Yet Another Disillusioned Mainland Land Owner

[BilliJo Aldrin]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..if someone unexpectedly buys the land next door from someone else, and then ruins your view, you don't get a chance for any say in the matter.

..and, not everyone can afford the extra tier to endlessly expand their land to avoid an "unspoiled view".

Your use-case for "micro-parcels" is not most people's reality.  Most people want to use the tier they get from Premium, or whatever land tier they "leveled up to".

- That does not mean buying tiny parcels all over the grid then jumping up and down and screeching like an impotent monkey because a neighbor bought the microparcel next door and built a giant Sith obelisk on it.

- It means, once someone uses their full land tier level, they can't just go and buy the neighbor's parcel once it becomes available, to avoid an unspoiled view.

Restated: Your example using microparcels is not representative of how people actually buy and use land (usually).  Recall that YOU are buying the land to sell, not to use for yourself. So in this case, YOU do not care whether someone spoils the view, unless it makes the land unsaleable. 

The complaint that one of your parcels in this example is encroached by the road:

The above is a specious argument. You don't really care that that the road is encroaching your parcel, you care because it is an "ad board" parcel;  you want someone to see your ad boards (or buy the land).  Anyone else would be upset that there are ugly ad boards blocking THEIR view.  

So..someone else should take responsibility for what YOU do? They should take responsibility for the fact YOU block THEIR view?  That sure is an interesting argument.

 

When you buy land, you only buy the land, you don't buy the view

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Quistess Alpha said:

"#X - protected" generally means the number of sides which are adjacent to linden-owned property or a border to a non-extant region.

I often see land advertised as  protected, with amazing views, when in fact it is adjacent to abandoned land. In that case its buyer beware, because who knows what could be there tomorrow.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I wasn't asking them to buy my land. I bought my parcels AFTER they had bought their 512 and moved in. My point was they should have bought the micro parcels BEFORE I bought them, to assure unblocked access to the road.

I really have no interest in who buys my parcel. I kept one for myself with no intent to sell it to anyone, the other will sell in a week or two at $500 L

By the way, someone bought parcel #3 in the original picture, the 1x protected piece I declined to buy for $200 L. They have some sort of game on it now

I'd argue that anyone "buying" mainland should buy it for a group instead of as an individual. Then someone with 512 m lot could buy 48 sq m of land in the same region if they wish, without paying more tier. 

Everyone has different desires, needs and perspectives, however, which is fine.

Perhaps someone else isn't swooping in to get the virtual land deal you think is so great because they're working overtime in RL, a loved one is in the hospital, their country is under attack, or they're fighting a serious illness themself?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Opinions please, which is more valuable? The parcel the owner bought, or the parcel he could have had by buying those micro parcels for $700 L extra?

 

 

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'd argue that anyone "buying" mainland should buy it for a group instead of as an individual. Then someone with 512 m lot could buy 48 sq m of land in the same region if they wish, without paying more tier. 

Everyone has different desires, needs and perspectives, however, which is fine.

Perhaps someone else isn't swooping in to get the virtual land deal you think is so great because they're working overtime in RL, a loved one is in the hospital, their country is under attack, or they're fighting a serious illness themself?

They didn't need extra tier, they could have cut 64 sq m off of the back and abandoned it first.

People in here seem to think that if I didn't buy the micro parcels, they would have stayed vacant.

I assure you a 16 sq m 2x protected parcel for $250 L lasts a day at most, so if I didn't buy it, someone else certainly would have.

So, why not me?

Edited June 5, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
changed word

[BilliJo Aldrin]

For the record, not everyone thinks advertising on micro parcels is evil.

I consider it a legitimate use of a tiny parcel, and so does LInden Lab, that's why they have a long list of rules for how they are to operate.

You don't like them, look the other way, or get LL to change the rules governing them.

If LL ever outlaws them, I will immediately abandon all of them, because I always play by the rules.

