Nvidia to make Arm-based PC chips in major new challenge to Intel - Desktop ARM and SL, lets discuss!

[AmeliaJ08]

News from yesterday: https://www.reuters.com/technology/nvidia-make-arm-based-pc-chips-major-new-challenge-intel-2023-10-23/

This could be very interesting, obviously efforts so far to move Windows users onto ARM have failed but... clearly there's a long term goal by some of the biggest firms. I know I know, the 90s said we would all abandon our x86 PC's and be using some RISC flavor by now and they were wrong and the PC is very obviously not the mac in terms of easily moving users to an entirely new architecture especially given the dominance of Windows but... could this be it?

Anyway, aside from the broader implications of it all it looks like whatever LL are cooking up as far as a mobile viewer might well become a very important piece of software. There's definitely a need for a native mobile ARM viewer already and arguably something tailored for Apple's M1/M2 chips. If NVidia also enter this market I think it would be safe to assume they might also include a GPU in their designs so we could very well have a Windows ARM CPU  product with similarly specialized GPU hardware integrated as Apple do currently.

 

 

 

[Kathrine Jansma]

Up to now, the ARM offerings beside Apples severly lacked in the GPU and memory department. And Apple basically abandoned OpenGL support, so viewers do not run to full potential offered by the hardware.

So not really good targets to run SL viewers on.

BUT if you have a nice powerful ARM desktop running e.g. Linux ARM you can compile a viewer for it and run it. Henri Beauchamp has/had an ARM build of the CoolVL Viewer at some time ( http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2212&start=40 ).

You could probably get the current viewer to compile on Windows ARM too, maybe with minor changes, but it lacks prebuilt ARM versions of the dependent libraries, so it would be some effort to get it to compile.

 

[AmeliaJ08]

28 minutes ago, Kathrine Jansma said:

Up to now, the ARM offerings beside Apples severly lacked in the GPU and memory department. And Apple basically abandoned OpenGL support, so viewers do not run to full potential offered by the hardware.

So not really good targets to run SL viewers on.

BUT if you have a nice powerful ARM desktop running e.g. Linux ARM you can compile a viewer for it and run it. Henri Beauchamp has/had an ARM build of the CoolVL Viewer at some time ( http://sldev.free.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2212&start=40 ).

You could probably get the current viewer to compile on Windows ARM too, maybe with minor changes, but it lacks prebuilt ARM versions of the dependent libraries, so it would be some effort to get it to compile.

 

I would argue that a viewer that can actually utilize Apple's GPU is pretty important though, then again we don't even get a PC viewer that can properly utilize modern GPU hardware...

Maybe an Nvidia ARM CPU for Windows desktops with a similarly powerful integrated GPU might actually encourage LL to move on a little, I would assume an Nvidia ARM CPU/GPU would probably prioritize Vulkan and Direct3D for example.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Flea Yatsenko]

How is this different from Tegra? Tegra was announced in 2008 and the only time it's been in a successful commercial product is the Nintendo Switch. And only because Nintendo was able to bully Nvidia into giving them a good deal since Nintendo knew no one liked Tegras (too hot and inefficient for mobile but too slow to compete with proper desktop chips).

I feel like this is an article from 2010. But I checked the date and it's not. So they're just going to try and make a Tegra that competes with Apple? Who even wants that?

[Kathrine Jansma]

4 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I would argue that a viewer that can actually utilize Apple's GPU is pretty important though, then again we don't even get a PC viewer that can properly utilize modern GPU hardware...

It is important, but not for the reasons you seem to assume here.

Apple is going to kill OpenGL in one of the next OS X releases, at least it deprecated OpenGL support since 10.14 (but added newer stuff for M1 surprisingly, see https://unlimited3d.wordpress.com/2020/12/09/opengl-on-apple-m1/ ).  So once Apple goes forward and removes OpenGL APIs from the system, there will be no way to get the current viewer to run on OS X.

So it is not "would be nice to use the power" but "move to new tech or your out", when it comes to the OS X/Apple ecosystem.

[AmeliaJ08]

1 hour ago, Kathrine Jansma said:

It is important, but not for the reasons you seem to assume here.

Apple is going to kill OpenGL in one of the next OS X releases, at least it deprecated OpenGL support since 10.14 (but added newer stuff for M1 surprisingly, see https://unlimited3d.wordpress.com/2020/12/09/opengl-on-apple-m1/ ).  So once Apple goes forward and removes OpenGL APIs from the system, there will be no way to get the current viewer to run on OS X.

