When you are ripped off by a creator

[SophieWillows]

OK so I paid 3300 lindens for a dance pack. The packet was never delivered and the creator/owner seller  has not responded to me at all.  The redelivery terminal in his store  does not have the items registered, nor will it redeliver the items listed there.   I feel the avatar may have left sl, so why is he allowed to keep a store  taking lindens from people and not deliver the goods?   This is basically theft. What protections do we have from Linden against this? 

 

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I had no idea where to put it! 

Edited May 11, 2023 by SophieWillows
spelling

[Gwin LeShelle]

16 minutes ago, SophieWillows said:

OK so I paid 3300 lindens for a dance pack. The packet was never delivered and the creator/owner seller  has not responded to me at all.  The redelivery terminal in his store  does not have the items registered, nor will it redeliver the items listed there.   I feel the avatar may have left sl, so why is he allowed to keep a store  taking lindens from people and not deliver the goods?   This is basically theft. What protections do we have from Linden against this? 

 

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I had no idea where to put it! 

How much time passed between you paying and contacting them and this post? 🤔

Many people are not online daily or get capped IMs, have you sent a note card?

[Shiloh Lyric]

If the items were at an event, or recently at an event and only just added to the store, I've found Redelivery Terminals may not be updated right away. Also, give Creators time to respond. Many have RL jobs and commitments, just like the rest of us. Or there may be a big time zone difference. Their profile should have some information on the best way to contact them or any CSR they might employ in SL.

[SophieWillows]

Thank you Shiloh, but no they were not at an event so your comments just do not apply here.  If you think I have not tried to contact then you are very wrong.  I believe this creator has been gone a while..   I didnt want to name and shame , but I shall if necessary. There is never a weeks difference in time -zones I find and usually a responsible seller will get back to you when able, or indeed have a CSR - this creator does not and gives incorrect information on his profile concerning customer support.  ( I know cos I tried it)  having been in sl a little while I do know how some things works. Again thanks for your comment.

[SophieWillows]

Thank you Gwin, yes I have sent a message on his website ( although the info contained in his website is wrong), I have sent 2 notecards, and several IM.s . To put this here was a last resort for me, overall I have been in sl 14years . The point is IS there any protection for sl citizens being basically robbed by store owners!

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, SophieWillows said:

Thank you Gwin, yes I have sent a message on his website ( although the info contained in his website is wrong), I have sent 2 notecards, and several IM.s . To put this here was a last resort for me, overall I have been in sl 14years . The point is IS there any protection for sl citizens being basically robbed by store owners!

In the situation where the creator is no longer in SL, sorry, no. 

Please keep in mind that many passed during the Covid pandemic and can't return.

[Gwin LeShelle]

6 minutes ago, SophieWillows said:

Thank you Gwin, yes I have sent a message on his website ( although the info contained in his website is wrong), I have sent 2 notecards, and several IM.s . To put this here was a last resort for me, overall I have been in sl 14years . The point is IS there any protection for sl citizens being basically robbed by store owners!

No sadly there is no protection, LL considers such things a "Resident to Resident dispute" and won't interact.

And I don't really think this was on purpose by the creator, delivery glitches happen, and maybe the creator is bound to RL atm maybe they have a surgery, sickness or family thing going on. Or even died in RL.

If they have a store group you could also ask there if someone else experienced similar things with said creator. 

I know it's not a nice situation, but in this case I wouldn't think it was malicious. 

I would send another NC and probably move on, and add this certain store to my internal blacklist x3

Maybe when you are premium you could ask live chat but as I said LL probably will just quote the resident to resident dispute thing.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Gwin LeShelle

[SophieWillows]

Gwin for you info  I am already Premium, and actually as soon as time allows I will contact support live- although I have very little hope. I am putting this down to experience and moving on- it seems sadly I cannot warn others about  this and there fore they may be ripped off too .  I never said it was malicious. Like I said, I am moving on. 

[Michael Blackwood]

Very honestly - and I know that doesn't exactly help in this very situation, but - honestly, this kind of stuff is why I shop on MP only. And always have.
I only ever buy something inworld if it's either cheap at an event, where I don't care about my 60 or so L$ if they go lost, or I don't find a suitable product I need and have to resort to buying inworld. But I avoid it like the plague.

[EliseAnne85]

6 hours ago, SophieWillows said:

OK so I paid 3300 lindens for a dance pack. The packet was never delivered and the creator/owner seller  has not responded to me at all.  The redelivery terminal in his store  does not have the items registered, nor will it redeliver the items listed there.   I feel the avatar may have left sl, so why is he allowed to keep a store  taking lindens from people and not deliver the goods?   This is basically theft. What protections do we have from Linden against this? 