Have a nice day everyone.

[elleevelyn]

7 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Opinions please, which is more valuable? The parcel the owner bought, or the parcel he could have had by buying those micro parcels for $700 L extra?

 

 

 

 

the rectangular parcel is more valuable in terms of best utilising the space, which is uppermost in the minds of resident owners. Irregular shape parcels use up more filler prettifier prims than do regular rectangular parcels

i realise that you assuming that the price a parcel can potentially sell for L$ is what makes it valuable; but for the typical resident/home owner the resell price pretty much doesn't factor into their purchasing decision.s And where L$ does factor, it is in the purchase price. That person paid a whole lot less for that rectangle because of the 16m parcels, so a bargain for them. A bargain that will probably get dumped for even less L$ when the person decides to move on, the parcel abandoned even 

ps add

i just make it clear what the effect of 16m parcels is. They devalue the neighbouring parcels. That Linden allow the cutting and reselling of micro parcels, doesn't change the devaluation effect that this activity has on neighbouring parcels. If Linden ever did ban micro parcel trading it would be for this reason, to stop the devaluation of the larger area 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by elleevelyn
typs

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So, why not me?

Oh, why not? Deep in the dark, Objectivist heart there's a "free market" in looted artifacts, rhino horn powder, and ivory, too. Have at it.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Opinions please, which is more valuable? The parcel the owner bought, or the parcel he could have had by buying those micro parcels for $700 L extra?

 

 

 

Your question is not necessarily relevant to the owner's situation - at all. 

They could have maxed out their tier, etc.  

I find it interesting that you care, since it's "their personal responsibility" so kind of "none of your business".  At least, if the tables were turned.

You wanting to put ads up that block the pristine view (or whatever, "ugly ads") - is the "personal responsibility equivalent" of the owner choosing NOT to buy more parcels.

 

 

 

[Nukasa22]

On 6/4/2023 at 3:36 PM, BilliJo Aldrin said:

buy the three 16 sq m parcels for the total asking price of $750

That is completely overpriced. By the looks of it it falls into the category of forbidden land cutting.

The only right thing to do in that case would have been to file an Abuse Report against the owner(s) of these parcels as soon as they were created.

Apart from that. Not everyone who owns land is a "pro". There are people who don't know how to file an Abuse Report or don't know that they have this option. There are people who don't know how to deed their land to their group to profit from the additional %. There are people who don't even want to do that because it's too complicated for them. And that's fine. They're not the ones responsible for overpriced micro parcels getting cut at the road, the land cutter is.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Nukasa22

[Sparkle Bunny]

8 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Opinions please, which is more valuable? The parcel the owner bought, or the parcel he could have had by buying those micro parcels for $700 L extra?

The new parcel he's got away from you.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

10 hours ago, elleevelyn said:

 

the rectangular parcel is more valuable in terms of best utilising the space, which is uppermost in the minds of resident owners. Irregular shape parcels use up more filler prettifier prims than do regular rectangular parcels

i realise that you assuming that the price a parcel can potentially sell for L$ is what makes it valuable; but for the typical resident/home owner the resell price pretty much doesn't factor into their purchasing decision.s And where L$ does factor, it is in the purchase price. That person paid a whole lot less for that rectangle because of the 16m parcels, so a bargain for them. A bargain that will probably get dumped for even less L$ when the person decides to move on, the parcel abandoned even 

ps add

i just make it clear what the effect of 16m parcels is. They devalue the neighbouring parcels. That Linden allow the cutting and reselling of micro parcels, doesn't change the devaluation effect that this activity has on neighbouring parcels. If Linden ever did ban micro parcel trading it would be for this reason, to stop the devaluation of the larger area 

 

 

The owner abandoned it 2 days after I put up my ad board. As for irregular shapes I disagree, he had a modest house with lots of yard space . The 64 m cut of the back to add the road front parcels wouldn't be missed and would be compensated  for by have full road access.