So it is not "would be nice to use the power" but "move to new tech or your out", when it comes to the OS X/Apple ecosystem.

Sure but that's why I'm calling for a viewer for Apple silicon...

 

[AmeliaJ08]

6 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

How is this different from Tegra? Tegra was announced in 2008 and the only time it's been in a successful commercial product is the Nintendo Switch. And only because Nintendo was able to bully Nvidia into giving them a good deal since Nintendo knew no one liked Tegras (too hot and inefficient for mobile but too slow to compete with proper desktop chips).

I feel like this is an article from 2010. But I checked the date and it's not. So they're just going to try and make a Tegra that competes with Apple? Who even wants that?

Not sure it is different to be honest. I would assume whatever they're planning will be built off Tegra.

Of course it does seem to fall down on Microsoft to actually get users interested though. I guess Nvidia think with AMD and Intel supposedly jumping into the ring this might be a good time to give it another shot?

I think the answer to who wants that is most laptop users and presumably most desktop people who pay for their own electricity it does feel very like the 90s again though, the death of x86 was assured back then but of course it never happened since we PC people are pretty stubborn. This is that all over again but the rise of ARM everywhere else does make it seem slightly different and could mean the time has actually come, who knows.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Sure but that's why I'm calling for a viewer for Apple silicon...

 

Problem is...

There are not enough people using Awful Mac's with Metal Arms, to justify LL wasting time, effort, and MONEY, making a special snowflake viewer just for them.

Mac users are only about 5 % of SL in total, and Metal Arms are a fraction of that.

Same reason they don't waste time, effort, and money, pandering to the 1.4 % of SL that use Linux.

It's harsh, but that's economic reality.

[Flea Yatsenko]

13 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Problem is...

There are not enough people using Awful Mac's with Metal Arms, to justify LL wasting time, effort, and MONEY, making a special snowflake viewer just for them.

Mac users are only about 5 % of SL in total, and Metal Arms are a fraction of that.

Same reason they don't waste time, effort, and money, pandering to the 1.4 % of SL that use Linux.

It's harsh, but that's economic reality.

Pretty easy to make one with Unity Game Engine, which they are using for the mobile viewer. I don't think it'll ever be much of a content creation platform for SL, though. Highly doubt there's going to be much effort to get the proper viewer running on it, and it'll always be missing key content creator software.

 

16 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Not sure it is different to be honest. I would assume whatever they're planning will be built off Tegra.

Of course it does seem to fall down on Microsoft to actually get users interested though. I guess Nvidia think with AMD and Intel supposedly jumping into the ring this might be a good time to give it another shot?

I think the answer to who wants that is most laptop users and presumably most desktop people who pay for their own electricity it does feel very like the 90s again though, the death of x86 was assured back then but of course it never happened since we PC people are pretty stubborn. This is that all over again but the rise of ARM everywhere else does make it seem slightly different and could mean the time has actually come, who knows.

 

 

Yeah, this feels like deja vu. I don't know how it'll end up. Last time they tried this laptops had 1 hour battery life unless you bought a netbook. Now you can buy a nice x86 laptop that goes for 8+ hours and is pretty fast. And ARM didn't make it back then. In fact AMD made Jaguar architecture and it was pretty darn good compared to ARM.

[AmeliaJ08]

22 hours ago, Flea Yatsenko said:

Pretty easy to make one with Unity Game Engine, which they are using for the mobile viewer. I don't think it'll ever be much of a content creation platform for SL, though. Highly doubt there's going to be much effort to get the proper viewer running on it, and it'll always be missing key content creator software.

 

Yeah, this feels like deja vu. I don't know how it'll end up. Last time they tried this laptops had 1 hour battery life unless you bought a netbook. Now you can buy a nice x86 laptop that goes for 8+ hours and is pretty fast. And ARM didn't make it back then. In fact AMD made Jaguar architecture and it was pretty darn good compared to ARM.

I really think in the PC market this is going to succeed/fail based on backwards compatibility. People are probably not going to want to give up on x86 apps entirely at least during the transition period which will probably be quite a long time in the PC world.

Something I don't understand though, Microsoft in their Windows on ARM marketing always talk about "x86 emulation" and yet Apple always describe Rosetta as a translation layer. Are they functionally the same thing though?

