Scylla Rhiadra Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I don't think that was the intention of reflection probes, to show "sun and clouds" all the time, even indoors. No, on the contrary, reflection probes are supposed to disable that. I hadn't thought of the clouds issue which Orwar raised. If an autoprobe is simply capturing an "image" of the sky, then of course that will include clouds. I wonder if Fameshed is using reflection probes? I'll have to wander by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: I don't know, Ceka. Making a simple autoprobe for a rectangular space takes about 30 seconds. You could probably fill the average LH with autoprobes in 10 mins or less. That's going to be beyond the capacity of a lot of residents, who will take one look at the "instructions" and probably shut the window immediately. But it really shouldn't be a problem for Moles. What they could do is build a set of autoprobes, package them up with simple instructions on placement, and send them to the appropriate home owner. Or just include them in the pack of textures and stuff that comes with each LH. If LL isn't going to do what for them is the fairly minimal work in deploying probes for residents for whom they are landlords, it's a bit much to expect everyone else to do so. Which does seem to be what LL expects, in fact. I just wonder if they will keep their sections like time capsules though.. Because they could do that for each house, but there are so many of them on the grid and so much other stuff to do.. Maybe after they get PBR where they want it, they will? They still have all those other linden homes also, that aren't Belli homes too. hehehe Myself I like PBR and am finally getting my lighting and things worked out and am running nice with my viewers. But it's an addition to the curve, that's for sure.. hehehe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 8 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: That's going to be beyond the capacity of a lot of residents, who will take one look at the "instructions" and probably shut the window immediately. Yeah, because it's a weird ask. The platform is basically telling a bunch of people who log in to hang out and chat and maybe play house to set up their own lighting environment before they get to the fun stuff. I can't think of a single other game or platform that does this. Sure, come on in and play, but first, lemme toss you some instructions on how to set up reflection probes... I get that SL is fully user-made and these types of things become the norm as a result, but it's still a lot to expect the average social user to do. Those who come to design and decorate might not mind so much, of course. Having that set up ahead of time is a good idea. Almost necessary IMO. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 11 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: 16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: ..and I did have a probe set to just the interior of the cave. Really! Weird. Did you fiddle with the ambient settings to see if you could remove it? Back then, there wasn't clear advice on what to do. When I posted on the Forum about it back then, nobody gave any advice. Of course, now a lot more people use probes so, I could probably get advice on how to correct it. Or, it may turn out to be an EEP tweak (which wouldn't work for the pictures shown above if everyone didn't use the shared EEP) such as used to fix the "blue tint" as I recall reading recently.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Istelathis Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 20 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Cube Republic's PBR desert trees are to die for (@ Fameshed). Going to landscape Trompe Loeil's new desert home with them. Hope the white on the desert home can be shaded a bit (white hurts my eyes). This spending splurge is all the fault of @Blush Bravin because she mentioned Fameshed!!! ;0 You might like Akimitsu, which has a bunch of different scenes showcasing PBR from my understanding. Linden's viewer is not showing the reflections of the ground properly (still?) The above picture is using window's default prtsc, PBR is still buggy, there is flickering on the ground while walking and the reflections are not rendered properly. Here the region is in Destinations: https://secondlife.com/destination/akimitsu It is pretty big, the spot I am in is here: Why hello! I'm enjoying my evil mermaid outfit here The location I am in, with all of the exhibits: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Akimitsu/53/160/2683 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 3 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: Yeah, because it's a weird ask. The platform is basically telling a bunch of people who log in to hang out and chat and maybe play house to set up their own lighting environment before they get to the fun stuff. I can't think of a single other game or platform that does this. Sure, come on in and play, but first, lemme toss you some instructions on how to set up reflection probes... I get that SL is fully user-made and these types of things become the norm as a result, but it's still a lot to expect the average social user to do. Those who come to design and decorate might not mind so much, of course. Having that set up ahead of time is a good idea. Almost necessary IMO. Yes, exactly: this has been one of my main objections to the way in which PBR has been introduced from the get-go. The learning curve, especially for reflection probes, is pretty high for non-tech types who, as you say, just want to shop, socialize, and play house, and it's asking residents to do what in any other platform or game would be done by the game developers themselves. Again, the "selling point" of PBR was that it was going to make everyone's SL look much much better and "more realistic." And for a great many people, it's actually made it look worse -- in part because LL neglected to do the work (such as updating EEPs) or write the simple documentation that would have made that true. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Back then, there wasn't clear advice on what to do. When I posted on the Forum about it back then, nobody gave any advice. Of course, now a lot more people use probes so, I could probably get advice on how to correct it. Or, it may turn out to be an EEP tweak (which wouldn't work for the pictures shown above if everyone didn't use the shared EEP) such as used to fix the "blue tint" as I recall reading recently. Well, now I am curious. I seldom use flooring, or indeed any surfaces, that are shiny enough to reflect the sky (other than that blue tint in older EEPs), so I haven't seen that effect. Now I need to experiment and see if it's something that's "fixable." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 I think we'll see a lot of overdoing it at first in quite a few places, kind of like feeling it out, like say with CGI.. You have some that will go full on, show that PBR off.. Then we'll have those that will use it to where you don't notice it even being used.. I think that's where it is really gonna shine, no pun intended.. hehehe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 44 minutes ago, Orwar said: The floors look nice .. Buuut it's not as if you can't achieve that look with Blinn-Phong. https://i.gyazo.com/156325465c887da662df42c70c19bc09.mp4 https://i.gyazo.com/621bc4fbd6de2bd186bd5d4aa8462cfc.mp4 Probably could have used a brighter example as the wood isn't as reflective. So, here's just a flat white surface with a flat white specular to it: https://i.gyazo.com/f43b7770f67e6e6752c055199a4af8f4.mp4 "But, that's not white?!". Well yes it is - but the light isn't. https://i.gyazo.com/2eb99cda124906cd2be67dbbcee7a109.mp4 I swung by to have a closer look at the floors at Fameshed, at a distance it looks all right but if you zoom in a little closer it just looks like someone spilled out a barrel of lacquer. There's no depth to it (something we've had in normals for years) and the shine appears to be very flat and low-resolution (probably because of how large the repetitions are). I also looked up to see where all these light sources were .. It's just invisible light prims spread out all over the place. Not to clank down too hard on the builder, but couldn't they at least have put up some spotlights to make it seem as if the light actually came from somewhere? Immersion broken! And then, there's this .. Which is two things. The ambient blue flooding the PBR shininess, which is the same thing that makes all PBR latex look like utter crap in 99% of the EEP settings, and what's that bright white, you may wonder? Clouds. Clouds reflecting in a shiny floor in a room with a ceiling. PBR 'wow' indeed. It would have looked better without it. As for the actual metal parts .. Eh, it looks pretty cool. But. I dunno, was it worth it? https://i.gyazo.com/c92dd6e64cca27f81c1459e21e5ef79a.mp4 Where you using the shared environment? I didn't see that blue glow anywhere when I was there. And while not having a visible light source may break immersion if it helps with things rendering so quickly, I'll gladly take the trade off. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, Blush Bravin said: But, I honestly don't know how many people are truly holding back upgrading to a PBR viewer because I don't personally know anyone that is doing that. I mostly hear it here in the forums from a very vocal small group. From what I understand, not even the Firestorm team can really determine how many are actually using their PBR viewer, and how many have reverted back to a pre-PBR version. I assume LL knows, or could find out, but they ain't saying. (And in fact aren't saying much of anything right now, for whatever reason.) My own entirely anecdotal experience, based on chats at clubs and with friends, and also what I've seen group chats (where complaints about PBR are still surfacing daily) suggests that a significant portion of people aren't using PBR. Comments like "half of the people I know" are clearly unsubstantiated and almost certainly exaggerations, but the only actual survey I've seen, on Primfeed with 100 respondents, said that 74% were using a PBR viewer, and the remainder split between those who were waiting for a new, less laggy version of FS, and those who said they'd never use PBR. (The latter is also almost certainly an exaggeration.) Most of our sense of how this is working will come from indirect indications. How quickly is PBR adopted by creators? Can FS retain its "market share" of resident users? Is concurrency taking a sufficient hit that it seems evident that it's been affected by PBR? And so on. SL will weather this storm, as it as weathered others in the past, but I think the jury is still out on the ultimate impact. In real terms, a loss of even 5% or 10% of residents would be hugely significant. But I don't think it's going to be so high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Republic Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 45 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: Cube Republic's PBR desert trees are to die for (@ Fameshed). Going to landscape Trompe Loeil's new desert home with them. Hope the white on the desert home can be shaded a bit (white hurts my eyes). This spending splurge is all the fault of @Blush Bravin because she mentioned Fameshed!!! ;0 Thank you for the compliment Luna. I've been so burnt this week with an insect invasion and subsequent alergy that I didn't have time to focus at the end. I'm sending a big update out later today. I've halved the land impact almost on most of them, played with the colour a bit and added a lot more foliage, so they're much more bushy and full. I'm so happy with them now, I'm also adding another 3 or 4 designs. