Marketplace reviews, what is the point anymore.

[Softcakes]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Understood, of course I interpreted what you wrote as, "should be able to leave a review whether you bought it or not".

Yeah not that, that'd be terrible! XD

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Softcakes said:

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Understood, of course I interpreted what you wrote as, "should be able to leave a review whether you bought it or not".

Yeah not that, that'd be terrible! XD

Maybe you can agree that "allowing negative reviews without giving merchants a way to 'reply' to the review" is also a bad idea.

Personally, I think because of how Second Life works, allowing "stars without any review text" is a bad idea.  1) It elevates reviews by people who either did not read or understand the description, without educating people "why" they think it is "only" worth 3 stars. 2) It does not give merchants a way to understand and respond, so that everyone else knows for example "I only gave it 3 stars because there is no purple", and a useful reply "yes, purple is only in the fatpack".

 

[Softcakes]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Maybe you can agree that "allowing negative reviews without giving merchants a way to 'reply' to the review" is also a bad idea.

 

There is a button underneath reviews where you can leave replies to that specific review, I think only those who have bought or the seller themselves can reply, I get what you mean but that's a limited way of reply and many merchants will im the person; as has happened to me many times.

It's not the "fact checking," that maybe X/twitter has, where a big pop up says, "this person is false," that could be a better way, actually showcasing the sellers reply, not just hidden in a box.

I'm very much for a change in reviews and stars, it's very simple and easy in my mind to be abused by different parties, for trolling, gaming the system to get a bigger reach, and simply having your friends do you a favor.

Edited April 10 by Softcakes

[rasterscan]

20 hours ago, Softcakes said:

That would mean someone willingly spent money to grief another person, why?

Who knows. It's a hobby to some. When I first used the MP as a seller I was asking like 9 lindens for stuff, a bargain. But cheap as chips prices just made one starring a bargain bit of fun for those types. Upping the prices put a stop to it but the damage was already done and exists to this very day. (From 2017)

Edited April 10 by rasterscan

[Luna Bliss]

32 minutes ago, Softcakes said:

You don't believe me, then why do you care? Because you're a seller and haven't had this experience, okay?

I am also a consumer.  I've had mostly good responses when contacting a merchant about a problem. There was one merchant who ignored my request to redo her textures in 24 bit form instead of a 32 bit TGA where the cloth textures transparency conflicted with hair and trees. Another totally ignored a question from an alt. But overall I've found merchants to be very responsive and helpful, even with some of my dumb questions coming from someone who didn't understand mesh bodies and clothes over a year ago.

What I believe is that you had this horrible experience with a merchant that you've cited, that you believe you were right and he was wrong, and the powers-that-be sided with him and removed your review, pissing you off royally.  And now you seem to want to make a case that this happens all the time (fair reviews being taken down and a siding with the merchant over the consumer).  While I'm sure this has happened, I don't believe this is the norm. I think whoever does the reviews has more intelligence than you're giving them credit for.

[Luna Bliss]

42 minutes ago, Softcakes said:

More so meant that if you buy something you should be able to leave a review on that product, negative or good, if it goes one way it should apply to the other.

If most people were concerned about providing a review that would help other customers understand the item better I could see your point.

I don't see most reviews having this as motive though, even though you may want this and it would be nice feedback.  Most reviews are given by disgruntled customers and so the reviews skew to the negative. We simply don't hear as much from the pleased customer.

Sometimes the negative review is justified, yes, but often the customer simply didn't pay attention to what they purchased  (they complain that they purchased X and are unhappy that it is X even though the graphic and description on the MP said it was indeed X) and/or after purchase did not read instructions. We even have customers give a 1-star review because the MP did not deliver the item.

Merchants need protection from the above.

Consumers need protection too, and they could all have that if they'd write honest reviews with the intent of educating future consumers instead of using their review to punish a merchant.

[Dakota Linden]

Greetings, All!

Just to clear up any confusion. 

1. Merchants /can not/ remove a review from their listing.  They can flag the review and the Governance Team will review the report and if Governance Team member determines that the review does violate policy regarding Marketplace reviews, the review will be removed. 

2. Disabling and Relisting an item violates the policies regarding Marketplace Listings.  If you know or believe that an item is a relist, you can report the new listing by clicking on the Flag this item link and choosing the options Disallowed Listing Practices -> Item was Disabled and Relisted. 

3.  Merchants have ZERO control over deliveries through the Marketplace. The entire process is handled by the Marketplace system and is completely outside of the control of the Merchant/Seller.   If an item was bought through the Marketplace and it was not delivered, it is not appropriate, nor fair, to the seller to review the item with a 1 star review because of the failed delivery.  If the order completed and if the item is Copy Enabled and has Automatic Redelivery enabled, you can request a redelivery of the item through the Purchase Order Summary.  If a buyer purchased an item and there is no entry in their Purchase Order History on the Marketplace when something went wrong on the Marketplace itself and that should be reported either as a Support Ticket or a Bug Report.  Any review reporting a Failed Delivery will be removed.   