Except in the cities, most roads run thru sims at an angle, so if you want roadfront, you need an irregular shape

If i had to choose between regular shape, or full roadfront, i'd take the latter, but that's just me

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 hours ago, Sparkle Bunny said:

The new parcel he's got away from you.

Let's hope there isn't a cheep micro parcel for sale in front of his new house, because if he doesn't buy it, I will

😁

[BilliJo Aldrin]

7 hours ago, Nukasa22 said:

That is completely overpriced. By the looks of it it falls into the category of forbidden land cutting.

The only right thing to do in that case would have been to file an Abuse Report against the owner(s) of these parcels as soon as they were created.

Apart from that. Not everyone who owns land is a "pro". There are people who don't know how to file an Abuse Report or don't know that they have this option. There are people who don't know how to deed their land to their group to profit from the additional %. There are people who don't even want to do that because it's too complicated for them. And that's fine. They're not the ones responsible for overpriced micro parcels getting cut at the road, the land cutter is.

I've said it before $250 L for a 2x protected 16 sq m parcel is dirt cheep.

And I agree, he cut the land into 3 tiny parcels,which is totally totally forbidden,

However, it's not forbidden for me to purchase them, so I bought two of them.

One for an ad board, and one to resell.

Edited June 5, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
added a line

[BilliJo Aldrin]

8 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Your question is not necessarily relevant to the owner's situation - at all. 

They could have maxed out their tier, etc.  

I find it interesting that you care, since it's "their personal responsibility" so kind of "none of your business".  At least, if the tables were turned.

You wanting to put ads up that block the pristine view (or whatever, "ugly ads") - is the "personal responsibility equivalent" of the owner choosing NOT to buy more parcels.

 

 

 

Once again you missed what I said he could have done. He could have cut off a useless 4 by 16 strip off the back abandoned it, and used the 64 sq m now available to buy the highly useful micro parcels in front. He needed no extra tier for that.

But, he could have also just turned the house around so the living room faced the back yard and empty sim, planted a big tree in front of the micro parcels, and forgot about them He still had his 4 m protected strip for a driveway for road access.

There are always alternatives to abandoning your land when things don't go your way.

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

9 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

Oh, why not? Deep in the dark, Objectivist heart there's a "free market" in looted artifacts, rhino horn powder, and ivory, too. Have at it.

Seriously though, I buy cheep roadside micro parcels and use them for networked advertising, or to resell them. It's not illegal.

I also buy interior 16 sq m parcels if they are less than $25 L and raise the price by $100 L for resale. They always sell eventually.

All i'm doing is what every other land flipper in SL is doing.

Perhaps you would be happier if LL banned ALL land sales. If you want land you submit a support ticket to LL and they carve it out for you

Until buying and selling land is banned, I'll carry on.

[Love Zhaoying]

23 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Seriously though, I buy cheep roadside micro parcels and use them for networked advertising, or to resell them. It's not illegal.

I also buy interior 16 sq m parcels if they are less than $25 L and raise the price by $100 L for resale. They always sell eventually.

All i'm doing is what every other land flipper in SL is doing.

Perhaps you would be happier if LL banned ALL land sales. If you want land you submit a support ticket to LL and they carve it out for you

Until buying and selling land is banned, I'll carry on.

Good job, thank you for adding to the Second Life Economy!

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

All i'm doing is what every other land flipper in SL is doing.

In the way every financial transaction is the same as dealing in blood diamonds, sure.

Trading in microparcels is extortion, plain and simple. And oh how it annoys the extortionist when somebody just won't play the game: they must be such disillusioned mainland owners not to pay the microparcel ransom. Let us make a forums thread about it.

There's no virtue in providing liquidity to a villainous market. Whatever else real land flippers do, they trade in something of value, rather than in microparcels that only have value by going away.

[Rowan Amore]

19 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

In the way every financial transaction is the same as dealing in blood diamonds, sure.

