Just wondering...

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Designers WILL be needed to design FOR VR, yes. But that's not the same job/role as a product designer who is creating the packaging for a new Kellogg's cereal or a logo designer working with Adidas or a book cover illustrator working with Stephen King. Those jobs aren't going anywhere for a long time (and you can multitask while doing all of that, which was my original point - that it's way harder to multitask in VR).

Ahhh, see I didn't know you were designing for RL applications. I thought you designed for the web.

*And some VR art does transfer to pancake web applications.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Luna Bliss]

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

Ahhh, see I didn't know you were designing for RL applications. I thought you designed for the web.

Disclaimer: I'm only using the design example since that's my actual field (or was, once upon a time, though I'm working on getting back into it).

Designing for web is not any different than designing for print. You use the same software. All that would change is what color mode and resolution you're working in and how you save your files, usually. Everyone in the field, regardless of whether they're printing large format posters or creating graphics for a blog, uses the same types of software (Photoshop and/or Illustrator are the industry standards, or you can use their cheaper/free alternatives, and InDesign for layout and publishing work). Digital artists and illustrators who paint a bit more than design and want to simulate real media might use painting software (Clip Studio Paint is big, Krita is big and free, Corel Painter, etc.). 

Doing any of that stuff in VR doesn't sound fun in the slightest, to me anyway. 3D artists might find VR a bit more exciting than us 2D peeps, tho. But that's an entirely different field.

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Oh god. That looks awful (and made me dizzy in no time). That's just way too much tilting/movement.

Any time you see a VR display remoted to a monitor, you see this movement. What you are seeing is the head movement of the person wearing the goggles as she looks around the virtual environment.

When you ARE the person wearing the goggles, all this movement disappears.

[junique Tigerfish]

2 hours ago, Phil Deakins said:

That all sounds quite normal for everyone - having multiple programmes open and using them frequently - email, web browser, SL, and such. I imagine that VR in SL would work just as well for you as it would for everyone else; i.e. when using it don't do other stuff unless it's really important - like nipping to the loo lol, making or eating dinner, etc.

 

Phil those are some very valid points.Lol.Love your humor.😁

[junique Tigerfish]

Thank you everyone for your very interesting and intelligent posts.There are negatives and positives for sure and I can see some would never want vr.I kind of thought maybe rp could benefit.But when I think of everyone having the same av,maybe with a different shirt color,or skirt or pants,I'm out.The creation of our sl avs is a key element of sl.And I love that we can be whoever we want to  be.Sl is unique and I am excited to see what the future will bring.Wonderful day to all.🙂

[Gabriele Graves]

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

There are VR apps that allow one to manifest their desktop inside VR itself. Last time I checked they were a bit buggy, but I could access everything available on my PC within the VR environment, so I could have multiple windows open dealing with various tasks.

The point of VR is to be immersed to the exclusion of anything else though.  If I am taking all my non-immersive desktop along with me then I am not immersed in any one thing.  Sure I could do it but there is no advantage to me over what I have today in front of me.  I can see the point if I were to be playing a game and solely focused on that game as it would bring a greater sense of being there but I wouldn't get that as soon as I start multitasking.  I would just be in a different room with my desktop without the advantage of being able to easily each for things.

For the same reason, I don't see the point of VR and AR together.  To me they work against each other in terms of concept and what they are setting out to achieve.  You cannot be more immersed and less immersed at the same time.

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Of course the bulky headset was still a problem as I was  blocked off visually from my RL environment, but soon the bulky headsets will be more like the common glasses many wear to correct eyesight, and so there will be less of a disconnect from RL. Switching from full immersion to a more augmented one or none at all will be easy too, via a simple click.

Soon.  😆

It doesn't matter, what I have today is as good as I need it to be.  VR seems like 3D glasses, a solution in search of a problem.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Gabriele Graves

[Rowan Amore]

These types of things are the only ones I see worth using VR for...

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/free-virtual-tours/

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

These types of things are the only ones I see worth using VR for...

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/free-virtual-tours/

VR would be fun for, um, cuddling if someone is far away!

[Ayashe Ninetails]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

VR would be fun for, um, cuddling if someone is far away!

There are no arms (usually). 😂 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

There are no arms (usually). 😂 

Doggies mostly snuggle with necks!

[Arielle Popstar]

4 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

The point of VR is to be immersed to the exclusion of anything else though. 