4. Off Topic reviews will also be removed.  If an item is listed correctly and a buyer leaves a negative review regarding something correctly noted in the listing, that review is subject to being removed. 

For instance, if a buyer uses the Lara X body and they buy an item that is listed as being compatible with other body types but the Lara X body is not on the list of compatible bodies, a review complaining that the item does not fit Lara X is not appropriate, nor fair, to the seller.   

The same with permissions on the listing.  If an item is listed as No Modify and a buyer leaves a negative review complaining that the item is No Modify, how is that review appropriate or fair? 

We did see this a lot when Mesh was first released and now with PBR.  Buyers purchase an item and then leave a negative review complaining that the Mesh isn't working or that the PBR textures do not look like the images on the listing but they were not using a Mesh capable viewer or are not using a PBR compatible viewer, how is that an appropriate or fair review of the item?

There is a difference between "I do not like this item" and "I bought this red colored item and I do not like it because it is red and it looks really red in world".  The first, while wholly unhelpful to the seller or anyone else reading the review, would not be removed; the second one would be removed. 

5.  Sellers and their Store Managers are the only ones who can reply to reviews on their listings.  Originally any user logged into the Marketplace could reply to a review, and while some replies were helpful, many were peanut gallery comments that bordered on abusive towards either the buyer or the seller.  

The Governance Team must ride a very fine line between allowing the buyer to review the items that they purchased while also trying to ensure that the Merchants/Sellers are not having inappropriate or unfair reviews left on their items.   This is NOT an easy thing to do.  Someone /will/ complain regardless of which decision was made. 

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Dakota Linden said:

There is a difference between "I do not like this item" and "I bought this red colored item and I do not like it because it is red and it looks really red in world".  The first, while wholly unhelpful to the seller or anyone else reading the review, would not be removed; the second one would be removed. 

This is an interesting distinction, thank you!

[Softcakes]

1 hour ago, Dakota Linden said:

4. Off Topic reviews will also be removed.  If an item is listed correctly and a buyer leaves a negative review regarding something correctly noted in the listing, that review is subject to being removed. 

Any review can be deemed off topic.

Every review is subject to being removed the moment a seller reports it and it almost always is.

That's what it's about, if I state many reasons why this item listed isn't as it was told to, sold as to be, or missing from the folder purchased, they can simply use "off topic," because of let's say my opinion slipped in at the end: After a fair and objective review that is wholly reasonable.

This is something that happens often; not just to me.

Edit: Would you happen to know why I can't delete a review on a given item?

And thx for the info :))

Edited April 10 by Softcakes

[Orwar]

1 hour ago, Dakota Linden said:

There is a difference between "I do not like this item" and "I bought this red colored item and I do not like it because it is red and it looks really red in world".  The first, while wholly unhelpful to the seller or anyone else reading the review, would not be removed; the second one would be removed.

   I'd interpret the second statement as 'item appears different than in the picture(s)', which could of course be a question of lighting and settings (such as having ALM off), or it could be that the images are misleading (using a Blender render, and/or photoshopping the advert - or even running it through AI filters, for example) - either which it might be, it might prompt people to make sure to actually view the item (if an in-world display is provided or a demo is available) before spending their money. If reviews are judged on eloquence and comprehensibility, reviews that pass would be a rarity, no? Not trying to argue with what you say, just, SL has a lot of users whose English might be a little fuzzy, which may of course make it a little difficult at times to immediately understand what exactly they perceive to be wrong with a product - but it may still be a valid criticism.

[Dakota Linden]

Hi Again!

Regarding Off Topic Reviews:

There are 3 sub options for reporting a review for being Off Topic.  

1. Reporting a Failed Delivery

2. Issue already noted in Description

3. Resized Mesh changes LI

I covered failed delivery reports separately in my previous post. 

Resized mesh affecting LI is something outside of the control of the seller.  This is purely something that happens in SL.  Therefore those reports are also removed since this is not something that the seller can control. 

This leaves us with the Issue already noted in the Description. 

This is the only one that the Merchant/Seller can control.  They do that by making sure they include information in their listing regarding the item and include pictures that clearly show the item. 

Using the example from my previous post, if an item is listed as being a Red item and the image on the item shows that the item is a red item, then a negative review reporting that a buyer doesn't like the item because it is red would be subject to having the review removed because the seller clearly noted that the item is red and the images show that the item is red. 

