Mayalily Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I'm going to guess about that sig... is that Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers? /me goes to check on lyrics and faints while she waves hello to Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Omg! That signature is from the Traveling Wilbury's Handle Me With Care. Omg, thanks for popping in. You are so brilliant, I don't know what to say. ETA: Say hello to Mike C, he is a genius, as are all the Heartbreakers, Wilbury's and Ms. Nicks. Candy is a work of genius, too. /me faints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: S'ok. As was discussed elsewhere, "we" all look alike. :smileywink: Wait, what? I resemble that remark. :matte-motes-wink-tongue: ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Love may have not answered your questions, but he's done a pretty good job of answering Griffin's. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hawt - Check. Half-naked - Check (Well... I'm wearing a kilt and boots, you may be full-on nekkid for all I know...). Red background - Check. People are going to start to think we're twins. Some already have a hard time telling us apart. I can practically hear the accusations of "ALT!" should I ever start tweeting drunk. :smileyvery-happy: RE the answers to my questions... Yeah. The silence speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setekh Ichtama Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 It is not the fault of the Community for maintaining the standard of conduct set by Linden Lab. Afterall, I had a Linden tell me years ago that we are obligated to report TOS violations each time we see them so, if you're a good resident, you are reporting conduct of others that are in violation or you find personally offensive. I happen to think reminding someone prior to filing a report is a good thing to do if it's not serious, so the person has a chance to adjust their behaviour because after all, this is the whole point of the reporting system, to have individuals conform to a certain standard of behaviour that makes Second Life enjoyable for the most amount of people. Remember, reporting someone for anything, is only bringing the matter to their attention. The person filing the abuse report has no power except to do this much and it's not significant. If they subsequently warn or ban someone because of your report, it is because they have investigated the situation and have determined it was the proper action to take. The person who filed the report should not be held responsible for any outcome; Linden Lab assumes all of that. So, while you might find the whole reporting thing childish, or threats there of, Second Life is a product Linden Lab is trying to clean up. If you are breaking the TOS you are making it difficult for them to sell their product and clean up their reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 So, you think it's okay to threaten to AR people to get them to behave themselves in accordance with your own personal set of standards? Have fun with that. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Hawt - Check. Does this mean I'm now officially "Hawt"? lol. Griffin Ceawlin also wrote: Half-naked - Check (Well... I'm wearing a kilt and boots, you may be full-on nekkid for all I know...). *grins* Griffin Ceawlin wrote as well: Red background - Check. Maybe I should just change mine to magenta. Griffin Ceawlin wrote: I can practically hear the accusations of "ALT!" should I ever start tweeting drunk. :smileyvery-happy: I don't know what you're talking about... lol. ...Dres (if I don't remember it, it didn't happen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 if you know the TOS i'm sure you are doing more good than harm by threatening those who transgress it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setekh Ichtama Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I usually don't say a thing to the person I'm reporting, to be honest. But if I see something inappropirate, I quietly report it because that's what it's there for. Linden's are smart people and I'm sure a lot has changed over the years so I explain what I see and trust they will take everyones concerns into fair consideration besides, most people just don't report and that will become problematic over time. Now, as far as "threatning" someone with a report goes, they aren't saying it because they are certain they will file a report against you, they are saying it because they are giving you an opportunity to correct yourself. It is not a threat as I see it as much as it is a warning. You might feel threatened if you are knowingly doing something wrong but it in and of itself is not a threat as much as an opportunity to avoid trouble, is it not? If you hvae a problem with this, your problem is not with them but with Linden Lab and their Policies. They are the ones that make the rules, the members can only choose to report violations or ignore them, which only tends to make it more acceptable. This is the problem, you've come to a point in your conduct where you act irregardless of the rules and that's not their problem, that's your problem (speaking to those who disagree with what I've said). It's just like telling a group of people you will call the police for loitering in front of your business unless they leave. They have an opportunity to vacate without a problem and that I think is very fair. The alternative is to just call the police and create more trouble that could have been easily avoided. You don't of course fault the business owner who may lose business because of your actions, the laws are in place for a reason. If you dispute any of the TOS, what you should do is visit a Linden during one of their in-world meetings and try to voice your concern however, at the end of the day, it's their decision and no amount of logic or reason wlil matter if it's not something they feel is in their best interests. Thus, if you see something that violtaes the TOS, I believe you should report it especially for those who don't know how and future members who may be offended and leave as a result. Most people are pretty tolerant but there are many kinds of people in Second Life with many belief systems from many cultures and in order for everyone