What Is Love In This Virtual World?

[Arielle Popstar]

35 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

[Rat Luv]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

"Video unavailable" 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Rat Luv said:

"Video unavailable" 

Yes , that was my point. I took that gyzo image from your post.

[Rat Luv]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Yes , that was my point. I took that gyzo image from your post.

Oh lol, I thought you had replied with another video 🥴

Maybe this will work...

 

[Luna Bliss]

I learned so much about love @ my shamanic healing class tonight -- I am on cloud 9!

[Luna Bliss]

55 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said:

*resists the urge to break out into an all-caps a capella version of the John Lennon's Love*

*settles for another cup of coffee*

Dooo ittttttt!!!!!!

[Luna Bliss]

The power of  ℒ❤ѵ ℯ   is   *¨  ♥ Ɓﻉαʋϯιʄʋℓ❣ ♥¨*

☚☚ Ɓℓσωѕ Ɣσυ α Ķιѕѕ❣ ❤ ✫¨*•.¸ღ

 ¯`°.•۞•.★*● Ѽ○○Ƿ! Ѽ○○○Ƿ! ●*★ .•۞•.°´¯
 
   ♫ Ѕυгε ғεεls ɢσσd τσ ϻε ♥(ˆ⌣ˆԅ) ♪

 

[PheebyKatz]

I'd start singing, but then I'd end up being enticed into something like Come Sail Away, and once I started I'd have to sing the whole thing.

Trust me, you don't want that in your thread.

XD

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The power of  ℒ❤ѵ ℯ   is   *¨  ♥ Ɓﻉαʋϯιʄʋℓ❣ ♥¨*

☚☚ Ɓℓσωѕ Ɣσυ α Ķιѕѕ❣ ❤ ✫¨*•.¸ღ

 ¯`°.•۞•.★*● Ѽ○○Ƿ! Ѽ○○○Ƿ! ●*★ .•۞•.°´¯
 
   ♫ Ѕυгε ғεεls ɢσσd τσ ϻε ♥(ˆ⌣ˆԅ) ♪

 

It's all light and pink and fluffy unicorns until that love starts being tested. That's when the realization comes that to truly love requires the sacrifice of some long lovingly held beliefs to go on the altar and given up to attain a higher level.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

13 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

The power of  ℒ❤ѵ ℯ   is   *¨  ♥ Ɓﻉαʋϯιʄʋℓ❣ ♥¨*

☚☚ Ɓℓσωѕ Ɣσυ α Ķιѕѕ❣ ❤ ✫¨*•.¸ღ

 ¯`°.•۞•.★*● Ѽ○○Ƿ! Ѽ○○○Ƿ! ●*★ .•۞•.°´¯
 
   ♫ Ѕυгε ғεεls ɢσσd τσ ϻε ♥(ˆ⌣ˆԅ) ♪

 

Expand  

It's all light and pink and fluffy unicorns until that love starts being tested. That's when the realization comes that to truly love requires the sacrifice of some long lovingly held beliefs to go on the altar and given up to attain a higher level.

My happiness comes from letting go of some blocks that prevented me from knowing the deeper kind of love you address...it's a cause for celebration...

[Luna Bliss]

 

[Love Zhaoying]

6 hours ago, Rat Luv said:

Oh lol, I thought you had replied with another video 🥴

Maybe this will work...

 

I resemble that remark!

[Luna Bliss]

9 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

It's all light and pink and fluffy unicorns until that love starts being tested. That's when the realization comes that to truly love requires the sacrifice of some long lovingly held beliefs to go on the altar and given up to attain a higher level.

Your description of moving to a new level sounds so harsh here, like whipping yourself, viewed as a bad person, into shape with severe discipline. It reminds me of 'the punishing God' types of philosophies.

I think letting go of an old way that doesn't work for us anymore and moving to the next level can be done with love. One might cry (I know I did last night @ the shamanic healing class in SL), but it was a refreshing kind of crying along with a realization of how the old way simply didn't fit for me anymore. I had not been 'bad' and there was nothing to "sacrifice". This new way was joyous and filled with promise and overtook the old, unneeded way.

[Love Zhaoying]

There is indeed a real, even "canon" in some spiritual areas, "Tough Love". 

I'm not sure how that could apply in Second Life except (for example) when trying to convince a friend that they need to stop using Second Life so much.

 

[Luna Bliss]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

There is indeed a real, even "canon" in some spiritual areas, "Tough Love". 

I'm not sure how that could apply in Second Life except (for example) when trying to convince a friend that they need to stop using Second Life so much.

 

Yeah I agree sometimes we need to apply some pressure to ourselves or others when they (or we) are being destructive to self or others. But I'd try a less invasive tactic first, and I think most typical types of growth can be accomplished without being too harsh.

Even with your hypothetical friend who was using SL too much, rather than condemning him or trying to convince him he was 'bad' for participating in this behavior (not saying you would do this, but it's often a way one person tries to force another to change) a better result might be had by helping him see what was possible in other areas of his life -- once someone feels enthused about a new life the old one often fades away without much force.