 

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, I had no idea where to put it! 

Did you relog and check if it's there?  

Relogging sometimes has to be done with MP purchases too.

It's the only glitch I ever get but every time I relog, it's there.  

Also, could you describe the glitch?  What happened?  If it copies, it copies; if it delivers content, it delivers content.  Did you crash?  Crashing hardly ever happens anymore.  Ever.

Edited May 11, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[SophieWillows]

Elise, yes it happenned over a week ago now, I have logged in may times since then, but thank you.

[Gwin LeShelle]

Ah well since I got a rather rude personal message from this person, I won't try helping any further

Good luck with it tho 💙

Edited May 11, 2023 by Gwin LeShelle

[EliseAnne85]

19 minutes ago, SophieWillows said:

Elise, yes it happenned over a week ago now, I have logged in may times since then, but thank you.

Okay, first of all I am sure it is not a "glitch".  What could be the problem is the vendor you paid had individual dances and the full fatpack in there (supposedly for sale).  However, the seller may have forgotten to load the fatpack of the dances into the vendor.  It could have been a human oversight but if there is no communication on this, I'd suggest you contact LL so they can check the vendor itself.  

See, how vendors work is the seller has to put all the items in there and this one may have ended up in human error in the loading of items into the vendor.

Alert LL about it.  

[CaithLynnSayes]

So it's not all that difficult to put "dance pack" and "L$3300" in a search and figure out pretty quickly exactly what and from who you bought. That creator is still active in SL. I dove in a little deeper and looked at this creator's profile to see what groups they are in and wouldn't you know it, they are in a couple of groups i also happen to be in. Took me a few because LL "improved" groups by just not populating member lists if they are too big (Still sour about that one LL, anyway...!)

This creator (i'm fairly sure i found the creator you are talking about) has last been online 27th of april 2023 so they didn't leave SL. You said, rather condescending, that you are 14 years in SL. I'm 10 years in SL and know this basic way to track someone down in SL. Just saying

 

Here's some advice. Instead of shaming here by saying in the title of this thread that someone "ripped you off", try and have a little patience. Like most people here said, sometimes people have other things going on in their RL and can't come to SL that often. But as i saw that apparently you had to send someone here a rude private message while they were trying to help you, kinda says a lot about you. So maybe i should expect a rude message too?

Have patience, this creator is still active and i'm sure they will get back to you as soon as they can. Going to the forums for this type of thing is... Well i won't say what i think about it. LL has deleted way too many of my messages as is.

[SophieWillows]

I suspect you have the wrong shop , If you care to message me telling me which shop you think it is?

[CaithLynnSayes]

I bet y'all are wondering now what happend in this private message conversation ha?  

[Rowan Amore]

I had an issue with a creator of dance packs last year.  It wasn't specific to his packs but his AO.  I sent an IM as requested in his profile and probably sent a notecard, as well.  It was, at the least, 2 weeks before I heard back and he addressed my issue.  He hasn't released anything new in quite a few years so I'm guessing he's not as active as he once was.  

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 hours ago, SophieWillows said:

Gwin for you info  I am already Premium, and actually as soon as time allows I will contact support live- although I have very little hope. I am putting this down to experience and moving on- it seems sadly I cannot warn others about  this and there fore they may be ripped off too .  I never said it was malicious. Like I said, I am moving on. 

In case no one has mentioned it, LL has begun cleanup of the MP and (long story short) any stores that haven't been active within a certain amount of time are being removed.

[Shiloh Lyric]

4 hours ago, Gwin LeShelle said:

Ah well since I got a rather rude personal message from this person, I won't try helping any further

Good luck with it tho 💙

I suspect that 'help' isn't what they actually wanted. I believe they wanted a creator to be arrested for theft, or have LL intercede on their behalf as being the 'victim' of 'theft'.  Something like that. They seem more upset about what they perceive as a lack of accountability than giving anyone the benefit of the doubt or just taking the "L" and moving on with a lesson learned.

[SophieWillows]

Wow, I do wonder why people people are so concerned in telling me off when its me that has spent the money and not recieved

25 minutes ago, Shiloh Lyric said:

They seem more upset about what they perceive as a lack of accountability than giving anyone the benefit of the doubt or just taking the "L" and moving on with a lesson learned.

the items paid for! I dont want any one arrested !! I merely asked if there were any protections given to residents that find themselves in this situation.   I have privately messaged a couple of people , purposely for 2 reasons- the main one being NOT to name and shame the owner/designer/creator.  I don't actually know what "taking the "L""  means  but please I dont  really need an explanation  so please dont give one.  Those that have helped I have thanked appropriately.   To not supply goods that have been paid for is I believe a breach of terms and conditions, just as sharing private conversation with third parties is. I may be wrong on that of course. I  will not apologise for being naturally upset at spending money and receiving no service, anyone would be. If I had not put anything on this forum I would not know that allegedly the creator IS still in SL and also that this has happened to other people buying products from the same person, so for that the forum post has been successful.   Why should we  accept very poor service in SL or RL?   I have nothing more to say. Thank you everyone for your inputs.

