Other avatars not rendering properly

[siccsixx6]

Hello!

Just updated Firestorm viewer to the latest version. My Avi loads ok but other avatars with high complexity just wont  I feel weird and disconected.
Does some one know how can I fix this? Im not very savy when moving the graphic or memory controls... Any kind of help would be very much appreciated!
THanks!

Edited October 16, 2023 by siccsixx6

[siccsixx6]

Ok, I just literally found out how to do it. Nevermind :,) Issue solved

[Rowan Amore]

12 minutes ago, siccsixx6 said:

Ok, I just literally found out how to do it. Nevermind :,) Issue solved

Anyone with a complexity too high deserves the grey status IMO.  Fully dressed with jewelry and everything, I'm rarely over 60K.

And people wonder why their SL is slow.

[Robberinthemuseum]

21 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Anyone with a complexity too high deserves the grey status IMO.  Fully dressed with jewelry and everything, I'm rarely over 60K.

And people wonder why their SL is slow.

I'm rarely over 70 and I wear legacy and a couple of different huds. I have no idea how they manage it. There was a guy over 200 out dancing today

[steeljane42]

3 hours ago, Robberinthemuseum said:

I have no idea how they manage it.

Unrigged mesh accessories and not cheated LoDs on rigged mesh things will do that. I keep using that example over the years, but people on these forums seems to really believe that current complexity formula actually does something (I don't mean specially you).

This is old non bento Catwa head that is heavier on triangles than your entire avatar combined times 4 (at least, could be 5-7x times). It has 9.2k complexity.  And you can get a simple unrigged mesh bracelet below 10k triangles and 5k VRAM, and under current complexity formula it will be "heavier" than this abomination of a head from the past.

 

LL were redoing formula a few years ago, but either put it on hold or dropped the project completely as there were no news about it for at least couple of years by now.

4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

And people wonder why their SL is slow.

Definitely not because of the formula that has been cheated and played with for years. It's the general amount of triangles and high VRAM usage for nothing in most cases. There are some "amazing" skyboxes I've seen recently that use 2 to 3GB VRAM alone, unfurnished. I can only imagine how official SL viewer works there with its 512MB VRAM limit, which is still a thing I believe.

[Randy Pole]

2 hours ago, steeljane42 said:

I can only imagine how official SL viewer works there with its 512MB VRAM limit, which is still a thing I believe.

It is indeed still a thing and results in textures almost constantly alternating between clear and fuzzy as they load in and out all of the time unless nobody moves, you dont move your camera and nobody enters the sim.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

6 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Anyone with a complexity too high deserves the grey status IMO.  Fully dressed with jewelry and everything, I'm rarely over 60K.

His 1st screen shot, shows his viewer jellydolling people for excessive 'complexity' at around 60kand up, NOT at 200k indicated by the graphics settings in the next screen shot.

 

Check the 'complexity' scores over the heads of the greyed out avatars, one is just UNDER 62k, so either they changed their graphics settings after the first piicture, or their viewer is messing up badly and ignoring the setting.

[Beq Janus]

Keep in mind that complexity is at best a guide and rarely an accurate measure of actual render cost. There are many many items that are perfectly normal, have little impact on your frame rate and yet have a "high" complexity, the number is very poor predictor these days, it was never very good and many too things have changed since it was first defined. Compare that to your typical rigged mesh hair which will frequently show low complexity but can easily be the slowest rendering part. People who insist on jelly dolling at anything under 200K are probably punishing the wrong people a lot of the time. The sooner LL discontinue/fix this crappy misleading number the better we will all be.

Edited October 16, 2023 by Beq Janus
Minor edit for clarity

[AmeliaJ08]

On 10/16/2023 at 7:33 AM, steeljane42 said:

I can only imagine how official SL viewer works there with its 512MB VRAM limit, which is still a thing I believe.

 

On 10/16/2023 at 10:09 AM, North Pole said:

It is indeed still a thing and results in textures almost constantly alternating between clear and fuzzy as they load in and out all of the time unless nobody moves, you dont move your camera and nobody enters the sim.

I just do not understand. I wonder how much trouble this generates for LL support when a fix would be so simple to implement, it's not as if throwing VRAM at SL is a great solution since we can see TPV's thrashing textures awkwardly as well when trying to cope with so much unoptimized content but it does at least take a lot longer for it to happen. 512MB VRAM limit makes zero sense.

Have LL ever explained their reasoning?

[AmeliaJ08]

On 10/16/2023 at 10:51 AM, Beq Janus said:

Keep in mind that complexity is at best a guide and rarely an accurate measure of actual render cost. There are many many items that are perfectly normal, have little impact on your frame rate and yet have a "high" complexity, the number is very poor predictor these days, it was never very good and many too things have changed since it was first defined. Compare that to your typical rigged mesh hair which will frequently show low complexity but can easily be the slowest rendering part. People who insist on jelly dolling at anything under 200K are probably punishing the wrong people a lot of the time. The sooner LL discontinue/fix this crappy misleading number the better we will all be.

Yeah. When I learned it's basically meaningless I just disabled it entirely, occasionally I will encounter an avatar that does genuinely cause me issues but it's so rare that it's not worth setting, I have it on no limit and just derender those very rare instances.

 

[Ardy Lay]

3 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

 

I just do not understand. I wonder how much trouble this generates for LL support when a fix would be so simple to implement, it's not as if throwing VRAM at SL is a great solution since we can see TPV's thrashing textures awkwardly as well when trying to cope with so much unoptimized content but it does at least take a lot longer for it to happen. 512MB VRAM limit makes zero sense.

Have LL ever explained their reasoning?

You may be able to retire this snark soon.

"Improved VRAM Utilization
In order to better facilitate the increased number of textures associated with GLTF PBR materials, improvements have been made to the viewer texture streaming and VRAM utilization. Textures should load more quickly and should downres less often, and Second Life should make full use of available VRAM."

https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/7.0.0.581886.html

[AmeliaJ08]

3 hours ago, Ardy Lay said:

You may be able to retire this snark soon.

"Improved VRAM Utilization
In order to better facilitate the increased number of textures associated with GLTF PBR materials, improvements have been made to the viewer texture streaming and VRAM utilization. Textures should load more quickly and should downres less often, and Second Life should make full use of available VRAM."

https://releasenotes.secondlife.com/viewer/7.0.0.581886.html

Snark?

Okay. Sorry for commenting. Great to know that in an upcoming release the official viewer will be moving out of 2006 as far as how much video memory it can use, exciting.

 

Edited October 17, 2023 by AmeliaJ08