And that is already a big plus for those who seem to think that being able to multitask is somehow better when in fact it is a detriment:

Quote

In fact, some research suggests that multitasking can actually hamper your productivity by reducing your comprehension, attention, and overall performance. https://www.verywellmind.com/multitasking-2795003

VR is starting to be used for diagnosis and therapy for those with AHDH 

[Quote] Virtual Reality presents a real-life situation to young learners, and potentially offers a more effective alternative to traditional modes of assessment and treatment of ADHD. The sense of immersion in a VR environment is designed to replicate the presence and exposure felt in a real environment. Both researchers and medical practitioners can therefore present the most ecologically relevant stimuli based on a significant and familiar context, allowing them to meticulously document the child’s response.[/Quote] https://education.veative.com/blog/vr-based-approach-adhd

 

[Gabriele Graves]

28 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

And that is already a big plus for those who seem to think that being able to multitask is somehow better when in fact it is a detriment:

There are no absolutes in anything, everybody multitasks to some degree every single day, everybody.  If a person finds they are better off not doing so much multitasking, they can simply do that on their existing setup without VR too!

Quote

In fact, some research suggests that multitasking can actually hamper your productivity by reducing your comprehension, attention, and overall performance. https://www.verywellmind.com/multitasking-2795003

So not definitely and always will, gotcha.  Beware "wellness" articles on the internet!

28 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

VR is starting to be used for diagnosis and therapy for those with AHDH 

[Quote] Virtual Reality presents a real-life situation to young learners, and potentially offers a more effective alternative to traditional modes of assessment and treatment of ADHD. The sense of immersion in a VR environment is designed to replicate the presence and exposure felt in a real environment. Both researchers and medical practitioners can therefore present the most ecologically relevant stimuli based on a significant and familiar context, allowing them to meticulously document the child’s response.[/Quote] https://education.veative.com/blog/vr-based-approach-adhd

Are they going to be diagnosing and giving people with ADHD therapy with VR in Second Life then?  I thought not.  So irrelevant then.

[Arielle Popstar]

45 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

There are no absolutes in anything, everybody multitasks to some degree every single day, everybody.  If a person finds they are better off not doing so much multitasking, they can simply do that on their existing setup without VR too!

No, not everybody. Some are very focused at what they are doing in any particular moment, not allowing anything but the most critical interruptions to sidetrack them. Only those who are easily diverted tend to believe that everyone is like them in that regard.

Quote

So not definitely and always will, gotcha.  Beware "wellness" articles on the internet!

The lawmakers and police in my country are convinced of that and other studies that statistically prove multitasking drivers do not do well with handling calls and texts while operating a motor vehicle. Be prepared for large fines and demerit points if caught doing so. Considering there are now plenty of traffic mishaps and fatalities from people engaging with their cell phones while driving, I think maybe one should pay some attention to "wellness" articles on the internet.

Quote

Are they going to be diagnosing and giving people with ADHD therapy with VR in Second Life then?  I thought not.  So irrelevant then.

Considering the amount of education institutions in both S/L and Opensim, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to do so. In any case it was a response to your assertion that "VR seems like 3D glasses, a solution in search of a problem." and pointing out that this is only one problem where VR is a solution. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

I don't know how this convo suddenly sidetracked into driving (and I'd hope nobody's driving while wearing VR glasses, that's for sure), but multitasking is a skill I learned and had to perfect on the job, as it's quite literally a job requirement in many industries. I couldn't even work as an admin assistant without it. Some places straight up ask in the interview.

Don't even get me started on the "handle your customer's calls while checking in with your field sales team while placing orders while updating orders while asking the logistics team about that special shipment while managing the switchboard and oh yeah get tech support up here to fix that printer and don't forget to keep an eye on your email and we've got a meeting at 10 you should prep for and remember to update me on the status of..." nonsense I had to do on a daily basis. And forget working in a law firm. Oh my god - the chaos.

A zillion tabs and programs open at once? Yeah, that's where I learned how to do that.

[Gabriele Graves]

39 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

No, not everybody. Some are very focused at what they are doing in any particular moment, not allowing anything but the most critical interruptions to sidetrack them. Only those who are easily diverted tend to believe that everyone is like them in that regard.