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, SophieWillows said:

Wow, I do wonder why people people are so concerned in telling me off when its me that has spent the money and not recieved

the items paid for! I dont want any one arrested !! I merely asked if there were any protections given to residents that find themselves in this situation.   I have privately messaged a couple of people , purposely for 2 reasons- the main one being NOT to name and shame the owner/designer/creator.  I don't actually know what "taking the "L""  means  but please I dont  really need an explanation  so please dont give one.  Those that have helped I have thanked appropriately.   To not supply goods that have been paid for is I believe a breach of terms and conditions, just as sharing private conversation with third parties is. I may be wrong on that of course. I  will not apologise for being naturally upset at spending money and receiving no service, anyone would be. If I had not put anything on this forum I would not know that allegedly the creator IS still in SL and also that this has happened to other people buying products from the same person, so for that the forum post has been successful.   Why should we  accept very poor service in SL or RL?   I have nothing more to say. Thank you everyone for your inputs.

 

It isn't just the one merchant, and it doesn't happen just on the MP. I have been ripped off by inworld vending machines, never gotten the item, never heard a word from the creator. LL has never gotten involved in these kinds of disputes because of the federal laws as well as California laws in the nearly 20 years I've been in SL.

Quote

4.4 Linden Lab has no obligation to accept returns or provide refunds of any amounts paid for products or services purchased from Linden Lab.

 

https://www.lindenlab.com/tos#tos4

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, SophieWillows said:

To not supply goods that have been paid for is I believe a breach of terms and conditions, just as sharing private conversation with third parties is. I may be wrong on that of course

9.1 Linden Lab is NOT liable for its users' actions, and you release Linden Lab from any claims relating to other users.

You agree not to hold Linden Lab liable for the Content, actions, or inactions of other users. As a condition of access to the Service, you release Linden Lab (and its officers, directors, shareholders, agents, subsidiaries and employees) from claims, demands, losses, liabilities and damages (actual and consequential) of every kind and nature, known and unknown, arising out of or in any way connected with any dispute you have or claim to have with one or more users, including whether or not Linden Lab becomes involved in any resolution or attempted resolution of the dispute.

[EliseAnne85]

2 hours ago, SophieWillows said:

To not supply goods that have been paid for is I believe a breach of terms and conditions.  I may be wrong on that of course. I  will not apologise for being naturally upset at spending money and receiving no service, anyone would be. 

Since SL is run by what could be thousands and thousands of inworld sellers, SL is basically a buyer beware policy alongside the good faith policy by individual sellers.  LL doesn't have the staff to cover all the SL stores.  And, it would be expensive to hire the help to do that and that cost would be passed onto us.  Plus, it's not really LL's problem anyway as they did not set up the vendors.

I suggested you ask because I did not know the store you were speaking of and it could have been a store full of empty vendors for all I know which would be a fraud.  If there were a store like that, LL would shut it down I'm going to assume.  However, I should have stated were LL to find such a store with all empty vendors, they might not even let you know, but they would just shut it down most likely.   And, that would be a good thing for all SL users.  

The vendors are filled by a human being who is prone to human error and can make a mistake.  

I double and triple check my vendors to make sure everything is in there and it takes hours of work just doing the double and triple checking.  The person might have gotten a little lazy, or tired, or something in real life happened to distract their filling the vendor.

Wait another week or so.  There is still hope you may get your item.

Also, open the local chat for that group every day and type in that group chat if there is anyone who can help you...as your item was not delivered.

Edited May 12, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Chic Aeon]

I read this when it first came on then lost it and not reading all the comments so if this has been said, sorry.

Since Linden Lab now OWNS and runs the major vendor company --- if this WAS a problem with the vendor system (I had one last week which I thought was odd) then perhaps a support ticket might get you somewhere. You would need all the info showing that the money was deducted, time etc.  

 

In GENERAL as I am sure it has been said LL doesn't get into these citizen issues.  If it was the fault of the VENDOR system however it seems like they should rectify somehow. 

 

That's all I've got

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

Did you check in your transaction history whether that L$3300 actually took place? In rare cases, payment does not occur and, consequently, redelivery will not work.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Arduenn Schwartzman