Linux Problem

[Monty Linden]

31 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'd be more satisfied if you succeeded! Was rooting for you!

Ditto.  Wanted to see this up and running.  We're here for tech questions if you or anyone wants to take another swing at it.

Not certain it helps but I was able to get some genuine Pi4 compute modules recently.  Stuffed into an adapter board, might be another way to play with Pi.

[Monty Linden]

14 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

and my TV service suddenly won't produce watchable TV programmes.

This may be a blessing in disguise.

[bigmoe Whitfield]

3 minutes ago, Monty Linden said:

Ditto.  Wanted to see this up and running.  We're here for tech questions if you or anyone wants to take another swing at it.

Not certain it helps but I was able to get some genuine Pi4 compute modules recently.  Stuffed into an adapter board, might be another way to play with Pi.

I've been unable to get any pi's at all,  count your blessings.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

I've been unable to get any pi's at all,  count your blessings.

I've got a few, only used them for game emulation.

Need to try my hand at compiling a thing!

Because programmer!

[Phil Deakins]

12 hours ago, Monty Linden said:

This may be a blessing in disguise.

Not so far into the evening  Anyway, I rebooted my Amazon Fire TV Stick and all was well.

And my phone finally booted up and is running ok

 

[Phil Deakins]

If anyone takes it up and tries, all Pi4s are Pi4Bs, and all have the 64 bit ARMv8 CPU. But many or most of them have the 32 bit OS, which causes them to report that they have the ARMv7l CPU.

Raspberry Pi eventually came up with a 64 bit OS, which I installed on the Pi I was trying it with. Even then, Henri said that, "You need to find a Linux distribution with glibc v2.32 or newer. Short of this, you won't be able to use or build the viewer with the current pre-built libraries (you'd need to rebuild them too, which is way beyond your current expertise)". Being a linux dummy, I barely understand that, and that's where we gave up. But someone who has some linux expertise might be able to do it. Henri does have a viewer for the ARM that's ready to go - just not on my Pi4B's linux distro, that's all.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Phil Deakins

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

55 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Even then, Henri said that, "You need to find a Linux distribution with glibc v2.32 or newer

This is the missing library that causes the current 3D-printing slicer programs to fail to install. I didn't go any further after realising my Pi400 and Pi4B are both running the 32-bit OS, and I'm not yet ready to go through the pain of un-breaking the things I do actually need running on them.

[Phil Deakins]

@Profaitchikenz Haiku Pity your RPis are so well used. I use one as a webserver but the other 3 are up for grabs. I'm now using the 4Gig one as my regular computer, but it's not so well entrenched yet that I won't change anything. I've been trying to get a viewer running on a 2Gig one. If I'd succeeded, I would have used it on the 4Gig. If I had the linux knowledge that you and Henri have, I'd certainly continue with it. I might even continue and try to learn how linux works and what's needed. I have the time, and the RPis. I just lack the knowledge

 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

3 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

I use one as a webserver but the other 3 are up for grabs. I'm now using the 4Gig one as my regular computer, but it's not so well entrenched yet that I won't change anything.

As your original stated intention is to reduce your power consumption, there are a couple of other options you might consider.

1. Solar/Lead-acid Battery. My earliest PiB+ runs off a 12Volt old car battery that is charged by a 30Watt solar panel, with a buck-boost PSU to give a steady 5.1Volts from whatever the accumulator drops to, (running any lead-acid battery down below 9Volts isn't a good idea but when you've had to remove it from your car because it's barely keeping up to 10Volts what have you got to lose?). The workbench Pi4B that runs the camera so I don't have to peer intently at spinning cutters with swirling metal swarf runs off a bank of NiMH C-cells charged from another 30Watt solar panel through another buck-boost converter.

2. Solar/Lion battery. To run a tower PC off a solar-charged battery required a bit more current than the Pi, and the cheaper buck-bost converters aren't up to the job. Get a 24Volt/240VAC lorry inverter, and get some of the Makita power-tool batteries with two of the shoe adaptors, run them in pairs to avoid heating a single battery too much.

But, (but but but...)

Unless you're trying to live off-grid, the 300Watts that your typical Tower PC (well, my typical antiquated tower PC) consumes isn't really going to do anything noticeable to your electric bill, unless you're running it 24/7 for a series of bots going round seeing who lives where in SL

Switch the PC back on. If you want to save power, run Radegast on it, turn the monitor off, and use VNC to look into Radegast from your solar/battery powered Pi.