The lawmakers and police in my country are convinced of that and other studies that statistically prove multitasking drivers do not do well with handling calls and texts while operating a motor vehicle. Be prepared for large fines and demerit points if caught doing so. Considering there are now plenty of traffic mishaps and fatalities from people engaging with their cell phones while driving, I think maybe one should pay some attention to "wellness" articles on the internet.

Considering the amount of education institutions in both S/L and Opensim, it wouldn't be a stretch for them to do so. In any case it was a response to your assertion that "VR seems like 3D glasses, a solution in search of a problem." and pointing out that this is only one problem where VR is a solution. 

https://theconversation.com/whataboutism-what-it-is-and-why-its-such-a-popular-tactic-in-arguments-182911

[Rowan Amore]

40 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I don't know how this convo suddenly sidetracked into driving (and I'd hope nobody's driving while wearing VR glasses, that's for sure), but multitasking is a skill I learned and had to perfect on the job, as it's quite literally a job requirement in many industries. I couldn't even work as an admin assistant without it. Some places straight up ask in the interview.

Don't even get me started on the "handle your customer's calls while checking in with your field sales team while placing orders while updating orders while asking the logistics team about that special shipment while managing the switchboard and oh yeah get tech support up here to fix that printer and don't forget to keep an eye on your email and we've got a meeting at 10 you should prep for and remember to update me on the status of..." nonsense I had to do on a daily basis. And forget working in a law firm. Oh my god - the chaos.

A zillion tabs and programs open at once? Yeah, that's where I learned how to do that.

Do you mean to tell me working at your computer IS NOT the same as driving a car and texting?  Shocking!!

[Silent Mistwalker]

50 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I don't know how this convo suddenly sidetracked into driving (and I'd hope nobody's driving while wearing VR glasses, that's for sure), but multitasking is a skill I learned and had to perfect on the job, as it's quite literally a job requirement in many industries. I couldn't even work as an admin assistant without it. Some places straight up ask in the interview.

Don't even get me started on the "handle your customer's calls while checking in with your field sales team while placing orders while updating orders while asking the logistics team about that special shipment while managing the switchboard and oh yeah get tech support up here to fix that printer and don't forget to keep an eye on your email and we've got a meeting at 10 you should prep for and remember to update me on the status of..." nonsense I had to do on a daily basis. And forget working in a law firm. Oh my god - the chaos.

A zillion tabs and programs open at once? Yeah, that's where I learned how to do that.

That's not chaos... that's insanity. 🤐

[Ayashe Ninetails]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Do you mean to tell me working at your computer IS NOT the same as driving a car and texting?  Shocking!!

Multitasking while driving is one thing I'll absolutely never do! Unless you count dancing at red lights. Dancing I've done...

 

7 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

That's not chaos... that's insanity. 🤐

Oh boyyyy, even that's an understatement! Attorneys can be such a mess. I had one try to sneak a motion covered in BBQ sauce to court because he ate over it and was too impatient to wait for a reprint. Thought he was slick running for the door.

I saw that! Grrrr... you come back here... !! No, it is not fine... 😲😂

At this point, doing ten things at once is baked in.

[Arielle Popstar]

10 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

https://theconversation.com/whataboutism-what-it-is-and-why-its-such-a-popular-tactic-in-arguments-182911

You are confusing whataboutism with an analogy that points out your focus on the word suggests  is not appropriate within the context of the point you were attempting to make.

11 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I don't know how this convo suddenly sidetracked into driving

Well not as bad as sidetracking it into Attorneys and BBQ sauce  

9 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Oh boyyyy, even that's an understatement! Attorneys can be such a mess. I had one try to sneak a motion covered in BBQ sauce to court because he ate over it and was too impatient to wait for a reprint. Thought he was slick running for the door

 

Quote

but multitasking is a skill I learned and had to perfect on the job, as it's quite literally a job requirement in many industries. I couldn't even work as an admin assistant without it. Some places straight up ask in the interview.

Sounds more like an occupational hazard then a skill.

10 Real Risks of Multitasking, to Mind and Body

1. Multitasking is associated with harm to our brains.

2. Multitasking can lead to memory problems.

3. Multitasking can lead to increased distractibility.

4. Multitasking can make us walk into traffic.

5. Multitasking hurts your grades and the grades of those around you.

6. Multitasking can lead to falling and breaking bones.

7. Multitasking can harm your relationship.

8. Multitasking increases chronic stress.

9. Multitasking increases depression and social anxiety.

10. Multitasking makes you less productive and less efficient.

+ My own observation that people who multitask tend to be a little scattered and not follow through thinking more in depth on any of the things they are juggling around at any point because of course, their attention is quickly diverted to the next priority on the list.

