Land Sales Crash

[BilliJo Aldrin]

38 minutes ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Lindens use a script or bot to decide which AL they're going to auction off. It's looking for regions with avatars present almost 24/7 already ("high demand" areas). Idea is to have as few mainland regions actually "awake" as possible.

It's possible you weren't understanding that because you didn't WANT to.

I suppose I could be wrong, but i thought all sims were always awake. If im on mainland and set my draw to 1024, i dont need to wait for those sims now inside my draw distance to “wake up”.

[Diablo Lioncourt]

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I suppose I could be wrong, but i thought all sims were always awake. If im on mainland and set my draw to 1024, i dont need to wait for those sims now inside my draw distance to “wake up”.

Well, where you and I live all sims are always awake because there's always people. Much of SL is the exact opposite.

 

[Diablo Lioncourt]

6 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It makes absolutely no sense to rent land from somebody else to then run as a rentals business. There is no way that this is cheaper in the long run.

Factual basis for this?

To start a simple 4096 skybox/platform/multiscene deal (I'm intentionally choosing a sample endeavor with a reasonable chance of success in today's environment), lets compare LL vs (biggest estate):

                                       LL.      (biggest estate)

Parcel Size.                4096    4080 (16 m2 microparcel for rent meter)

Prims                           1406   1867

Cost (MONTH)          $22      $15.96***

Startup Cost (Land) $38.66*  $16.03**

Subletting Allowed     Yes     Yes

Zoning Restrictions.   No      No (if you choose an "unzoned" sim)

Reliable Performance ???     Yes. Virtually guaranteed.

*Startup costs only include those related to land. Mainland example startup cost based on 4096 m2 of Abandoned Land at 1L per m2 +1st month's tier

**ACS example startup cost based on "Buying" parcel for 40L + 1st month's tier.

*** Estates charge by the week, so weekly tier for an unzoned 4096 (30k region) was multiplied by 52 then divided by 12 to get the most accurate calculation. You can rent a 4096 for 900ish L now!

The easiest way to figure out if you're making money getting started is when you're literally taking lindens out of your own pocket and putting them on a meter, and then watching lindens from your own meters refill your pocket and grow every week. This also saves conversion fees (cashing out pre-tier to pay LL in USD is more costly).

It's a good idea to start buying mainland with the intention of renting or selling it AFTER you start to understand the "Statistics Bar" in Firestorm. Learn from my mistake on this one:)

Edited January 13 by Diablo Lioncourt

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Well, where you and I live all sims are always awake because there's always people. Much of SL is the exact opposite.

 

oic, ty 😁

[Prokofy Neva]

2 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Factual basis for this?

To start a simple 4096 skybox/platform/multiscene deal (I'm intentionally choosing a sample endeavor with a reasonable chance of success in today's environment), lets compare LL vs (biggest estate):

                                       LL.      (biggest estate)

Parcel Size.                4096    4080 (16 m2 microparcel for rent meter)

Prims                           1406   1867

Cost (MONTH)          $22      $15.96***

Startup Cost (Land) $38.66*  $16.03**

Subletting Allowed     Yes     Yes

Zoning Restrictions.   No      No (if you choose an "unzoned" sim)

Reliable Performance ???     Yes. Virtually guaranteed.

*Startup costs only include those related to land. Mainland example startup cost based on 4096 m2 of Abandoned Land at 1L per m2 +1st month's tier

**ACS example startup cost based on "Buying" parcel for 40L + 1st month's tier.

*** Estates charge by the week, so weekly tier for an unzoned 4096 (30k region) was multiplied by 52 then divided by 12 to get the most accurate calculation. You can rent a 4096 for 900ish L now!

The easiest way to figure out if you're making money getting started is when you're literally taking lindens out of your own pocket and putting them on a meter, and then watching lindens from your own meters refill your pocket and grow every week. This also saves conversion fees (cashing out pre-tier to pay LL in USD is more costly).