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/about-the-rosetta-translation-environment

Edited October 27, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[JeromFranzic]

20 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Something I don't understand though, Microsoft in their Windows on ARM marketing always talk about "x86 emulation" and yet Apple always describe Rosetta as a translation layer. Are they functionally the same thing though?

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/about-the-rosetta-translation-environment

Yes, functionally the same.

The Wine API for Linux and OS X does the same thing. The Linux version doesn't emulate the x86 CPU, as it's designed to access a real one directly (along with the rest of the hardware available on a given PC, including the dedicated GPU). Wine is focused on system translation, with minimal emulation for most components. It can use DLLs directly from Microsoft, along with Wine's versions of those components.

[Katherine Heartsong]

Quote

Mac users are only about 5 % of SL in total ...

Love to see the quantitative proof, please. A link to officially posted Linden Lab platform stats that aren't a decade old will be acceptable, thank you.

[Qie Niangao]

The other side of this Windows on ARM story, to me, is the Snapdragon X Elite chip that Qualcomm announced at the Snapdragon Summit this week. 

Quote

“It’s the fastest CPU for a laptop, period. Period! It’s faster than anything Apple, anything AMD, anything Intel. But it’s also delivering performance that is faster than the fastest desktop gaming PC from AMD. It’s at the same level as some of the fastest CPUs you can buy from Intel for a gaming rig, one that is liquid-cooled. And we’re doing all of that in a laptop, in a battery-powered device.”

As I understand it, Microsoft's reported 2016 exclusivity agreement with Qualcomm expires next year, making possible the aforementioned Nvidia (and AMD) chip development for Windows on ARM for delivery in 2025, and making necessary this new-found Qualcomm competitiveness.

[Flea Yatsenko]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I really think in the PC market this is going to succeed/fail based on backwards compatibility. People are probably not going to want to give up on x86 apps entirely at least during the transition period which will probably be quite a long time in the PC world.

Something I don't understand though, Microsoft in their Windows on ARM marketing always talk about "x86 emulation" and yet Apple always describe Rosetta as a translation layer. Are they functionally the same thing though?

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/about-the-rosetta-translation-environment

I'm still not holding my breath, the benchmarks they used isn't even named. Typical marketing. if they had a valid benchmark like Cinebench, Blender, a game, productivity software, etc. they would be more explicit than just "single thread performance is more points". It's probably just geekbench. I guess we'll have to see, but I know people who switched to Apple M1/2 and they aren't happy because they have stuff that doesn't work, or doesn't work well.

https://www.techradar.com/computing/qualcomm-launches-snapdragon-x-elite-for-windows-pcs-and-promises-on-board-ai-and-days-of-battery-life

That said, yes, you have to use something like qemu to translate CPU instructions. WINE just translates API calls to something that Linux can understand. A program is just a list of instructions for a CPU to execute, x86 has their own instructions, and ARM has their own. To run x86 on ARM, or vice versa, you have to translate those instructions to something the other CPU can understand since the architectures aren't compatible.

But anytime you add a layer like that, you make an opportunity to cause problems that wouldn't exist if it was native. I use Linux for all my work stuff, SL viewer in Wine loves to randomly crash, especially after uploading, and SP in WINE loves to not start up until I relog, especially if I'm using Wayland. Problems I wouldn't have if I were just to use Windows. Even with that, I use Linux because the other benefits are worth it. But switching to ARM doesn't offer much. I'm skeptical, again. I remember when AMD was going to go all in on ARM before they released Ryzen. Good thing they didn't.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Love to see the quantitative proof, please. A link to officially posted Linden Lab platform stats that aren't a decade old will be acceptable, thank you.

Even if we never get "proof", it would kind of make sense if Mac numbers are low, since Macs cost more.

I know that I'm just repeating things I've read..

 

[AmeliaJ08]

2 hours ago, JeromFranzic said:

Yes, functionally the same.

The Wine API for Linux and OS X does the same thing. The Linux version doesn't emulate the x86 CPU, as it's designed to access a real one directly (along with the rest of the hardware available on a given PC, including the dedicated GPU). Wine is focused on system translation, with minimal emulation for most components. It can use DLLs directly from Microsoft, along with Wine's versions of those components.

It's interesting that Apple don't want to use the term emulation, I'm not sure why.