Trading in microparcels is extortion, plain and simple. And oh how it annoys the extortionist when somebody just won't play the game: they must be such disillusioned mainland owners not to pay the microparcel ransom. Let us make a forums thread about it.

There's no virtue in providing liquidity to a villainous market. Whatever else real land flippers do, they trade in something of value, rather than in microparcels that only have value by going away.

Maybe after enough of these types of threads, LL might rethink their policy on micro parcels and ad farming.  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

34 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

In the way every financial transaction is the same as dealing in blood diamonds, sure.

Trading in microparcels is extortion, plain and simple. And oh how it annoys the extortionist when somebody just won't play the game: they must be such disillusioned mainland owners not to pay the microparcel ransom. Let us make a forums thread about it.

There's no virtue in providing liquidity to a villainous market. Whatever else real land flippers do, they trade in something of value, rather than in microparcels that only have value by going away.

I never extort anyone. If I list a micro parcel for sale, I rezz a small boulder on it as a  notice to me of sale when it gets returned. None of my parcels that are for sale destroys anyone's view. Now, I have no control over what the buyer does with the parcel, but that's really not my concern.

If my micro parcel does destroy your view, it's because its not for sale, but is instead one of my networked advertisements.

I hope this clears things up

The picture is of one of my 16 sq m 2x protected parcels for sale. Asking price $500 L. I'm not extorting anyone, I'm not destroying anyone's view, if it never sells it never sells, but it always will in a week or two. There isn't a giant glowing for sale sign, just a simple boulder

Edited June 6, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
added words and a picture

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Maybe after enough of these types of threads, LL might rethink their policy on micro parcels and ad farming.  

I don't ad farm, ad farming is already illegal.

If however, they change the rules on networked advertising, I will be the first to comply.

[Rowan Amore]

Yes, the distinction is miniscule.  We all.know that.  

They don't disallow micro parcels or advertising but do go.on to say this...

The issue here is not advertising, or parcel sizes; it's the way both are used together to the detriment of the Mainland as a whole.

Network advertising AND ad farming fall into the same category in regards to the detriment of mainland.

So, although not technically illegal, you and I and everyone else knows it's shady behavior.  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Yes, the distinction is miniscule.  We all.know that.  

They don't disallow micro parcels or advertising but do go.on to say this...

The issue here is not advertising, or parcel sizes; it's the way both are used together to the detriment of the Mainland as a whole.

Network advertising AND ad farming fall into the same category in regards to the detriment of mainland.

So, although not technically illegal, you and I and everyone else knows it's shady behavior.  

Then its up to LL to eliminate this once and for all if it is a problem, but LL itself has said its not a big enough concern to ban the practice,  and has a long list of rules to mitigate any issues that may arise, including allowing a landowner to AR any micro parcel that is interfering with their enjoyment of SL

I do believe they need to be a neighboring landowner though, and not just someone driving down the road being offended by every ad board they see.

You know, to hear people in this forum talk, a drive down a mainland road produces an endless procesion of advertising on micro parcels. I'm surprised there are any roadfront parcels left, they should all be blocked out by micro parcels.

The truth is, micro parcel advertising on a per sim basis is quite limited and not an unreasonable amount at all.

 

 

[Rowan Amore]

What business do you actually run that you're advertising?  Is it just to get clicks for your adult blog?  I don't see a business listed in your profile and normally, only noobs pay attention to mainland ads so who is your target audience?

You have a great night!

[Love Zhaoying]

52 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

I hope this clears things up

The picture is of one of my 16 sq m 2x protected parcels for sale. Asking price $500 L. I'm not extorting anyone, I'm not destroying anyone's view, if it never sells it never sells, but it always will in a week or two. There isn't a giant glowing for sale sign, just a simple boulder

If I understand properly, you requested an abandoned plot for either "free" or L$16, and are selling it for L$500.

Now, that's taking personal responsibility while creating value!

Good show!