[Phil Deakins]

@Profaitchikenz Haiku Thank you for the suggestions, Prof. The idea of batteries hadn't even entered my head. I just liked the idea of using a little Pi as my main computer. It appeals to me

I am continuing though. I've started the process of installing various linux distros  for ARM, and seeing if any will work with Henri's existing ARM viewer. Installing a distro isn't a quick process but I have the time  Right now I'm installing the RISC OS (5.28). It's the first I'm trying.  

55 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

Unless you're trying to live off-grid, the 300Watts that your typical Tower PC (well, my typical antiquated tower PC) consumes isn't really going to do anything noticeable to your electric bill, unless you're running it 24/7 for a series of bots going round seeing who lives where in SL

It's not the money. It's just a nice idea to me, and I am normally logged in maybe 16 hours a day, albeit afk or not watching the viewer, but no longer using bots

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Phil Deakins

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I just checked back through the Radegast builds I had been running on Linux, the last version that worked under Linux (using mono) was 2.25.134, which loads but won't connect to SL and I believe that was the connectivity issue that hit most of the viewers and needed to fast footwork to get round.

All the subsequent versions I got from Cinder's site have failed to run under Linux with mono 4.6.2, claiming an assembly issue which suggests to me that they have something linked to them that can only be satisfied by dotNet, or by upgrading mono, but I am reluctant to tinker with mono for risk of upsetting my standalone. If Linux had something as easy as Acronis to allow snapshotting and rolling back to an earlier state I might be less worried, but one session with Clonezilla was enough for me. They do all run happily under Windows 7 though.

All that to say that there might be more issues to be solved with running Radegast on a Raspberry pi than just the OpenGl issue.

There is, however, one other path you might consider, and that is using wine on the Raspberry Pi. I have been able to get Alchemy Beta and Singularity to run quite happily under wine after Animat's tip about giving the disk a serial number, but I do recall now that I wasn't able to get Radegast running under wine, though I can't recall exactly what it didn't like (possibly dotNet?).

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

On 9/27/2022 at 7:40 AM, animats said:

If someone has Ubuntu on ARM, and can compile Rust, you might try building my UI mockup program: https://github.com/John-Nagle/ui-mock

I had a look at on on the Pi400, which gave a segmentation fault, I am guessing this is because the Pi400 is a 32-bit system but Ubuntu and most other linux distros expect to be on a 64-bit system?

I had to alter the edition value in cargo.toml from 2021 to 2018

 

ETA the segmentation fault occurred during the build, by the way.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Profaitchikenz Haiku
clarification of error point

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I am guessing this is because the Pi400 is a 32-bit

I could swear, but could be wrong, that earlier in the thread it was confirmed that Pi400 is 64-bit. (Plus I had googled it yesterday.)

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

9 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

could swear, but could be wrong, that earlier in the thread it was confirmed that Pi400 is 64-bit.

The OS is 32-bit, as was in all the Pi's until a few months ago when the experimental 64-bit OS version arrived.

Raspberry Pi OS with desktop

• Release date: September 22nd 2022
• System: 32-bit
• Kernel version: 5.15
• Debian version: 11 (bullseye)
• Size: 894MB

 

The hardware is 64-bit, as was mentioned earlier.

 

• SoC: Broadcom BCM2711C0 quad-core A72 (ARMv8-A) 64-bit @ 1.8GHz

Edited September 29, 2022 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Love Zhaoying]

36 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

38 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

could swear, but could be wrong, that earlier in the thread it was confirmed that Pi400 is 64-bit.

The OS is 32-bit, as was in all the Pi's until a few months ago when the experimental 64-bit OS version arrived.

Fine, fine. But you said:

1 hour ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

this is because the Pi400 is a 32-bit system

I took this to mean, you meant the HARDWARE ("system") is 32-bit.

Sorry! 🙂 

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

There is, however, one other path you might consider, and that is using wine on the Raspberry Pi. I have been able to get Alchemy Beta and Singularity to run quite happily under wine after Animat's tip about giving the disk a serial number,

Now that sounds very promising. I'll look into that tomorrow.

The RISC OS (5.28) that I said I was trying turned out to not be a linux system, so that was hours wasted lol.

Right now I'm installing Ubuntu which is taking hours. It's 86% written atm, but there's the checking to go through after that. I think I'll write the cards on the tower in future. I did that with the Raspberry Pi 64 bit OS, and it was light years quicker. I'm so far into writing Ubuntu, though, that I have to leave it to complete.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

25 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Right now I'm installing Ubuntu

I should have made it clear above, the viewers I was able to run under wine are on linux 32-bit and linux 64-but PCs, I haven't bothered with wine on the Pi400 (yet).

