Outdated, broken content at Linden Village

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

is not all that long compared to a 20-30 year (potentially  more)anticipated product lifetime

The platforms demographics don't support another 20 or 30 years while we potter about incrementally nudging things forward. We are failing to attract and keep the attention of new and younger players. This is why growth is the mantra that's driving everything the Lab do right now.

We're already well clear of a decade behind in core technologies, places like VRChat have avatar expressibility and interactions that are jaw droppingly good. It's become common for friends to idle in SL while working on their avatar for VRChat, and then they log out to use them, and it's not simply because we don't have VR, it's that we can't hold a candle to what they can do.

We're one competent competitor away from collapse. The first company to push out an adult friendly (as in for adults, not specifically adult content) UGC driven meta platform that's technically forward looking with a primary focus on social entertainment, and SL will crash out in a virtual heart beat. Plurk was the place to be .. right up till it wasn't. SL is no different.

There are more people in my friends list on this 6 year old account who have died than are online right now. I daren't look at my previous.

[Solar Legion]

Here we go again, comparing Apples to Formica ....

[Mollymews]

1 hour ago, Zaphod Kotobide said:

My primary concern is with Linden owned builds that dispense "help" and "information"  and other content that is over a decade out of date. If they do nothing else at all, I think they should either update those where warranted, or remove them if they are no longer relevant or useful.

As an aside, still a fair amount of great historical content around the original 6. Ivory tower is still there in Natoma. But that's residents preserving history, which I think is the way it should be for the most part.

on the first part

i think we can all agree on this and I think LPDW agree as well. The olde avatar helpy orientation path walkthru have been removed by LDPW when they have done WA makeovers, as well as the olde destinations landmark givers to nowhere. I notice that all of these were taken out of Waterhead and looks like there is just a Portal Park board now. Same happened at Violet, Idu, Lewis and Zebrasil as far as I can see

there are still some tho like at Korea1, OIP and at Linden Village temple. I haven't been to every olde WA recently but I think will find that there are not more than about 6 or so WAs with really outdated olde world helpy boards. Which I suppose reflects the progress of LDPW in tidying this part up

 

on the second

Linden do have the antiquities programme in which resident-made stuff is preserved as you probably know. Like Ivory Tower as you mention, SS Galaxy, Governors Mansion, Svarga and Mont Saint Michel to name some. Which I think is a good thing.  Maybe Linden could add an Antiquities tab to Destinations Guide and stick these places on there. I would quite like to see that myself

[Mar Scarmon]

Reading all these posts on these forums, the one thing that occurs to me is that SL fails to use it's greatest resource, us, the old experienced dedicated base of users.  I think a lot of us would be willing to help with issues like updating old areas and working with new visitors.  No one has ever asked me to help or asked for my thoughts or ideas.

[Mollymews]

15 hours ago, Mar Scarmon said:

Reading all these posts on these forums, the one thing that occurs to me is that SL fails to use it's greatest resource, us, the old experienced dedicated base of users.  I think a lot of us would be willing to help with issues like updating old areas and working with new visitors.  No one has ever asked me to help or asked for my thoughts or ideas.

just some info on the vectors available to us to become involved in this

the formalised Community Gateways are often accepting of experienced people to act as greeters and helpy persons

the White Tigers mentors group provide the formal greeter/helper function on the Linden Social Islands including those islands that are restricted to new residents. White Tigers have an application process for experienced persons to take on this role

in addition to these there are quite few informal places inworld set up  by residents as newcomer friendly which are always happy to get experienced people to help out the new people who turn up at these places

then there is the LDPW programme (Moles) which provides paid employment for platform content provision. Linden are currently recruiting to this role

a couple of weeks ago Linden sent out a survey to some several thousands of residents asking for feedback, likes, wants, etc.  Some forum readers got the survey in their rl email inbox, some never, which is how sample sizing goes

the other vector is the formal user group meetings inworld, which Linden staff attend, and too which all residents are invited. A number of forum readers attend the user group meetings on a fairly regular basis

then in terms of feedback on issues and hopeful resolution there is the Jira

Edited February 5, 2022 by Mollymews
in terms

[Lindal Kidd]

20 hours ago, Mollymews said:

the White Tigers mentors group provide the formal greeter/helper function on the Linden Social Islands including those islands that are restricted to new residents. White Tigers have an application process for experienced persons to take on this role

I will violate the "no naming of names" rule in this case. Contact Treacle Darlandes in world if you would like to join WTM and/or become a Guide at Welcome Island.

20 hours ago, Mollymews said:

the other vector is the formal user group meetings inworld, which Linden staff attend, and too which all residents are invited. A number of forum readers attend the user group meetings on a fairly regular basis

Are these advertised anywhere any more?

[Mollymews]

5 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Are these advertised anywhere any more?

the user group meeting schedule is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups

Inara Pey provides the best documented summaries of the meetings I find, here: https://modemworld.me/2022/02/05/2022-ccug-and-tpvd-meetings-week-5-summary/

 

[Chris Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

the user group meeting schedule is here: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:User_Groups

Inara Pey provides the best documented summaries of the meetings I find, here: https://modemworld.me/2022/02/05/2022-ccug-and-tpvd-meetings-week-5-summary/

 

Those meetings should be way more accessible to residents instead of hiding the schedule in a wiki that hardly anyone knows about. Put the schedule in the dashboard.

[Coffee Pancake]

42 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Those meetings should be way more accessible to residents instead of hiding the schedule in a wiki that hardly anyone knows about. Put the schedule in the dashboard.