Not that it really matters too much in their ecosystem since basically everything people do on Apple computers is native ARM now but it will matter during a transition period on the PC, if it ever happens.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Love to see the quantitative proof, please. A link to officially posted Linden Lab platform stats that aren't a decade old will be acceptable, thank you.

The graph with the breakdown of OS used, reported by the Firestorm viewers, was posted in a thread some time back, (no not a decade ago, a year or two) to counter fraudulent claims by a mac cultist that "Mac users make up *cough*[total bs] % *cough of SL.

The mac cultist then disputed the figures because the appellation for mac whyOS on the pie chart didn't match the official current whyOS descriptor, and claimed that "obviously", there was a "vast silent unseen invisible and undetectable" group of mac users that were not correctly identified, despite the fact that the graph didn't have a big slice labelled "it's mac Jim, but not as we know it", apparently assuming that the new whyOS descriptor would somehow, magically be mis reported as "windows".

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

3 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

It's interesting that Apple don't want to use the term emulation, I'm not sure why.

 

6 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I really think in the PC market this is going to succeed/fail based on backwards compatibility. People are probably not going to want to give up on x86 apps

It's simple.

Imagine somebody with a Steam account, a decade old, who has spent thousands of $ on recreational software, out of their own pocket.

Then some marketing clown comes along and tells them they should spend 50% more than the cost of a brand new top of the line REAL PC with a grown up OS, on buying the "Wakibaki 9000 with Metal Arms", a machine that will NOT run ANY of their 200+ back catalog of well loved games, games mod loaders, games modding tools, etc.

 

All they are offered is the "amazing new SirLagALot REAL PC to Metal Arms emulator" which runs like molasses in wintertime, and doesn't support ANY of the graphical API's used in the software, and results in degraded graphics.

The moment the PC user sees the word "emulator" they will back away quickly. so, you LIE and call it a "translator" hoping they won't spot that its basically the same damn thing.

 

And then of course, you'll get cultists saying "But why would you want to play games that are MORE than 3 months old? If the Wakibaki takes off, eventually there will ne NEW games, delete all your old faves with over 1000 hours of gameplay each!"

 

It's simple, if recreational PC users who pay for their own software, rather than having it rented by their employer, can't run all their preferred existing apps, they will NOT pay through the nose for some overpriced Futureness Propriatory Lock-In- Fail-Tech.

They didn't buy NEXT, they didn't buy Amiga 500, they mostly haven't bought Metal Arms Mac, and probably won't buy this new thing, unless that "run your old software at least as well if not better" issue isn't solved.

Telling people "We know you love [game title] 4, but IF you all buy this new thing, maybe the publisher will release [game title] 6 on ARM in a year or three" just does not cut it.

 

 

[Ardy Lay]

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

It's simple.

Imagine somebody with a Steam account, a decade old, who has spent thousands of $ on recreational software, out of their own pocket.

Then some marketing clown comes along and tells them they should spend 50% more than the cost of a brand new top of the line REAL PC with a grown up OS, on buying the "Wakibaki 9000 with Metal Arms", a machine that will NOT run ANY of their 200+ back catalog of well loved games, games mod loaders, games modding tools, etc.

 

All they are offered is the "amazing new SirLagALot REAL PC to Metal Arms emulator" which runs like molasses in wintertime, and doesn't support ANY of the graphical API's used in the software, and results in degraded graphics.

The moment the PC user sees the word "emulator" they will back away quickly. so, you LIE and call it a "translator" hoping they won't spot that its basically the same damn thing.

 

And then of course, you'll get cultists saying "But why would you want to play games that are MORE than 3 months old? If the Wakibaki takes off, eventually there will ne NEW games, delete all your old faves with over 1000 hours of gameplay each!"

 

It's simple, if recreational PC users who pay for their own software, rather than having it rented by their employer, can't run all their preferred existing apps, they will NOT pay through the nose for some overpriced Futureness Propriatory Lock-In- Fail-Tech.

They didn't buy NEXT, they didn't buy Amiga 500, they mostly haven't bought Metal Arms Mac, and probably won't buy this new thing, unless that "run your old software at least as well if not better" issue isn't solved.

Telling people "We know you love [game title] 4, but IF you all buy this new thing, maybe the publisher will release [game title] 6 on ARM in a year or three" just does not cut it.

 

 

EEee--yup.

[Love Zhaoying]

3 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

It's simple.