 

[animats]

My ui-mock program will run under Wine 7.0, so Wine is worth a try. I haven't published an executable release, but you can actually cross-compile ui-mock on Linux to Windows and get it to run on Windows or under Wine.

Ah, it's a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware. Never tried that. This is intended for gamer-level machines, although it may run on less. Must be able to run modern Vulkan graphics.

The build process, non cross compiled, is standard: "cargo build --release --examples". If that's crashing, it's a Rust tool chain bug and should be reported.

This is helpful, but may be off-topic for SL. If there's any objection from the moderators, we can move this to issues section for ui-mock on Github, or to Discord. It's relevant, though, to explore multi-platform WGPU-based graphics. Someday, SL will  have to convert to Vulkan/Metal, and exercising this cross-platform solution is useful.

 

[Phil Deakins]

20 minutes ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I should have made it clear above, the viewers I was able to run under wine are on linux 32-bit and linux 64-but PCs, I haven't bothered with wine on the Pi400 (yet).

 

It's fine. I'm installing Ubuntu because Henri has an ARM viewer that runs on something. I'm simply trying various linux distros to see how it does on them.

[Phil Deakins]

12 minutes ago, animats said:

Ah, it's a 32-bit OS on 64-bit hardware.

There is a 64 bit Raspberry Pi OS that I've been trying to get a viewer working with, without success. I'm only looking at 64 bit OSs now.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

To save too much wasted time, I've just tried to get the latest Radegast from Cinder's bitbucket to install under wine without success (annoyingly it's referring me to a log file for the errors that just will not open), so linux looks the best bet.

[Monty Linden]

48 minutes ago, animats said:

If there's any objection from the moderators,

I say carry on here.  This is all interesting and worthy.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

Success on a straight Pi.

Raspberry Pi 400 - 32bit Raspbian OS

Installed Mono from Synaptic (mono core library for CLI 4.5)

Radegast 2.12 downloaded from here (get the zip file and unpack it, don't get the installer)

open a terminal in the unpacked folder and make sure you can see Radegast.exe

mono Radegast.exe connected to SL with some warnings in the console about the mono version (5.18.0)

It got me all the tranche of ownerSay messages from the Funiculars where region idling seems to upset KeyFramedmotion, so, a result

No 3D world view that the later Radegast's offered. but Phil just wants chats and IM so it's got that, plus objects.

ETA

This is the last Latifa version, I then looked to see which might be the earliest Cinders version but I found a statement that it would only support 64-bits and required .NET 4.7.2 or compatible mono to run. I guess I overlooked this last year when I was trying to get Radegast to run

 

Further:

Inventory won't work, I saw the folders and assumed all was OK, but on a second login tried to see what was in a folder and it wouldn't open, and trying to reload the inventory cased a CTD, so it's chat and nearby objects only.

 

For Monty: don't know if this is fixable, after the initial report that the inventory cache file had been read  the console logged a stream of "unrecognized caps exception" with "error getting response stream" at the end of each message, followed by some unhandled exception messages.  Logging back in again did not give the message about a successful read from inventory cache, and the inventory button didn't open a new tab.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Profaitchikenz Haiku
clarification

[Gabriele Graves]

3 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

The OS is 32-bit, as was in all the Pi's until a few months ago when the experimental 64-bit OS version arrived.

Ubuntu flavours for RPi4's have been 64-bit for a very long time now.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

18 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

Ubuntu flavours for RPi4's has been 64-bit for a very long time now.

As with PCs. I think the last 32-bit PC linux I managed to get was 18.04 for my Acer netbook.

In the case of the Raspberry Pi, though, they seemed to make a firm decision to stick with 32-bits for the main line of the OS, which meant that any Raspberry Pi, even the early PiB+, could still be updated to the current OS, you didn't have to throw it away just because it was a few years old.

From what Henri, Coffee and Beq have been saying, the problem with 32-bit programs isn't that they aren't capable of running, it's that many of the support libraries are no longer available in 32-bit versions. Again, this doesn't mean that a 32-bit version of a graphics library is no longer capable of doing the job (what size image would you have to create to exceed the capabilities of a 32-bit integer?), it just means that library maintainers are looking at the hardware trends and concentrating their efforts on the current and forthcoming requirements and simplifying their workload by just doing 64-bit versions. 

Explaining Computers uses various video display and editing software to evaluate all the new Raspberry PI and other SBCs that come out, and so far, he hasn't shown a single instance where a 32-bit Raspberry Pi OS isn't able to perform any of his benchmark tasks.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Profaitchikenz Haiku