It's a good idea to start buying mainland with the intention of renting or selling it AFTER you start to understand the "Statistics Bar" in Firestorm. Learn from my mistake on this one:)

The factual basis is that a 4096 ON THE MAINLAND costs me only US $12.28 -- and others even less if they have less state tax than I do in New York State. I use the figure of 0.0030 to include tax on tier payments. I also have a grandfathered island, so that tier is $194 (with tax) which means a 4096 costs me $12.12, slightly less than mainland.

Why would I pay an island dealer $15.96 per 4096 and attempt to re-rent that parcel for the same or more??? To break even, I'd have to charge about $1025 per week in rent, so that means I'd have to charge more. I'm not in the island business, with only one island where I charge $1300/1300 prims to stay competitive against those who apparently have large bulk island discounts.

The idea that "you can rent a 4096 for 900ish" overlooks the fact that this won't be a *good* 4096 -- if in fact you do find this theoretical parcel. It will be a flat, sandy pancake on a neglected server with ugly builds all around it as no one is policing the view and enforcing rules. 

In this market with high competition among islands because so many of them and vacancy is high. Look at the number of premium accounts out of the concurrency (if this is to be believed). There are only so many people willing to spend, say, US $25 per month on SL (the purchase of premiums is an indicator of this  -- it's only 20% of the concurrency!). Long ago, the Lindens provided precise statistics on spending inworld which showed that the number willing to spend even a dollar, let along $25 or $100, was a significantly small proportion of the concurrency and registrations.

Sure, there are people without premium or premium plus accounts who have money to burn on SL. But by and large they don't, especially the non-US contingent.

Islands enable the owners to create "estate managers" and leave SL on automatic and sublet their islands to those who in turn may sublet further (if allowed under the lease). That means you can troubleshoot by re-setting the sim, mainly, and file tickets.  Even so, it's not the same level of confidence and service you could have by outright ownership when something goes wrong.

Even if I were in the new island business, I don't see that it makes sense to pay ACS or another large dealer for an island and then attempt to re-rent it, competing with that dealer.

And I don't see that payment of tiers in Lindens is an advantage. 

 

Edited January 13 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Lindens use a script or bot to decide which AL they're going to auction off. It's looking for regions with avatars present almost 24/7 already ("high demand" areas). Idea is to have as few mainland regions actually "awake" as possible.

It's possible you weren't understanding that because you didn't WANT to.

This is not the only factor for Linden decisions of what goes on the auction. There is a human determination regarding what abandoned land goes to auction -- if you've ever requested prime waterfront, you know that the Lindens can go either way on granting your request because they weigh whether they could make more on the auction. The biggest factor for them is likely the rating, G, M or A. 

As Lee Linden inimitably and bluntly put it, sims perform at their best when their are no avatars on them.

But LL does not run a system like Kitely where regions are "asleep" and only spin up if an avatar comes on them. They have to be "always on" in this configuration. So the "awake" concept isn't accurate. 

Also mitigating this factor -- if it is true -- would be the tendency of people to look for land on a region that is NOT full of avatars making it laggy, i.e. a sim with a club on it. 

I'll find an opportunity to ask a Linden directly if this is how they do it because they have never stated it, and it makes no sense. Maybe you have your inside Linden dope but again, there are human factors to these decisions. Yes, the Lindens have their own land bots for this purpose and others (like Destinations).But they must have a staff person go inworld and physically prep the land, often by terraforming it and taking an advantageous photo - sometimes to block the view of the ugliness on 16m ad farms which their policies or lack of enforcement helped spawn.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Business question: why do you think SL chooses to lease servers from Amazon Web Services?

Why do you think Apple, Netflix, and even Google do this?

One possibility is that you know something they don't. Then there's the other possibility...

For Lindens, and even more, Netflix or Apple, it makes sense on a large scale to rent and then re-rent AWS.

That's because Amazon engineers then take on the headache of dealing with server performance, and in the case of SL, this means deliberate griefing and sim-crashing and overuse with intensive scripts and avatar traffic. So naturally they want Amazon's robust capabilities to take care of DDoSing etc so they don't have to.

