Kathlen Onyx Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said: Abortion is a needed medical procedure. Making it illegal or prohibitive to obtain just drives people with uteruses into the hands of unlicensed butchers who will leave them septic or dead. The same result of abortion. Edited October 6, 2021 by Sam1 Bellisserian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: The same result of abortion. Fatal complications due to a surgical abortion are very rare, though. Much less than maternal mortality during full-term pregnancies, certainly. Edited October 6, 2021 by Blaise Glendevon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 32 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said: In the US, the best study we have on the subject says that 95% of people who have abortions do not regret them. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/12/abortion-women-do-not-regret-study How many women do you think participated in this study that did regret them? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: How many women do you think participated in this study that did regret them? How many of those people actually regret the decision and how many have been shamed by religious fanatics and conservative community members? Edited October 6, 2021 by Blaise Glendevon 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Corvinus Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 38 minutes ago, Moondira said: Sex is simply a fundamental aspect of romantic relationships. I disagree. Sex is not a requirement for a stable long-lasting romantic relationship. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Corvinus Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 21 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said: How many of those people actually regret the decision and how many have been shamed by religious fanatics and conservative community members? Probably as much as Progressives and far left fanatics have shamed everyone that disagrees with them. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 Just now, Chris Nova said: Probably as much as Progressives and far left fanatics have shamed everyone that disagrees with them. The Uno Reverse defense, I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Corvinus Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Blaise Glendevon said: The Uno Reverse defense, I see. Both sides have their wrongs. Just nobody wants to admit to it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Chris Nova said: Both sides have their wrongs. Just nobody wants to admit to it. Stay on topic. This subject. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Chris Nova said: I disagree. Sex is not a requirement for a stable long-lasting romantic relationship. I didn't say it was a requirement, I said it was a fundamental aspect. And I would never include every single person. But for most people, the physical aspects of a romantic relationship are important and if those needs are not met the relationship fails. You seem to equate sex in a relationship with something bad or superficial, but sex can be deep and meaningful and not superficial at all. But more importantly and central to this discussion, why in this day and age would we need to limit such a pleasurable and important part of a relationship with abstinence when we have a myriad of ways to allow this expression without having 12 children in the family as was the case in days gone by? Edited October 6, 2021 by Moondira 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 6, 2021 Author Share Posted October 6, 2021 5 hours ago, roseelvira said: I will look on line to see what other research has been done on this topic. It would be interesting to see different views and findings from other scientists etc. It's always wise to seek many sources. The effects of abortion have been studied for some time. One thing I've found is that the further I go back (to older studies) the studies say more harm (mental health issues) is done to those who choose abortion compared to more recent studies. This is likely because there are differences between the past and today in how we view sexual matters -- we are much more permissive today and have less of a tendency to see sex as 'bad'. Attitudes toward pre-marital sex, becoming pregnant out of wedlock, and religious views on abortion were much more condemning in the past. When you don't have the support of those around you and people view you as some sort of sinner it can affect your self-esteem, sometimes leading to severe mental health issues. So I think this is the reason women were more negatively affected by choosing abortion in the older studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 6, 2021 Author Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Blaise Glendevon said: How many of those people actually regret the decision and how many have been shamed by religious fanatics and conservative community members? I don't want to make this into a conservative/liberal argument, but I think what you're trying to express is spot on. When society, whatever element within this society, deems a behavior as morally reprehensible then it can easily cause mental health issues in the person being condemned for that behavior (especially when that person is young). And as I said in my previous post, I think this is why we find more older studies saying abortion causes mental health issues in women. I do wonder if those who believe in the "it's harmful to women" notions are speaking from old