Edited January 31 by Luna Bliss

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

rather than condemning him or trying to convince him he was 'bad' for participating in this behavior

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

(not saying you would do this, but it's often a way one person tries to force another to change)

Correct - neither of your options above are implied by "Tough Love".

In fact, I disagree that "forcing" someone to change is even a viable concept - ever. Unless you are "institutionalizing" someone, "incarcerating" them, or "medicating" them.  People will do whatever their past tendencies (aka karmas, etc.) lead them to do.  Not even "interventions" force someone to change. One example exception is when RL parents have "real control" over their children.

"Tough Love" may not always FEEL like "Love" but comes from the right place.

The example I have from my own SL is, when my original partner (who was in a different timezone) spent too much time in SL partly to spend time with me instead of in their college studies. Had I KNOWN of the situation I could have used "tough love" in some way to help convince them that their studies are more important.  In that case, "tough love" could have taken the form of "removing myself from the situation" after discussing it.  

Again in this specific example, I cannot judge too much because I myself used the "early proto-internet" (BITNET) back in college when I should have been studying.  And I turned out OK except for being strange, but I was already strange.  This was my ultimate destiny so I don't regret it.

My friend ended up dropping out of college and becoming a successful bureaucrat.  That was HIS ultimate destiny, so I hope he doesn't regret it.  That doesn't mean I shouldn't have spoken up with some "Tough Love", had I known what would happen.  

Since none of us know someone else's full past, present, future, and karmas, I don't think we are really qualified except to "help out when it seems obvious".

 

 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

In fact, I disagree that "forcing" someone to change is even a viable concept - ever. Unless you are "institutionalizing" someone, "incarcerating" them, or "medicating" them.  People will do whatever their past tendencies (aka karmas, etc.) lead them to do.  Not even "interventions" force someone to change. One example exception is when RL parents have "real control" over their children.

I'm defining 'force' as applying pressure in varying degrees so that another will change their behavior. Likely the word 'manipulate' would have been a better word for me to use, however.

I don't like applying pressure on someone to change their behavior unless necessary, and for me if someone is being destructive to self or others then it becomes necessary to intervene. How destructive one would have to be before intervention would depend on the situation.

I think it would have been great had you been able to intervene and provide some pressure in the direction of your friends well-being who was spending too much time in SL and shirking his studies. And as you said, if you'd have known you would have removed yourself as that was what was causing him to spend so much time in SL (you were an unwitting enabler to his apparently destructive behavior).
Removing yourself from interaction with him would be setting a boundary or applying a little force/assertiveness in hopes it would set him on the right track. Caution would be needed, however, as there could be other reasons he wasn't focusing on his studies and so perhaps in need of therapy -- we just don't know what the result can be when a psychological defense is removed and someone has to cope with their pain.
Plus, like you say, it could be their Karma.

Anyway, one must be careful in utilizing a 'tough love' approach because often we don't know all the details.
For example, say someone is an addict. Everyone knows they drink because they can't face certain painful aspects in their life, so they drink to cover it up. However we wouldn't want to apply pressure/intervene unless we knew they had a support system in place to help them navigate that pain. If they didn't, the results could be disastrous if they felt overwhelming pain and didn't know how to cope with it. Likewise regarding those who spend too much time in SL, it could be they need their defense against pain via spending large amounts of time in SL, and we simply don't know what might happen for them if SL was taken away and they had no means to cope without it.

So basically if we apply consequences to others behavior we need to be careful.  Tough love calls for a certain level of severity, but never for a lack of humanity or empathy.
There's a thin line between tough love and emotional abuse, and in too many cases it's used abusively to try and force another to do what we want (not actually caring about what's best for them). This happened as the 'tough love' meme spread out into society and began to be distorted and misused.

   Alternatives to Tough Love  (and applies to SL addiction too)

While tough love can sometimes force people with substance and alcohol use disorders into treatment, research suggests that more empathetic, voluntary approaches are more effective.

For example, studies have shown that a program known as Community Reinforcement and Family Training (CRAFT) can help people encourage their loved ones to seek treatment. The program uses behavioral principles to reduce substance use, encourage treatment, and reduce the stress felt by the individual's loved ones.5

Using the CRAFT approach, loved ones reinforce positive behaviors and avoid reinforcing negative behaviors. The approach is not only more compassionate, it also tends to be much more effective.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-tough-love-22418

[InnerCity Elf]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:40 AM, Midnoot said:

I don't think it's " love " to remain level headed when everyone else is being unreasonable :p.

In my day job, I call it "kill'em with kindness", love might cause additional issues :). Usually, a good tactic. And means that I feel there might still be some kind of hope for them to become reasonably level headed. Until I feel there isn't, then it's neither love nor kindness, but exquisite politeness. 😄

 

Anyway. SL and love... SL might have taught me that I can develop some kind of love towards people I never met and most probably will never meet, while not even feeling sad about it. 