But it certainly doesn't make sense given the costs on the scale of land business that the average rental company -- even large dealers -- is doing within SL. Because of the cost of tier and *tax or VAT* plus your own labour costs and content purchase costs, if you estimate them, and most people don't.

I've been in RL jobs where -- imagine! -- I had to handle the Amazon servers. Have you?

I find if you start with the premise -- as you do -- of assuming that everyone but you is stupid, you don't learn anything.

Nothing in SL or LL itself is remotely like the scale of an Apple or Google obviously, much less their prosumer business.

[Qie Niangao]

On the idle regions tangent: Unless things have changed since this was first introduced, it's relatively difficult for a region to actually stay idle in these days of widespread bot use. The simulation wakes from idle the instant an agent arrives and it takes a while after departure to go idle again. Also, scripted http traffic supposedly prevents the region from idling and that's a lot more common now than when idling was first introduced—although that might justify changing it to ignore http scripts and go idle anyway. (If it still works as announced, my scripts and others must frequently awaken any Sansara or Heterocera region with Linden railway.)

Edited January 13 by Qie Niangao

[Diablo Lioncourt]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

The factual basis is that a 4096 ON THE MAINLAND costs me only US $12.28 -- and others even less if they have less state tax than I do in New York State. I use the figure of 0.0030 to include tax on tier payments. I also have a grandfathered island, so that tier is $194 (with tax) which means a 4096 costs me $12.12, slightly less than mainland.

Why would I pay an island dealer $15.96 per 4096 and attempt to re-rent that parcel for the same or more??? To break even, I'd have to charge about $1025 per week in rent, so that means I'd have to charge more. I'm not in the island business, with only one island where I charge $1300/1300 prims to stay competitive against those who apparently have large bulk island discounts.

The idea that "you can rent a 4096 for 900ish" overlooks the fact that this won't be a *good* 4096 -- if in fact you do find this theoretical parcel.

 

So we were actually talking about mainland ownership vs renting GETTING STARTED, as opposed to after you scale up. No one ever said it's always going to be cheaper to rent after you do the whole scaling up thing.

Thank you for providing a bunch of completely irrelevant information about an entirely seperate topic.

"Good 4096" is subjective AF. What's not subjective is prim count, stability, and performance. Per the Lindens themselves private islands will do better on those metrics.

The assertion that it's not feasible to get a parcel of that size for that price of usable quality is bigotry. It's contempt prior to investigation. It may have been true in 2004 when your now hardwired views were formed, but things have changed considerably.

Edited January 13 by Diablo Lioncourt

[blazewing76]

On 11/26/2023 at 3:42 PM, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Anyone else notice that the apparent slowdown in land sales is becoming a freeze?

Just curious how others perceive what's been happening.

here's my 2 cents.   Land sales are freezing because the prices are too high to get any kind of pay membership to qualify to buy land.   Add the expensive pay membership and high tier costs and you see land sales  slowing down or freezing.  personally, in just 3 years I've watched the abandoned land increase exponentially, if you try to drive on mainland roads you will pass thousands of miles of abandoned land where there used to be stuff.   SL is dying and unless something  can be done this is one of the last years this world will exist. Maybe lower prices for membership or  do something to interest people, like ban ban lines?   i don't know but SL is dying slowly, it gets a few quick spikes when events that offer free stuff happen.   Seems the SL people can't BUY what they want for their Avatar.

[Persephone Emerald]

6 minutes ago, blazewing76 said:

here's my 2 cents.   Land sales are freezing because the prices are too high to get any kind of pay membership to qualify to buy land.   Add the expensive pay membership and high tier costs and you see land sales  slowing down or freezing.  personally, in just 3 years I've watched the abandoned land increase exponentially, if you try to drive on mainland roads you will pass thousands of miles of abandoned land where there used to be stuff.   SL is dying and unless something  can be done this is one of the last years this world will exist. Maybe lower prices for membership or  do something to interest people, like ban ban lines?   i don't know but SL is dying slowly, it gets a few quick spikes when events that offer free stuff happen.   Seems the SL people can't BUY what they want for their Avatar.