Imagine somebody with a Steam account, a decade old, who has spent thousands of $ on recreational software, out of their own pocket.

Then some marketing clown comes along and tells them they should spend 50% more than the cost of a brand new top of the line REAL PC with a grown up OS, on buying the "Wakibaki 9000 with Metal Arms", a machine that will NOT run ANY of their 200+ back catalog of well loved games, games mod loaders, games modding tools, etc.

 

All they are offered is the "amazing new SirLagALot REAL PC to Metal Arms emulator" which runs like molasses in wintertime, and doesn't support ANY of the graphical API's used in the software, and results in degraded graphics.

The moment the PC user sees the word "emulator" they will back away quickly. so, you LIE and call it a "translator" hoping they won't spot that its basically the same damn thing.

 

And then of course, you'll get cultists saying "But why would you want to play games that are MORE than 3 months old? If the Wakibaki takes off, eventually there will ne NEW games, delete all your old faves with over 1000 hours of gameplay each!"

 

It's simple, if recreational PC users who pay for their own software, rather than having it rented by their employer, can't run all their preferred existing apps, they will NOT pay through the nose for some overpriced Futureness Propriatory Lock-In- Fail-Tech.

They didn't buy NEXT, they didn't buy Amiga 500, they mostly haven't bought Metal Arms Mac, and probably won't buy this new thing, unless that "run your old software at least as well if not better" issue isn't solved.

Telling people "We know you love [game title] 4, but IF you all buy this new thing, maybe the publisher will release [game title] 6 on ARM in a year or three" just does not cut it.

 

 

Isn't this exactly what happened with each generation of game consoles?

[steeljane42]

40 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Isn't this exactly what happened with each generation of game consoles?

Not with each, mostly older generations of consoles, and even that is not as simple.

Current generation consoles play entire library of previous generation just fine. I think there were like 10 PS4 titles (that no one heard about) on the incompatible list for PS5. And as much Microsoft did/does wrong, they've been pushing backwards compatibility on Xbox even on previous generation.

PS3>PS4 generation swap was the worst in terms of backwards compatibility, on the Sony's side at least, although it was mitigated (and still does) by the era of remasters and (now) remakes of the older games. At least games that were generation defining back in the days, obviously no one is going to remaster/remake thousands of titles that never got popular even back then.

PS2>PS3 was an odd one, initial PS3 models had PS2 hardware built-in, so they've played PS2 games exactly like PS2 would. Later PS3 models had software emulation, which made it worse.

PS1>PS2 wasn't perfect, but PS2s can read and play most PS1 games of the same region.

But yeah, consoles moved to x86 architecture during previous generation, so it's much easier/better now than it was before.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Isn't this exactly what happened with each generation of game consoles?

Not with each, mostly older generations of consoles, and even that is not as simple.

Ok, sorry - I should have not used the word "each" as obviously some compatibility was preserved here and there.

But yes.

The same is generally NOT happening for PC's, except you can't run old "8-bit" or even "16-bit" programs anymore under Windows without drastic action. (In my own experience with work programs from the early 1990's.)

Edited October 27, 2023 by Love Zhaoying
The program in question was from 1994..and will only run on 32-bit machines now.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The same is generally NOT happening for PC's,

Well you might have no problem running a win 7 compiler or paint app on a win 11 box, but the games world seems to have a different experience, a lot of people stuck with win 7 long into the win 10 era because win 10 had a dreadful rep for causing well loved games to CTD at the publisher logo, or the main menu, not so compatible. A lot of people are doing the same now regarding downgrading from win 10 to win 11.

 

Games tend to push the hardware more, push the envelope, use "undocumented features", etc. far more than word processors, database apps, spreadsheets, accountancy software, and photoshop. Just as an example, I remember hearing from a relative, that back in his day, the company he worked for used Microsoft Flight Simulator as a test for "100 % IBM PC Compatability" when evaluating cheaper non IBM pc's for purchase. NOT the business software they would run, but a game, as it was a better stress test of functionality.

 

That's why so many "recreational pay for their own software" pc users stick with "officially deprecated by whoever" OS versions LONG after the futureness geeks think everyone should have downgraded.

 

OpenGL is a classic example, the geeks said "Awful Mac have declared an end to opengl so EVERYONE will stop using it in the next 2 months" and here we are a couple of years later, and people are giving Awful Mac the finger and STILL use opengl based apps., same with Flash on websites, people didn't suddenly STOP using it at the end of the month because some geeks said they were supposed to.