If the listing says the item is red and the image shows the item is red and a buyer gets an item that is Green and leaves a review saying that the item is Green, then their review would not be subject to being removed.  They are noting a clear issue with the item that was received in world that does not match the item sold in the listing. 

 

 

[Dakota Linden]

1 hour ago, Softcakes said:

Edit: Would you happen to know why I can't delete a review on a given item?

This sounds like a bug. 

If you click on the Delete Review link and you receive the pop up confirmation and can click on the Ok button to delete the review but the review does not delete or you receive an error message, then that is a problem that needs to be reported as a Bug so that the Engineers can investigate. 

Customer Support /can/ delete the review for you, but you will be unable to leave a new review on the listing. 

[Softcakes]

9 minutes ago, Dakota Linden said:

This sounds like a bug. 

If you click on the Delete Review link and you receive the pop up confirmation and can click on the Ok button to delete the review but the review does not delete or you receive an error message, then that is a problem that needs to be reported as a Bug so that the Engineers can investigate. 

Customer Support /can/ delete the review for you, but you will be unable to leave a new review on the listing. 

Thanks for the response.

I created a ticket for it, no conformation appears as it simply states.  

[Codex Alpha]

Much like in review sections in RL, on Yelp, Google or even a department store site, reviews don't really help anymore as they are mostly polarized.

You'll have reviews with 5 stars heralding the product as the most amazing thing out there, and then there will be 1-star ratings claiming they are the worst thing ever, scam, ripoff, etc.

This is why with reviews, it seems only the most happiest and the most angriest people leave a review.

In SL, in general, people will buy your product and not leave a review because they are satisfied. It is very RARE to get any review nowadays - I notice that products from 10+ years ago have much more participation, but nowadays people don't bother for the most part.

The reviews I get are of course polarized as well.

Most, if not all of the 'negative' reviews I've gotten have mainly been user error, misunderstanding, or even now with PBR and even FULL SL Texture sets - get angry complaints because those users do not have ALM or ability to see PBR.

The problem is, I and other creators will bend over backwards to make these customers happy, or to educate them... and our $40 cents of profit long out the window... will solve their issue, yet their INACCURATE review remains on your product. You can report it, and LL comes and sees and thinks "Well that's a legit review with concerns, why is he flagging this 1 star review?"

Why? Because there is no option for us to have a 'customer problem resolved' on the  product, even if the issues were legit and were fixed (with a product update).

I've had several listings have low ratings due to ALM in the past that kept their low ratings even though I responded inworld and on the listing, AND YES THEIR SALES WENT DOWN - on perfectly good products!

Reviews without context, reviews without ability to 'resolve' them if they are negative, and reviews that don't actually help improve the product, are no help at all - and could actually damage the listing and potential sales...

"I would have given this 5 stars, but it didn't come in blue, the textures don't look inworld as do in pictures (Even though I take pictures in HIGH NOON ugliest light because if it looks good there, it will look good anywhere!), and it is  nomod/copy, etc - so I gave it 1-3 stars..."

The flag mechanism needs a "I believe this review is outdated/irrelevant/problem solved" or yes, some creators may be tempted to relist - and for LEGITIMATE (even if illegal to do).

The result on some listings is I just remove them, and the experience(s) have a longer lasting impact that I am now discouraged from putting up more stuff (especially PBR) as I don't want to waste my time until it's guaranteed the product will be represented properly - OR having an option to remove 'reviews' that are just  bug reports and complaints.

[Kathlen Onyx]

I rarely look at reviews. Most have only 1-5 reviews and those are the ones that are suspect. Anyone can create 5 alts and submit a review.

The only reviews I "may" take seriously are ones that have 20+ -40 reviews. 

You can be sure that ones that have VERY high positive reviews the store has given out an incentive to post a review, such as a newly released TV. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

6 minutes ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

I rarely look at reviews. Most have only 1-5 reviews and those are the ones that are suspect. Anyone can create 5 alts and submit a review.

The only reviews I "may" take seriously are ones that have 20+ -40 reviews. 

You can be sure that ones that have VERY high positive reviews the store has given out an incentive to post a review, such as a newly released TV. 

I do frequently leave reviews -- and often positive ones, especially if there's been an instance of real great customer support. In fact, I've actually bought items from a store's MP just so I could leave a positive review, when I've had problems with something I bought in-world that were resolved by the maker.

I also read reviews, but I discount ones that don't explain why they are positive or negative. Just, "Looks great!" or "not worth the price" isn't going to persuade me one way or another. I also pay attention to responses to reviews, sometimes by the creators themselves -- I wish more creators would do this.

I don't generally buy things that don't have a demo anyway, so I usually have an opportunity to "test" the veracity of the review.

Edited April 25 by Scylla Rhiadra