SL is not dying. It's just changing. Many users have tired of the joys of mainland and opted for shopping over building and creating. We switched from the creative craziness to a quiet, predictable and respectable Bellesseria. We want Linden Lab, the Moles and creators to spoon-feed us a pretty, little virtual world, where we can escape from our harsh and crazy RL one. 

We probably have less patience with griefers with pen!s shooting guns when RL is full of real shooters and real warfare. We don't want to be reminded of RL politics and social problems. We want our peaceful little gardens, doll houses and virtual Barbies. We want to sail on seas that are calm and free of garbage. We want to ride the rails where there are no unslightly industrial parks or abandoned buildings. We want to live free of winter storms and homeless encampments on our sidewalks.

[Prokofy Neva]

3 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

So we were actually talking about mainland ownership vs renting GETTING STARTED, as opposed to after you scale up. No one ever said it's always going to be cheaper to rent after you do the whole scaling up thing.

Thank you for providing a bunch of completely irrelevant information about an entirely seperate topic.

"Good 4096" is subjective AF. What's not subjective is prim count, stability, and performance. Per the Lindens themselves private islands will do better on those metrics.

The assertion that it's not feasible to get a parcel of that size for that price of usable quality is bigotry. It's contempt prior to investigation. It may have been true in 2004 when your now hardwired views were formed, but things have changed considerably.

It makes no sense to rent Anshe land and re-rent it when you could get your own island and completely control it and not worry about that business suddenly leaving SL -- unlikely, but it does happen.

If ACS charges so little that you in fact save the cost of your own start-up, they should review their pricing because they are merely foolishly enabling competitors on their own sims.

Good 4096 is not subjective -- there are very basic metrics of FPS, view, waterfront or flat status, disposition of neighbours, etc. 

Nothing I've said is irrelevant as Mainland is not out of the scope, the issue is start-up costs and Mainland is simply cheaper across the board, despite the ultimate risks.

I don't have hard-wired views. For example, if an annoying neighbour apparently trying to "make a point" returns every single prim of mine or my tenant's "just because he can," in the past I might return them back, put up ban lines, file ARs for harassment etc.

Now I just abandon the land near that return-happy idiot. They can tier that land or worry that it gets cut up to ad farms rather than bother me.

That's only one of a 100 ways I have changed my views since 2004.

[Prokofy Neva]

14 hours ago, blazewing76 said:

here's my 2 cents.   Land sales are freezing because the prices are too high to get any kind of pay membership to qualify to buy land.   Add the expensive pay membership and high tier costs and you see land sales  slowing down or freezing.  personally, in just 3 years I've watched the abandoned land increase exponentially, if you try to drive on mainland roads you will pass thousands of miles of abandoned land where there used to be stuff.   SL is dying and unless something  can be done this is one of the last years this world will exist. Maybe lower prices for membership or  do something to interest people, like ban ban lines?   i don't know but SL is dying slowly, it gets a few quick spikes when events that offer free stuff happen.   Seems the SL people can't BUY what they want for their Avatar.

In the time this thread has run, I have sold 5 land parcels. I don't sell much land as I'm in the rentals not the sales business, but if land isn't renting, I sell it or sometimes abandon it rather than have it sit there or sell it for such a low price that it will be eaten by ad farmers.

So I didn't have to pay much tier on them -- about 2 to 2.5 months. I had to lower the cost somewhat on some -- $5/me for waterfront seems awfully low -- but others sold for much more and I had a 4096 sell for $55000 that was double waterfront/roadside and a 1536 sell for $55,000 that was non-Blake but prime saleable land. 

No crashes for me, although I do think that overall, the market is down and the cashout is less. Accordingly, I continually downsize.