[Luna Bliss]

1 hour ago, InnerCity Elf said:

On 1/29/2024 at 6:40 PM, Midnoot said:

I don't think it's " love " to remain level headed when everyone else is being unreasonable :p.

In my day job, I call it "kill'em with kindness", love might cause additional issues :). Usually, a good tactic. And means that I feel there might still be some kind of hope for them to become reasonably level headed. Until I feel there isn't, then it's neither love nor kindness, but exquisite politeness. 😄

Ohh...I see why the two of you don't see my opening paragraph as exhibiting love. I'll try to explain why (for me) it was 'love' and not just being level-headed.

Many philosophies that deal with the way in which human beings evolve over their lifetimes (or can) note that as people mature they tend to give back to society more as opposed to primarily utilizing those around them to fill their needs.  Our egos begin to respond to the needs of others around us, to take other parts of reality into account as opposed to only or primarily considering our own needs. We are then able to love or appreciate the world for what it is as opposed to loving it only for what it can give us.

Not that we never need from the world, but as we mature (hopefully) we are able to use our talents we develop over a lifetime and give back. For example, babies, other than looking cute and providing us with the promise of new life, haven't had the time to develop the talents that hopefully will manifest in later life.

It's been noted that the happiest people are able to give to society (be it in their jobs, or with people around them). So there is a marker we can see that measures when a person progresses in a healthy way.

Anyway, the movement toward love (the ability to appreciate the world in terms of what it is as opposed to only what we can take from it or what we think we need it for in order to maintain our ego), manifests in our interactions with others.  In my experience with the upset customer I was able to put aside my needs and respond to his -- I was concerned about him, as my customer who was having trouble understanding my complex item, and wanted to help him even though he was being a major asshat. I didn't feel the need to strike back since he was mean to me first. I didn't feel the need to 'put him in his place'.  I didn't feel the need to not respond to him since he did not approach me correctly. Instead, I responded with love, with concern for what he might be going through and my needs took a backseat. For me, that's an example of 'love' --  the maturity we need to be embodying, a concern for what is beyond our own ego noses, if we want to have a better world.

He felt that love, and responded with a profuse apology.  I don't think he would have apologized if I'd let my ego get the best of me and responded to his anger with anger of my own.

 

Edited January 31 by Luna Bliss

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:19 PM, Luna Bliss said:

I'm always amazed at what can be learned in a virtual world.  I think I've told the story before about one of my Second Life store customers who sent an email to me, using so much profanity that I had to look up some of the words I'd never heard before.  He was pissed!

Upon opening the email I kind of went into shock just reading the major fit he was having.

I imagine most would shoot something angry back at him, and maybe I would have in the past, or at the very least be a little snarky. And then he would have responded back with hate and angry words and nothing good would have come from the interaction.  But I tried something different -- I responded in love. I simply asked him to describe the problem in a clearer manner and explained he was the first to have such trouble with this particular product.

The next day I got an email from him apologizing profusely, explaining that he was drunk and incompetent but that now all was well with his item.

This is when I learned how love/acceptance can change hate/anger into love.  It's very easy to diffuse the feelings of angry/upset people -- don't reflect it back to them.  Instead send back love. It can change everything!

I've tried this numerous times and it's amazing.

So have you learned or experienced anything about love in Second Life?   Please share your experience -- kindness showed to others, romantic love, friendship...whatever. All worlds are ripe for learning.

Answer to your question: "A second-hand emotion." It's all virtual, even if the people are real and do experience real feelings. But at the end, you can't take it with you.

The number of people driving-SL-while-drunk is always high as some people think that they can cover up their alcoholism and drinking alone by talking to others in SL -- and generally being annoying and abusive and not even remembering it the next day. It's awful, and they should have AA chapters in SL.

 

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

they should have AA chapters in SL

Totally agree...if they aren't here already.  Never checked that.

[Luna Bliss]

3 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

Answer to your question: "A second-hand emotion." It's all virtual, even if the people are real and do experience real feelings. But at the end, you can't take it with you.

But I take it with me, and so do many others.

[Prokofy Neva]

19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

But I take it with me, and so do many others.

I personally can't take my most beloved friend in SL, 3461 miles away, with me into my RL here because of distances, passports, visas, the cost of plane tickets and hotels, and COVID -- for the immunocompromised. Plus who knows, sometimes SL relationships that can overlook a lot of RL realities evaporate on contact with real life.

So maybe you have magic teleportation powers; I don't. The bonds of friendship in SL are real and I have had some for the entire 20 years I've been in SL. But at the end of the day, they can't take me to the hospital and pick me up, they are across the country or across the globe. It's just the reality of virtuality.

[InnerCity Elf]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Ohh...I see why the two of you don't see my opening paragraph as exhibiting love. I'll try to explain why (for me) it was 'love' and not just being level-headed.

Oh, I did, but thank you for taking the time to explain.

[Ceka Cianci]

19 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

My happiness comes from letting go of some blocks that prevented me from knowing the deeper kind of love you address...it's a cause for celebration...

Looks like another love T.K.O.