 

Too much of the Futureness push comes from people who don't pay for their own hardware/software. It's paid for by their employer, or it's a tax deductable expense for their own businesss, and thus a damn sight cheaper than I'd have to pay, or it's a damn review copy, for a youtube tech 'influencer'. It's EASY to claim people should junk their $500 cpu and mobo, and junk their $1500 gpu, and junk their ddr4 ram, and their 6 month old ssd's, and drop 5 grand on a wakibaki 9000 with metal arms because "Futureness!", when the person saying that didn't pay anything like that, if anything.

One Lara Croft Game, almost killed the franchise back when. Part of that was due to the fact that at a time when a reasonable gpu was £50, and a really good gpu was £150, the devs used a £1500 gpu to design the rain effects in the early part of the game, so on normal peoples systems it lagged so bad, just about the first cheat code hack to be published for the game was "How to activate dev mode so you can kill the damn lag-rain because you don't have a £1500 gpu that's not sold to the public, but only to game dev companies".

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Zalificent Corvinus

[AmeliaJ08]

.

Abandoning thread, I wasn't here for some silly PC vs Apple argument that nobody asked for. Requesting deletion, thanks.

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by AmeliaJ08

[Flea Yatsenko]

18 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

 

It's simple.

Imagine somebody with a Steam account, a decade old, who has spent thousands of $ on recreational software, out of their own pocket.

Then some marketing clown comes along and tells them they should spend 50% more than the cost of a brand new top of the line REAL PC with a grown up OS, on buying the "Wakibaki 9000 with Metal Arms", a machine that will NOT run ANY of their 200+ back catalog of well loved games, games mod loaders, games modding tools, etc.

 

All they are offered is the "amazing new SirLagALot REAL PC to Metal Arms emulator" which runs like molasses in wintertime, and doesn't support ANY of the graphical API's used in the software, and results in degraded graphics.

The moment the PC user sees the word "emulator" they will back away quickly. so, you LIE and call it a "translator" hoping they won't spot that its basically the same damn thing.

 

And then of course, you'll get cultists saying "But why would you want to play games that are MORE than 3 months old? If the Wakibaki takes off, eventually there will ne NEW games, delete all your old faves with over 1000 hours of gameplay each!"

 

It's simple, if recreational PC users who pay for their own software, rather than having it rented by their employer, can't run all their preferred existing apps, they will NOT pay through the nose for some overpriced Futureness Propriatory Lock-In- Fail-Tech.

They didn't buy NEXT, they didn't buy Amiga 500, they mostly haven't bought Metal Arms Mac, and probably won't buy this new thing, unless that "run your old software at least as well if not better" issue isn't solved.

Telling people "We know you love [game title] 4, but IF you all buy this new thing, maybe the publisher will release [game title] 6 on ARM in a year or three" just does not cut it.

 

 

People don't really understand how big of a change it is to shift architectures. People won't run Linux full time because there's software that doesn't work as well in Linux. I love Linux, and I still dual boot and keep Windows around for games and other stuff because I don't want to deal with WINE or whatever. If you are using a Windows PC and you want to jump to ARM, uninstall Windows and go Linux only and see if you can still run every single program as easily as you could in Windows.

And just my two cents, but Windows has been getting worse and worse with each version. 11 is terrible, you can't even more the taskbar to a different location. The window manger is missing the most rudimentary features you can find in KDE or Gnome. With Windows going downhill, the last thing I want is to be a second priority for MS and Windows. I can't imagine how much stuff is going to be broken or not work.

The only viable way forward for ARM is Chromebooks and Linux, because you're going to be giving up all that proprietary x86 software anyways so it doesn't really matter if you lose it or not.

Nvidia is just paying for marketing articles. They have always been super salty their Tegras have never really been successful besides Nintendo Switch. I think Jensen Huang is really bitter about AMD having GPUs and CPUs and Nvidia being only a GPU company. Just my two cents but Nvidia has been trying to be relevant in CPUs for over 10 years and it doesn't happen. Much like Intel trying to make serious GPUs with Arc. It's just not going to happen, and the few people who do make the jump will end up stranded and abandoned. I think Nvidia is kind of scared they are only a GPU company, and it's also why they are always making software that does more than play games for their products (AI, etc) and they're always creating software for their GPUs (hairworks, physx, etc)