I think yes, people spend more on their avatars than they do on rentals and flit around to clubs and various sims where you can even have sex out in the open or in cheap hotels or cabins. Or they rent for short periods.

I think the Lindens charge the price that the need to charge to cover costs, as we all do in business. And as it is, they have a lot of free accounts -- the majority -- that are a load on the servers and not always a return to the economy or culture.

 

Edited January 14 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

15 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

So we were actually talking about mainland ownership vs renting GETTING STARTED, as opposed to after you scale up. No one ever said it's always going to be cheaper to rent after you do the whole scaling up thing.

Thank you for providing a bunch of completely irrelevant information about an entirely seperate topic.

"Good 4096" is subjective AF. What's not subjective is prim count, stability, and performance. Per the Lindens themselves private islands will do better on those metrics.

The assertion that it's not feasible to get a parcel of that size for that price of usable quality is bigotry. It's contempt prior to investigation. It may have been true in 2004 when your now hardwired views were formed, but things have changed considerably.

BTW, I think your purpose now, given what appears to be a "crashed" land market for you, is to bully and harass the competition on the forums, in tandem with tactics like aggressive returns and land-cutting and view-blighting inworld, safe in the knowledge that a) I won't AR you (I think it's tacky to AR people on the forums) and b) the mods will let you have your way, for reasons unknown.

So I'm pretty much done with this conversation and if anyone wants to follow up inworld with discussion of the land business you can always IM me.

 

[Qie Niangao]

16 hours ago, blazewing76 said:

here's my 2 cents.   Land sales are freezing because the prices are too high to get any kind of pay membership to qualify to buy land.   Add the expensive pay membership and high tier costs and you see land sales  slowing down or freezing.  personally, in just 3 years I've watched the abandoned land increase exponentially, if you try to drive on mainland roads you will pass thousands of miles of abandoned land where there used to be stuff.   SL is dying and unless something  can be done this is one of the last years this world will exist. Maybe lower prices for membership or  do something to interest people, like ban ban lines?   i don't know but SL is dying slowly, it gets a few quick spikes when events that offer free stuff happen.   Seems the SL people can't BUY what they want for their Avatar.

See, this is what happens when you view SL as SL land, and view SL land as being Mainland sales.

Look at the continued spread of Bellisseria. SL and SL land are doing just fine. Mainland, on the other hand, is hollowing out. And how on earth could it not? Again, just look at how much new land is being minted in Belli. It's like two Mainland continents in the last year alone. SL hasn't had that rate of new user retention since 2006. Eventually, something has to give. What gives first? The stuff competing with Belli for demand specifically from premium subscribers: Mainland.

Yes, yes, of course they're different. On the margins. That's why I and many, many subscribers own both. But in aggregate, subscribers—myself included—have satisfied some demand for land using Belli, demand that used to drive the Mainland market.

Really, unless SL were growing at an unprecedented rate, Belli simply could not grow like this without cannibalizing Mainland.

We could discuss why Mainland is so very ripe for the picking, but the reasons are pretty obvious. Such discussions always bring out the rabid crypto-Objectivists whose stone tablets include an eleventh Commandment of banlines and security orbs. Cater to a few loonies long enough, give the rest of us an option, and pretty soon you've got continents peopled by a few loonies and blessed few others.

Edited January 14 by Qie Niangao

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

See, this is what happens when you view SL as SL land, and view SL land as being Mainland sales.

Look at the continued spread of Bellisseria. SL and SL land are doing just fine. Mainland, on the other hand, is hollowing out. And how on earth could it not? Again, just look at how much new land is being minted in Belli. It's like two Mainland continents in the last year alone. SL hasn't had that rate of new user retention since 2006. Eventually, something has to give. What gives first? The stuff competing with Belli for demand specifically from premium subscribers: Mainland.

Yes, yes, of course they're different. On the margins. That's why I and many, many subscribers own both. But in aggregate, subscribers—myself included—have satisfied some demand for land using Belli, demand that used to drive the Mainland market.