knowledge at times, never catching up to the current studies. And also, anti-abortion proponents have attempted to use this excuse to achieve their goals (one example is Justice Scalia in, I think, 2008 saying abortion was harmful for women, along with admitting there was no actual evidence for it!). It really all comes down to what @Innula Zenovkasaid earlier in the thread though...does it really matter if some actually do have trouble dealing with an abortion or even regret it? Can we limit freedom and prohibit abortion for all women on these grounds when it would be a great benefit for most people who need the procedure? Not a sound argument in any way. Edited October 6, 2021 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 6, 2021 Author Share Posted October 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: 1 hour ago, Blaise Glendevon said: In the US, the best study we have on the subject says that 95% of people who have abortions do not regret them. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/12/abortion-women-do-not-regret-study How many women do you think participated in this study that did regret them? There are many studies showing that the majority of women do not regret the decision to have an abortion. If you want to claim 'biased sample' then you need to point out exactly what in the studies demonstrates sampling errors -- errors that were not controlled adequately within their methodology. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: How many women do you think participated in this study that did regret them? 5% or 34 out of 667. In the Norwegian study cited earlier, a large percentage of women who experienced symptoms years later, had underlying mental issues to begin with. They were also the ones not in a committed relationship so no support system. That also compared women who had an abortion with women who suffered a miscarriage. One being a choice (that might cause regret later) and an unexpected loss. I really don't think it's a valid comparison. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 6, 2021 Author Share Posted October 6, 2021 A good many of these abortions happen in very young women -- like the 15 to 19 age range, and somewhat more in the 19 to 24 age range. I'm afraid their brains aren't even fully developed (happens around age 25 according to research). Couple this with all the r-a-p-e (over 30,000 pregnancies yearly from it) and we have a real mess on our hands. When I think of Texas now I feel sick. Today I did discover a kind of 'underground railroad' helping these women and made contact with them. If I don't post for awhile just assume I'm in jail 🤪 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Corvinus Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Moondira said: But more importantly and central to this discussion, why in this day and age would we need to limit such a pleasurable and important part of a relationship with abstinence when we have a myriad of ways to allow this expression without having 12 children in the family as was the case in days gone by? Because people like you literally ignore mother nature and science and falsely claim that every single "way to allow this expression" is 100% accurate. Stop it. Its 2021, try promoting some personal responsibility and then maybe we can finally curb teen pregnancy and abortion rates and lower the rates of kids having kids. They should be focusing on their education, not sex. Thats the target demographic of Planned Parenthood and its a business. And we all know what a business is in the business of: Money. Edited October 6, 2021 by Chris Nova 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moondira Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Chris Nova said: Because people like you literally ignore mother nature and science and falsely claim that every single "way to allow this expression" is 100% accurate. Stop it. Its 2021, try promoting some personal responsibility and then maybe we can finally curb teen pregnancy and abortion rates and lower the rates of kids having kids. They should be focusing on their education, not sex. Thats the target demographic of Planned Parenthood and its a business. And we all know what a business is in the business of: Money. Uh, people like me? You don't know anything about me and what I believe, yet you are making loads of assumptions. I'm not talking about kids at all. I'm talking about people in committed relationships and how sexual expression is normally a healthy part of such a relationship. Such a couple should be able to use whatever we have in the modern world to plan their family in the way they see fit. If they can't afford an additional child and contraception fails then abortion should be an option for them and not prevented by the state. The 1st line in your paragraph is so bizarre I can't even imagine what you mean by it. Ignoring mother nature and science? Personal responsibility? Who says I don't advocate this? If you want to talk about kids though, good luck on getting them not to be sexual beings at that time in their life. What does planned parenthood have to do with anything? Edited October 6, 2021 by Moondira Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Corvinus Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Moondira said: Uh, people like me? You don't know anything about me and what I believe, yet you are making loads of assumptions. I'm not talking about kids at all. I'm talking about people in committed relationships and how sexual expression is