Link

In any case the argument that some try to make that VR is not valid because it prevents one from being able to multitask, is not a good justification for shelving further development. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

7 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Sounds more like an occupational hazard then a skill.

You'll have to tell that to every single company I've ever worked for. Encountered the requirement as a temp numerous times when I bounced around between companies. Encountered it as a graphic designer (that's a required skill *especially* working in design - you tend to have to use multiple programs to even create a single design and you often have to work several projects at once to balance deadlines). Encountered it in retail. Needed it even working at my college. Recruiters/hiring managers absolutely do not want people who just zone out on a single task for 8 hours a day. If you can't "juggle multiple tasks" or "be flexible" or "handle multiple responsibilities well" on the job (that's usually how it's phrased in employment ads), good luck staying hired.

But anyhoo, I work at home now, and multitasking is still something I do quite often - so I can't see a benefit to putting on/taking off VR glasses/goggles all the time. That doesn't mean development in VR should stop (I don't think anyone in this thread said that) - it just means some of us personally see no reason to use it in its current form.

Want to make it accessible - Ditch the 1990s box goggles completely and make it more friendly to users who need to work on multiple tasks at once, and maybe more would be open to using it for longer than 10-15 minutes in a day.

[Rowan Amore]

10 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Multitasking while driving is one thing I'll absolutely never do! Unless you count dancing at red lights. Dancing I've done...

Don't forget singing, too!  

At least this guy wasn't driving.  😂

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Don't forget singing, too!  

At least this guy wasn't driving.  😂

 

OMG I love that so much. 🤣

Off-topic real fast, but I remember this viral video that went around years ago of an ambulance driver jamming out on the road, too. Voguing or something. Was hilarious.

[Luna Bliss]

19 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

On 6/20/2022 at 9:09 AM, Luna Bliss said:

There are VR apps that allow one to manifest their desktop inside VR itself. Last time I checked they were a bit buggy, but I could access everything available on my PC within the VR environment, so I could have multiple windows open dealing with various tasks.

The point of VR is to be immersed to the exclusion of anything else though.  If I am taking all my non-immersive desktop along with me then I am not immersed in any one thing.  Sure I could do it but there is no advantage to me over what I have today in front of me.  I can see the point if I were to be playing a game and solely focused on that game as it would bring a greater sense of being there but I wouldn't get that as soon as I start multitasking.  I would just be in a different room with my desktop without the advantage of being able to easily each for things.

I was only responding to your statement describing how you need to be able to access information in a web browser and so VR would not be appropriate for you, and nothing else, as you had not given any more information about why VR would not be good for you at that time. So I mentioned VR Desktop and how we can now access a web browser within VR.
Now you have provided additional information regarding why VR isn't for you, and this is an interesting topic -- immersion and how a VR desktop would be suitable for some people within VR but not others. It might be fun to discuss!

Personally, I would not want to do the tasks I need to accomplish each day using a web browser within the VR environment, but perhaps I might in the future if the app was less buggy and the headset wasn't so clunky and uncomfortable, giving me a headache.

Most people don't even do RL work on their web browser in VR, however. It's more used as a part of their VR home, much as how people have TV's and PC's in their SL home -- to make their virtual home similar to their own RL home that contains a TV & PC, so it's a kind of home setup roleplay.  The PC's in SL aren't nearly as functional as the ones in VR though, but might be fun for some in SL if they were.

In my VR home I can arrange furniture, meet people, watch movies with them, or browse the web on VR Desktop if I need to look up something quick and don't want to disengage from my VR environment.

[Akane Nacht]

40 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

In any case the argument that some try to make that VR is not valid because it prevents one from being able to multitask, is not a good justification for shelving further development. 

Well, I wasn't making that argument. I was describing what my usage habits are, and that if SL were in a full immersion VR format, I would use it less or not at all. I can see some very good use cases for VR to develop into, but the casual use I make of SL isn't one of them. I hope VR development continues and improves though.. I had great fun with Kinect til I kicked the coffee table playing virtual soccer...