Really, unless SL were growing at an unprecedented rate, Belli simply could not grow like this without cannibalizing Mainland.

We could discuss why Mainland is so very ripe for the picking, but the reasons are pretty obvious. Such discussions always bring out the rabid crypto-Objectivists whose stone tablets include an eleventh Commandment of banlines and security orbs. Cater to a few loonies long enough, give the rest of us an option, and pretty soon you've got continents peopled by a few loonies and blessed few others.

Since we supposedly have many many empty mainland sims, that would be the perfect place to start Mainland 2.0

Not everyone wants to live in Belli, but neither do they want the anarchy of mainland.

As I said in the mainland 2.0 thread I started a while ago, let LL carve a few new roads through the empty sims and carve out 4096 roadfronts ( eight per sim). You cant buy or sell the parcels, you cant subdivide them, you cant have a skybox below 1000m. and no privacy screens over 10 m high.

You get a parcel the same way you get a Belli house, from a list, and no this is NOT a new 4096 free tier level, you claim it and immediatly owe a months tier on it, whatever you have over the 1024 or 2048 level.

This requires ZERO new sims to be brought online since they are already there.

I know people will complain that its not possible, it cant be done. Well we won’t know until LL. tries it will we?

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

17 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

 

I don't have hard-wired views. For example, if an annoying neighbour apparently trying to "make a point" returns every single prim of mine or my tenant's "just because he can," in the past I might return them back, put up ban lines, file ARs for harassment etc.

Now I just abandon the land near that return-happy idiot. They can tier that land or worry that it gets cut up to ad farms rather than bother me.

So if i return a prim encroaching on my property i’m a return happy idiot, and you would set the prim out again? Guess what, it will be returned again, as many times as you set it out. 

“dear LL my neighbor keeps returning prims that I have rezzed over the property line, please make him stop because it is harassment”

As you have said before, you dont just have rights to your land, you claim the right to control all the land around you as well.

I might have to ask Diablo if he had any land beside yours he might like to sell, preferably with an ocean view, so i can put up a tower. 

😂

Edited January 14 by BilliJo Aldrin
added stuff

[BilliJo Aldrin]

19 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

SL is not dying. It's just changing. Many users have tired of the joys of mainland and opted for shopping over building and creating. We switched from the creative craziness to a quiet, predictable and respectable Bellesseria. We want Linden Lab, the Moles and creators to spoon-feed us a pretty, little virtual world, where we can escape from our harsh and crazy RL one. 

We probably have less patience with griefers with pen!s shooting guns when RL is full of real shooters and real warfare. We don't want to be reminded of RL politics and social problems. We want our peaceful little gardens, doll houses and virtual Barbies. We want to sail on seas that are calm and free of garbage. We want to ride the rails where there are no unslightly industrial parks or abandoned buildings. We want to live free of winter storms and homeless encampments on our sidewalks.

short version “we got old”

[Diablo Lioncourt]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

“dear LL my neighbor keeps returning prims that I have rezzed over the property line, please make him stop because it is harassment”

This nails it. QFT.

After he attacks people on the forums and they respond he's "being bullied" and the thread he chose to reply to was created to harass him.

He also implied I created an entire SL Wiki page of bogus information about a fake city to market real estate, and enlisted other land owners in the area in some giant conspiracy...

He also said, earlier in this thread, that he's filed multiple ARs over purchase, development, and resale of abandoned land.

Is there a way to just not see anything someone posts here?

 

Edited January 14 by Diablo Lioncourt

[Persephone Emerald]

37 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Since we supposedly have many many empty mainland sims, that would be the perfect place to start Mainland 2.0

Not everyone wants to live in Belli, but neither do they want the anarchy of mainland.

As I said in the mainland 2.0 thread I started a while ago, let LL carve a few new roads through the empty sims and carve out 4096 roadfronts ( eight per sim). You cant buy or sell the parcels, you cant subdivide them, you cant have a skybox below 1000m. and no privacy screens over 10 m high.