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: It's definitely down to taste preferences, for sure. I understand why people like it. I just don't find that level of shine (on the curtains) to be realistic at all. A dull, muted textured sheen like silk or satin without the gloss, absolutely, but they cranked it a bit too far into the plastic/PVC zone IMO. I worked in an upscale fabric shop during my college days. The drapes look very much like the type of bridal satin I sold. Edited August 3 by Blush Bravin 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 12 minutes ago, Cube Republic said: Thank you for the compliment Luna. I've been so burnt this week with an insect invasion and subsequent alergy that I didn't have time to focus at the end. I'm sending a big update out later today. I've halved the land impact almost on most of them, played with the colour a bit and added a lot more foliage, so they're much more bushy and full. I'm so happy with them now, I'm also adding another 3 or 4 designs. Orange oil and dawn will take care of most things.. We had a lot of fire ant mounds getting close to the house and that ran them off.. It's hard to run off fire ants too.. They usually just relocate, but that must have been something they set word out on that they wanted nothing to do with.. hehehe It has to be the pretty pure oil too without emulsifiers in it. The brand we used is called Green Gobbler.. It works really good and is environmentally safe.. just don't get it on you.. lol I was only able to find it on Amazon. It's really an all purpose cleaner made from orange peels.. Blue Dawn and Green Gobbler orange oil.. We made a 5 gallon bucket with a mixture of 8 ounces of orange oil and 14 ounces of blue down. Either one on it's own will still work.. Blue down breaks down any of the little hairs they have that protect them from water and orange oil breaks down their exoskeletons.. A lot of bugs will just turn and run from Orange oil.. We circles a few ants on the ground with out mixture to see if they would run away.. when they got close and got a wiff, they started to die.. it's good stuff.. hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Republic Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 4 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Orange oil and dawn will take care of most things.. We had a lot of fire ant mounds getting close to the house and that ran them off.. It's hard to run off fire ants too.. They usually just relocate, but that must have been something they set word out on that they wanted nothing to do with.. hehehe It has to be the pretty pure oil too without emulsifiers in it. The brand we used is called Green Gobbler.. It works really good and is environmentally safe.. just don't get it on you.. lol I was only able to find it on Amazon. It's really an all purpose cleaner made from orange peels.. Blue Dawn and Green Gobbler orange oil.. We made a 5 gallon bucket with a mixture of 8 ounces of orange oil and 14 ounces of blue down. Either one on it's own will still work.. Blue down breaks down any of the little hairs they have that protect them from water and orange oil breaks down their exoskeletons.. A lot of bugs will just turn and run from Orange oil.. We circles a few ants on the ground with out mixture to see if they would run away.. when they got close and got a wiff, they started to die.. it's good stuff.. hehehe This was ticks, I removed one between my toes and got quite blisterd. We're keeping an eye on it, we do have a version of lymes in Brazil, but it's not as bad as the NA variety. It's like the power of 50 mosquito bites all at once though! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 39 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Well, now I am curious. I seldom use flooring, or indeed any surfaces, that are shiny enough to reflect the sky (other than that blue tint in older EEPs), so I haven't seen that effect. Now I need to experiment and see if it's something that's "fixable." Tag me if you post about it or message me, lest I miss it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frionil Fang Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: "snapshot" of only the content of that probe, 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: I don't think that was the intention of reflection probes, to show "sun and clouds" all the time, even indoors Reflection probes take a snapshot with a draw distance of 64 meters (adjustable via debug settings, minus about 25 cm culling at the center, but you can increase it with the near clip setting) regardless of size. The reflection is projected inside the probe's area only. This is why you can use a reflection probe outdoors even if it's not infinitely large to capture the sky: the sky is always within draw distance. Likewise, if there are walls and ceilings in the way it won't capture the sky, but if you make a poorly placed probe with its centerpoint inside the geometry (by default the geometry is one sided, if you put your camera inside a default cube you can see outside) then it'll ignore said piece of wall/ceiling. Similarly plopping down a tiny probe in the middle of a cave that doesn't actually cover the area means it sees the cave interior, but projects only inside its own area and leaves the rest to auto probes. There is really not much magic about it, just cameras at the midpoints. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 11 minutes ago, Frionil Fang said: Likewise, if there are walls and ceilings in the way it won't capture the sky, but if you make a poorly placed probe with its centerpoint inside the geometry (by default the geometry is one sided, if you put your camera inside a default cube you can see outside) then it'll ignore said piece of wall/ceiling. Similarly plopping down a tiny probe in the middle of a cave that doesn't actually cover the area means it sees the cave interior, but projects only inside its own area and leaves the rest to auto probes. Hmmm...I'll redo my test at some point, ensuring the "entire area" is within the probe. Of course, everything will work differently now as I definitely did my previous tests in "early days". I recall that my avatar was within the probe, but I'm not sure if the "reflective" surface (pool) was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 38 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: I worked in an upscale fabric shop during my college days. The drapes look very much like the type of bridal satin I sold. That's actually less shiny and more muted than what's at the event. If the curtains looked like that, I wouldn't have mentioned them at all. Whether the PVC/plastic effect I'm seeing is due to reflection probes or lighting or EEP or cute little gremlins in my viewer, I don't know. I just know they look wayyyy too glossy. If SL turns into a shine fest, which seems to be the current trend, I really can't see myself wanting to return to it (I'm on a bit of a break these days). The Firestorm PBR viewer runs totally fine for me and I'm not having technical problems, but from an aesthetics point of view, I'm just not feeling the environments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 hour ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Again, the "selling point" of PBR was that it was going to make everyone's SL look much much better and "more realistic." Really? I forgot that, and thought the point was to move towards a standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 46 minutes ago, Cube Republic said: This was ticks, I removed one between my toes and got quite blisterd. We're keeping an eye on it, we do have a version of lymes in Brazil, but it's not as bad as the NA variety. It's like the power of 50 mosquito bites all at once though! Ya we get those around here.. I can't stand ticks or chiggers.. Ticks are sneaky for sure. People wonder why people in the south in the U.S just let chickens run loose in their yard.. That's why.. They wear down the populations of those critters.. hehehe I had one tick on me that we could hardly pull off it had such a clamp on my lower back.. I put some menthol or peppermint oil, i forget which oil, on it and the whole area and it finally let go once that stuff got into the skin.. It wasn't letting loose otherwise.. hehehe Hate ticks! \o/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said: Ya we get those around here.. I can't stand ticks or chiggers.. Ticks are sneaky for sure. People wonder why people in the south in the U.S just let chickens run loose in their yard.. That's why.. They wear down the populations of those critters.. hehehe I had one tick on me that we could hardly pull off it had such a clamp on my lower back.. I put some menthol or peppermint oil, i forget which oil, on it and the whole area and it finally let go once that stuff got into the skin.. It wasn't letting loose otherwise.. hehehe Hate ticks! \o/ I don't want to jinx it, but with their double coat my huskies seem immune to ticks. For which I am grateful! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Really? I forgot that, and thought the point was to move towards a standard. I think there's a difference between the actual point of PBR -- which is, I believe, to enable future developments (such as glTF scenes) that are current standards -- and the rationale for it that was given publicly. Some people do think (or find) that PBR "looks better," but as we know a great many don't. But in the final analysis, I think "looking better" (and mirrors) were more about marketing this than about the actual motivation behind the move, which is the long-term sustainability of SL's code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Republic Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 23 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said: Ya we get those around here.. I can't stand ticks or chiggers.. Ticks are sneaky for sure. People wonder why people in the south in the U.S just let chickens run loose in their yard.. That's why.. They wear down the populations of those critters.. hehehe I had one tick on me that we could hardly pull off it had such a clamp on my lower back.. I put some menthol or peppermint oil, i forget which oil, on it and the whole area and it finally let go once that stuff got into the skin.. It wasn't letting loose otherwise.. hehehe Hate ticks! \o/ Hehe, I know who to blame, its the cats. I've never had a tick here until this year and we had two stray cats move themselves in. They've anhihalated the local bird population or chased them away, there's no lizards either, so we get bigger bugs too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Cube Republic said: Hehe, I know who to blame, its the cats. I've never had a tick here until this year and we had two stray cats move themselves in. They've anhihalated the local bird population or chased them away, there's no lizards either, so we get bigger bugs too. Omg when we cut the grass our whole yard just gets full of Robins.. Otherwise you only see a few around.. Birds and lizards are a huge help with the tiny critters for sure.. A lot of rumors about ticks dropping from trees is how they get on people, which is kind of funny.. Just thinking of that tiny critter climbing up that tree for as long as it takes them, just to make that drop on something.. hehehe They are waiting in lower grass and weeds and things waiting to rub off on animals.. The things people come up with sometimes.. hehehe Edited August 3 by Ceka Cianci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nala Blep Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 The true potential of PBR will not be realized until we ditch OpenGL, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now