the seriousness of it we aren't able to treat it accurately.

Just to clarify, we are not here to diagnose or treat anyone's addictions or psychological issues. I think the reason we need to make clear distinctions and use words that others understand to mean what we think they mean is to facilitate a productive discussion. Otherwise we risk turning any interesting topic into a quagmire of derails and insults.

Agreed, but both you and Love began this discussion with a number of insults about me, pertaining to previous discussions we've had on this topic.

It might help for you to follow your own advice.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Agreed, but both you and Love began this discussion with a number of insults about me, pertaining to previous discussions we've had on this topic.

It might help for you to follow your own advice.

True that, but at least we were all being our true selves.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

14 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I'm speaking to treatment in a professional sense though.

More can sometimes be accomplished by a trusted friend or associate that has had the problem and can relate, then a Professional. It is a trust issue. Professionals are in it for the money or it can seem that way vs a friend who who doesn't have anything to gain from it. 

Friends who have gone through the issue themselves or understand it well can be just as helpful, agreed.

But all professionals aren't in it 'just for the money' -- many have a strong desire to help and even experienced difficulties in functioning themselves (it's what made them choose the profession).

However, I would never place total faith in either (friend or professional).  One needs to examine carefully the help they receive from anyone, and if it's not beneficial best to move on.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Ineffable Mote said:

Part of me wants to point out that there aren't enough mirrors in the world for some people, but otoh I've long ago realized that some people/things in these lives are more here for the purpose of demonstration anyways. 

True enough and I've heard it said and experienced to a degree that every bottom has a trap door for someone to fall further down if they are resistant to change.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Friends who have gone through the issue themselves or understand it well can be just as helpful, agreed.

But all professionals aren't in it 'just for the money' -- many have a strong desire to help and even experienced difficulties in functioning themselves (it's what made them choose the profession).

However, I would never place total faith in either (friend or professional).  One needs to examine carefully the help they receive from anyone, and if it's not beneficial best to move on.

Well I am meaning the initial contact before the habitual user/addict has seen that they may have a problem. Once they do and see the need for help rather than simply relying on their own willpower, they can commence to look about for the best place to get that help.

[Ineffable Mote]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

.. every bottom has a trap door for someone to fall further down if they are resistant to change.

It goes both ways, I think a lot depends on momentum too. I could say more but not sure how to express it clearly without veering into religious issues which I won't here, other than to say there are wheels of rebirth and even aside from that believe it or not change gets forced from wherever (via any number of places).

[Dyna Mole]

Hi gang!

As a gentle reminder, please remember that the focus of the thread is on SL, not on clinical discussions of addiction in RL. I know it's a fuzzy line, but try to stay on the SL side of it.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Ineffable Mote said:

It goes both ways, I think a lot depends on momentum too. I could say more but not sure how to express it clearly without veering into religious issues which I won't here, other than to say there are wheels of rebirth and even aside from that believe it or not change gets forced from wherever (via any number of places).

Yes, I understand where you are coming from i think and yes, not something that can be openly discussed here but it is a factor. It is why a 12 Step program worked for me where other recovery methods didn't.

[Luna Bliss]

I need to include what happened later in the story mentioned above (with the SL person addicted to SL, alcohol, and sex). A friend asked me to help this guy and I declined, but later the addicted individual messaged me and asked for a date, complaining he had nobody to 'be with' that day. SL can be a trip some days.

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

10 minutes ago, Ineffable Mote said:

It goes both ways, I think a lot depends on momentum too. I could say more but not sure how to express it clearly without veering into religious issues which I won't here, other than to say there are wheels of rebirth and even aside from that believe it or not change gets forced from wherever (via any number of places).

Yes, I understand where you are coming from i think and yes, not something that can be openly discussed here but it is a factor. It is why a 12 Step program worked for me where other recovery methods didn't.

I do believe (my perspecctive) that we are all on the planet growing toward a better way of being, or at the very least we should/could be.  No need to cite anything religious.

It's a shame when our participation in SL becomes a negative experience (an addiction as was cited by the OP) rather than an opportunity to grow in healthy ways.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

13 hours ago, Conifer Dada said:

Even those people who say SL and RL are one and the same and warn 'fakes' to stay away probably have a secret alt. or two for when they want to be 'fake' themselves!

We are all fakes to some degree 😂