You get a parcel the same way you get a Belli house, from a list, and no this is NOT a new 4096 free tier level, you claim it and immediatly owe a months tier on it, whatever you have over the 1024 or 2048 level.

This requires ZERO new sims to be brought online since they are already there.

I know people will complain that its not possible, it cant be done. Well we won’t know until LL. tries it will we?

 

LL isn't going to change the rules for existing Mainland because doing so wouldn't be worth the confusion and customer disgruntlement this would cause. 

Given the popularity of Bellisseria, however, they might want to try similar development of Adult residential regions or some kind of Mainland 2.0, both of which could limit skyboxes to 1000 m or above.

I hope they'll finish the coastline of Zindra and Corsica IV as well.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

the rabid crypto-Objectivists whose stone tablets include an eleventh Commandment of banlines and security orbs

Bellicosians just can't help it, they have to scream their anti-privacy rants about how awful it is that the other users they try to treat like NPC's in a single player fantasy RPG, refuse to accept their NPC status, and allow "adventurers" to rummage though all their footlockers looking for health potions and gold coins.

 

This ain't that kind of "game" bro.

[Persephone Emerald]

18 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

[snip]

I don't have hard-wired views. For example, if an annoying neighbour apparently trying to "make a point" returns every single prim of mine or my tenant's "just because he can," in the past I might return them back, put up ban lines, file ARs for harassment etc.

Now I just abandon the land near that return-happy idiot. They can tier that land or worry that it gets cut up to ad farms rather than bother me.

That's only one of a 100 ways I have changed my views since 2004.

Just to clarify, the only way people can return your prims, your tenant's prims or your group member's prims is if they are at least partially on their property.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Persephone Emerald said:

LL isn't going to change the rules for existing Mainland because doing so wouldn't be worth the confusion and customer disgruntlement this would cause. 

Given the popularity of Bellisseria, however, they might want to try similar development of Adult residential regions or some kind of Mainland 2.0, both of which could limit skyboxes to 1000 m or above.

I hope they'll finish the coastline of Zindra and Corsica IV as well.

There will be no disgruntlement, or confusion because LL will only convert EMPTY sims to Mainland 2.0 .

Its all about choice, you can choose to search high and low for a parcel that is reasonably priced, and not blighted, or you can go to the LL homepage and choose a 4096 from LL, knowing you wont be plagued by the issues of regular mainland.

It will fill a niche that is untapped and unfulfilled

And sorry but adult Belli will still be Belli, a suburban wasteland, or more accurately, considering a previous post, a retirement village for those worn out from the trials and tribulations of living on mainland.

Just had another thought, land flippers will love it too, because as mainland sims convert to mainland 2.0, original mainland will increase in value as it becomes more scarce. There will always be people wanting the total freedom of mainland, so it will never be entirely converted to mainland 2.0, and land flippers will always exist and flourish

Edited January 14 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a paragraph

[encidious Opus]

3 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

OK Boomer.

Now its serious, the gloves are now off

56 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Just had another thought, land flippers will love it too, because as mainland sims convert to mainland 2.0, original mainland will increase in value as it becomes more scarce. There will always be people wanting the total freedom of mainland, so it will never be entirely converted to mainland 2.0, and land flippers will always exist and flourish

I like the idea, and sounds like a fun job at Linden Labs. I will be watching for any empty regions being claimed by Guy Linden. And immediately buy any abandoned or desolate land adjoining the future Belli-Lite community

[Gabriele Graves]

8 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

We could discuss why Mainland is so very ripe for the picking, but the reasons are pretty obvious. Such discussions always bring out the rabid crypto-Objectivists whose stone tablets include an eleventh Commandment of banlines and security orbs. Cater to a few loonies long enough, give the rest of us an option, and pretty soon you've got continents peopled by a few loonies and blessed few others.

Wow, just wow.  Talk about a narrow viewpoint.