to maintain some level of common ground and good will, they need to follow certain rules of conduct. I personally don't think any of these rules are so restrictive that you cannot still express and enjoy your time in this virtual world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoJo Moeleneaux Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Hawt - Check. Does this mean I'm now officially "Hawt"? lol. _________________________________________ Well I think your both Hawt, boy am I going to regret saying that lol :matte-motes-bashful-cute-2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 The Lindens are smart people? Okay... if you say so. Setekh Ichtama wrote: It's just like telling a group of people you will call the police for loitering in front of your business unless they leave. They have an opportunity to vacate without a problem and that I think is very fair. The alternative is to just call the police and create more trouble that could have been easily avoided. The problem with this analogy is that in SL, if people are loitering in front of your business you can just eject them from your sim. You don't have to threaten to call the police nor do you have to actually call the police. Anyway, I believe the OPs original intent, was to point at the way the system can be abused. Certainly there are times when it's completely appropriate to AR someone, but there are some people that use the system to get back at people they don't like for some reason or who use the threat of an AR to bully people into doing what they want. Surely you're not advocating this behavior... baseless ARs can clog the system making it all the more difficult for the oh so smart Lindens to get to the real problems. If I'm going to AR someone, there has to be a pretty damn good reason and not something that you'd have to warn someone about. Anything less and I can first ask them to stop whatever it is that they're doing that's bothering me. Then if they won't and they're on my land they're gone, if they're not on my land, I'm gone... simple as that. You can do what you want. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 *blushes* ...Dres (It could just be the red background.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 "small minds" "riff raff" POMPOUS ASS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lia Abbot Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 /me rolls my eyes. Help? This lot? /me gets out my oven cleaner and rolls up my sleeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Anyway, I believe the OPs original intent, was to point at the way the system can be abused. Certainly there are times when it's completely appropriate to AR someone, but there are some people that use the system to get back at people they don't like for some reason or who use the threat of an AR to bully people into doing what they want. Surely you're not advocating this behavior... baseless ARs can clog the system making it all the more difficult for the oh so smart Lindens to get to the real problems. The original OP is not new to this discussion: this is an issue that he brought up, on a number of occasions, in the old pre-Lithium GD forum, where he made it abundantly clear that it is not merely abuses of the AR system, but virtually any use of it, that he objected to. If the point of the OP here is that people are abusing the threat of AR to harass people, he hasn't expressed that very clearly. It is, in any case, a rather unnecessary point: is there anyone here likely to argue that using the threat of an abuse report to intimidate or harass is a good thing? As it is, the OP seems to me to be clearly opposed to any use of the AR: "In a virtual world, where you can easily mute and TP away from people (or ban them if it's your own land), what in the world is the need to issue a "report" to Linden Labs?" The OP also speaks of "playing the AR card," language that deliberately parallels criticisms of those who "play" the "race card," or the "gender card," It is in practice coded language that implies that any consideration of race, gender, sexuality, or, in this case, the AR system is somehow "illegitimate" and "unfair." If the OP believes that there are legitimate uses of the AR, he has had plenty of opportunity, and been asked many times, to make that clear. He has not merely not done so: he has consciously and transparently ducked the question everytime it was asked. Setekh is essentially correct. The AR system in SL is, of course, imperfect, and like any system, it can be subject to abuse. The reason that I like the general principle that it embodies, problems (most notably, a lack of transparency) notwithstanding, is that it is effectively "policed" by the community as a whole. LL doesn't search the grid for violations: it lets residents determine for themselves whether something violates the ToS. In practice, of course, this means that individual residents can try to exploit it, but it also means that we get some say in the interpretation of those fuzzy guidelines. This seems to me better than relying upon top-down pro-active enforcement by LL itself. At the same time, LL does investigate and judge individual cases. There are unquestionably bad decisions and inconsistencies, but on the whole I think that LL does a good job of this. In practice, this means that harassing and abusive ARs seldom have any impact on the intended victim at all: in fact, they may not even know they have been filed. The exception, and one that LL clearly should address, are those ARs that involve particularly sensitive issues, such as underage residents or sexual age play: I agree that LL is a bit trigger-happy when it comes to those. To the OP, who is clearly unhappy with any kind of infringement of his "right" to be an abuser, jerk, or whatever, I would suggest he apply a variant of his own advice to those unhappy with what they witness in Second Life. Ban, Mute, TP away . . . and Uninstall Perhaps he can find another virtual sandbox that doesn't care about whether its customers are subject to abuse or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 When I see ToS abusive conduct I report it. When I don't I don't. I always include the screenshot if I can with the report. There is simply no other way to keep the rules enforced properly in SL, other than to use the reporting system. The whole 'hate on snitching' is a pretty juvenille reaction that only undermines social harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Lia Abbot wrote: /me rolls my eyes. Help? This lot? /me gets out my oven cleaner and rolls up my sleeves. /me grins at Lia . . . and passes her a scrubby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabid Cheetah Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 "It's almost as if the current world social climate dictates that you need to rat out your neighbor for anything you can find." ***BANG!!!