SL doesn't scale to the numbers that would attract. Round table style Q&A discussions don't scale either.

[Mollymews]

44 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

Those meetings should be way more accessible to residents instead of hiding the schedule in a wiki that hardly anyone knows about. Put the schedule in the dashboard.

anything that makes it easier for people to access information I am supportive of

as Coffee mentions there is the issue of region avatar presence that can limit attendance numbers.  I think that the issue of not everyone being able to attend a inworld user group because region full, is a better problem to have than hardly anyone turning up to the meeting because relatively very few people know about it

the latter problem adds impetus to making group text and voice conversations more performant, scaling up into the 100s of attendees (potentially some low 1000s). This performance problem is easier to solve than is region avatars numbers

[Chris Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

anything that makes it easier for people to access information I am supportive of

as Coffee mentions there is the issue of region avatar presence that can limit attendance numbers.  I think that the issue of not everyone being able to attend a inworld user group because region full, is a better problem to have than hardly anyone turning up to the meeting because relatively very few people know about it

the latter problem adds impetus to making group text and voice conversations more performant, scaling up into the 100s of attendees (potentially some low 1000s). This performance problem is easier to solve than is region avatars numbers

So am I to just assume that LL really only listens to a select few because not everyone interested can fit on a sim?

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Chris Nova said:

So am I to just assume that LL really only listens to a select few because not everyone interested can fit on a sim?

the people who do attend user group meetings are self-selecting, anyone can attend as they choose, there is no Linden-preferred resident attendance list

if thru greater awareness, more than a single region numbers were trying to attend on a regular basis then in the first instance the meetings could be moved to 4 corner regions.  Which would raise the max. attendance level to 400

[Chris Corvinus]

6 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

the people who do attend user group meetings are self-selecting, anyone can attend as they choose, there is no Linden-preferred resident attendance list

if thru greater awareness, more than a single region numbers were trying to attend on a regular basis then in the first instance the meetings could be moved to 4 corner regions.  Which would raise the max. attendance level to 400

I highly doubt theres going to be over 100 interested anyway. But I am willing to bet its mostly the same people who do attend.

[Coffee Pancake]

People tend to get frustrated and give up with these usergroups.

It's very hard to have a meaningful high level discussion about platform specifics, when such conversations invariably end up down in the weeds explaining base parts of the user experience. 

[Mollymews]

1 minute ago, Chris Nova said:

I highly doubt theres going to be over 100 interested anyway. But I am willing to bet its mostly the same people who do attend.

there might be more than a 100 people start coming if Linden put the meeting schedule on the Dashboard as you mention.  Might not either tho as you also say

i don't go myself even tho I am aware of the meetings. Everything I might say at such a meeting, tends to get said in one way or another by somebody else attending. So not go and clog up the venue and just say; yeah that! with appropriate oooo! noises on the voice. I am happy enough information-wise, to read the meeting summaries Inara Pey provides

[Chris Corvinus]

51 minutes ago, Mollymews said:

there might be more than a 100 people start coming if Linden put the meeting schedule on the Dashboard as you mention.  Might not either tho as you also say

i don't go myself even tho I am aware of the meetings. Everything I might say at such a meeting, tends to get said in one way or another by somebody else attending. So not go and clog up the venue and just say; yeah that! with appropriate oooo! noises on the voice. I am happy enough information-wise, to read the meeting summaries Inara Pey provides

What I mean is, having so few people there, and especially the same people, theres no room for different ideas and opinions. I would just use a whole different platform...maybe youtube or a twitch-like service where others can make comments in real time. It shouldn't be limited to Second Life since, you know, its heavily restricted to 100 avatars.

[Quistess Alpha]

7 minutes ago, Chris Nova said:

What I mean is, having so few people there, and especially the same people, theres no room for different ideas and opinions. I would just use a whole different platform...maybe youtube or a twitch-like service where others can make comments in real time. It shouldn't be limited to Second Life since, you know, its heavily restricted to 100 avatars.

You're putting the cart before the horse. once ~100 people start showing up to meetings, then it makes sense to think about alternatives that scale better.

Personally I don't think that scaleable solution is a live comment feed roll, but I don't have any better idea so . . . /o\

[Chris Corvinus]

9 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

You're putting the cart before the horse. once ~100 people start showing up to meetings, then it makes sense to think about alternatives that scale better.

Sure, that makes sense.

[Silent Mistwalker]

I remember a time when there would be over 100 people showing up. That was the whole reason for the 4 corner regions in the first place. Then attendance started dropping off. 

There are solutions. The question is, is LL willing to fork out the bucks it will take to, at least, have a live stream that several thousand people can listen to at once. You know, like people listen to AM/FM radio. And someone to transcribe for those who have hearing loss (or lack of). No reason it can't be published on the LL blog either.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, Chris Nova said:

Sure, that makes sense.

I'm also not sure what you expect to accomplish with 100 different voices and opinions, we have enough trouble getting LL to move in the right direction with just one.

[Arielle Popstar]

19 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I'm also not sure what you expect to accomplish with 100 different voices and opinions, we have enough trouble getting LL to move in the right direction with just one.

Nevermind the fact that they are for the most part just info sessions as to what the Lab is doing and what viewers have to do to fall in line. They will listen to some feedback to problems that are creeping up but I really haven't seen those meetings as being a place to suggest ideas of what could be helpful to further the platform. They seem to pretty much have their minds made up already as to what they are and will be working on regardless of any resident inputs. The meetings are not logged by the Lab and what was said during them, forgotten the moment they leave, often necessitating having to remind them of something that was said even just a few weeks prior.