*** ***BANG!!!*** ***BANG!!!*** ***BANG!!!*** That's the sound of Love Leonoase hitting the nail on the head. :womanwink: Worst case I heard was a new player who IM'd me about a veteran player accusing her of being someone else, being an alt account just to move in next to him and ruin his land prices, grief him, yada yada yad I'm going to ruin you and report you blah blah blah. All this clear out of the blue, after she'd bought his land at an inflated price and befriended him, but then made the "mistake" of spurning his *ahem* advances. Poor girl IM'd me in tears, not even understanding what all his long-term player terminology meant ("What's an alt?"), and telling me she's ready to just quit SL since he's going to get her in trouble anyhow. I did a Googlwe search on trhe guy's username, and sent her the url for some sites run by OTHER FOLKS who'd had such a problem with him they'd started blogs abouot what a jerk he is. That got her calmed down, and I let her know that if anyone's going to loose their account, it will be him for filing a false report. The dude eventually moved, the girl is now one of me best friends in SL (seems I have a habit of taking newbies under my wings), and all is well. ***Connie's father from King of the Hill: "Universe in harmony!"*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 We are still waiting for Love to answer a few simple questions. Perhaps he is re-reading the ToS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Void Singer Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 do or do not, there is no point in threatening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylla Rhiadra Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 So, how big a problem is this "harassment by AR" thing, really? I've been pretty active in Second Life now very nearly 3 years. I've owned a home, and for 2 1/2 years I've been a small business owner. I've written extensively in a number of SL forums and blogs, and run several of my own. I think it's probably fair to say that I am reasonably outspoken, and my views frequently contentious. I've created in-world exhibits that critiqued certain popular forms of RP and behaviours, and I've led in-world protests at sims that featured these. i've spent a fair amount of time at places in SL that might be described as . . . dodgy. And I've been banned from a number of places, some of which I've never even visited . . . . . . but I have never, to my recollection, been threatened with an AR. Now, it's entirely possible I've had hundreds filed against me, but I have not once, ever, been warned or disciplined by LL. To me, that seems to suggest that the system works pretty well. Or, I dunno, maybe it's just my naturally sunny disposition and adorable smile? :matte-motes-wink-tongue: So, while I am not going to deny that people have been subject to this kind of harassment, I really have to wonder how common it is. And what one has to do, where one has to go, or whom one must consort with to be subject to this? Which does bring us back to Griffin's question: what kinds of behaviour was the OP being threatened over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Void Singer wrote: do or do not, there is no point in threatening Ummm .. well ... yeah, there is a point to threatening. Sometimes folks get a little heated and forget themselves. They start doing and saying things that are ToS violations and could get them in a lot of trouble .. if reported. By granting them the courtesy of a threat, you offer them the chance to self-correct. If they refuse to accept the courtesy, then yeah file an AR and let the Lindens sort it out. But a properly couched and well stated threat does indeed have a useful purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabid Cheetah Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 I think both the OP, and the other folks in this thread, have made it clear that it's not always a case of engaging in activities that some might find objectionable. Sometimes there are cases where people get their feathers ruffled for personal reasons, and throw out the AR threat. Such as the example I cited, a new player getting threatened by some dude who has a documented history of flying off the hanlde at folks in a state of paranoia. AR's can, indeed, wind up in the griefer's arwsenal of weaponry. For what it's worth, I don't think the OP is under any obligation whatsoever to answer any of your questions. Our society seems to have a notion that if someone asks a question of someone, they have to answer it. Maybe she's just tired of this thread at this point, or feels things are veering way off topic at this point. I am curious, though, about these protests you've done. And these aren't against folks in public areas, like the newbie landing spot or various sandboxes, or at various events and such that someone you don't agree with happened to show up at -- You've actually gone to a given sim just to raise a ruckus for what goes on there? I know I'm opening Pandora's Box, but I can't resist: This has GOT to be an intersting tale... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabid Cheetah Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Well...there's a difference between casually nudging someone and sayin' " 'cmon, you're gettin' a bit out of control, might want to tone it down..." versus screaming "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! I'M GONNA REPROT YOU!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!eleven!!!!!" The former is a courtesy; The later is a threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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