normally a healthy part of such a relationship. Such a couple should be able to use whatever we have in the modern world to plan their family in the way they see fit. If they can't afford an additional child and contraception fails then abortion should be an option for them and not prevented by the state. The 1st line in your paragraph is so bizarre I can't even imagine what you mean by it. Ignoring mother nature and science? Personal responsibility? Who says I don't advocate this? If you want to talk about kids though, good luck on getting them not to be sexual beings at that time in their life. What does planned parenthood have to do with anything? If I bang my head any harder against this desk, I am going to get a migraine. You can’t be serious. Are you really serious? - Sex is how humans are created. It’s the only way humans are naturally created. How is a fact like that bizarre??? - Personal responsibility….sounds like you advocate for safe sex. - Mine isn’t. She focuses on her school work and has been a top student for years. I’m proud of her. - We are talking about abortions? And Planned Parenthood does abortions and advocates for abortions? Is abortion not the topic??? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Moondira said: Nope don't do it. Abortion will soon be illegal in the good old USA. No way, now that i learned that they also give FREE VIAGRAS to men i am definitely going to migrate there!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alwin Alcott Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Moondira said: Such a couple should be able to use whatever we have in the modern world to plan their family in the way they see fit. If they can't afford an additional child and contraception fails then abortion should be an option for them and not prevented by the state. just chop off his little pinky would be an option to in your statement. Abortion is nót a standard help for familyplanning. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mollymews Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 about teenage pregnancy the teen pregnancy rate in Aotearoa NZ more than halved over the period 2008 to 2018 principal influencers were: 1) Comprehensive and consistent sex and contraception education 2) Easy access and engaging information on sex, contraception, pregnancy, abortion and parenting tailored for teenagers 3) Better access to highly protective contraception 4) Non-stigmatisation of teenagers who have sex 5) Non-stigmatisation of teenagers who get pregnant 6) Mindset shift in care providers of teenagers: Pregnant teenagers are not a problem to be solved. They are people who need help and support statistical outcome 2008: 33% of teenagers reportedly engaged in sex. Teen pregnancy rate: 33 per 1000 2018: 24% of teenagers reportedly engaged in sex. Teen pregnancy rate: 14 per 1000 the full study is here: https://orangatamariki.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/About-us/Research/Latest-research/Teen-Parents-Evidence-Brief/Teen-Parents-Evidence-Brief-2019.pdf anecdotally from my own experiences working with families the subject that makes both teenage girls and boys pause is parenting. What being a parent means for them personally - from a teenager with few responsibiltiies to an adult with a heavy responsibility for another person for at least the next 16 years of your life. You will be 30 something years old by then. And when this is well-communicated to teenagers in sex education classes in school then most quieten down and start giving that some serious thought 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leahndra Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 7 hours ago, roseelvira said: I have another question. It seems that the burden of making sure protection from pregnancy is mostly on the woman. A woman has to decide to take the pill /or get iud/ or some cases tubes blocked. And these forms of protection do come for some with health risks Would it make more sense for men to just get the snip and get the reversal when /if the men/couple want children instead of putting most of the preventive responsibility on the woman? If insurance pays for their Viagra, it should cover the snip. There would be something equally effective as a contraception for Men. Sadly it is somehow placed on ice though it would be a wonderful contraception and would be easily reversible. https://www.parsemus.org/humanhealth/vasalgel/ The URL is years old and it was never brought into the market. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 7 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said: Well, that's a well-thought out argument with many points I've not heard yet. But .. there is nothing to argue about, i am already convinced and 100% in favor of free of charge abortions for all. Everyone should support this. (especially now that i learned they also give free of charge viagra's.to all men) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Chris Nova said: Because people like you literally ignore mother nature and science and falsely claim that every single "way to allow this expression" is 100% accurate. Stop it. Its 2021, try promoting some personal responsibility and then maybe we can finally curb teen pregnancy and abortion rates and lower the rates of kids having kids. They should be focusing on their education, not sex. Thats the target demographic of Planned Parenthood and its a business. And we all know what a business is in the business of: Money. There are ways, evidence-based and scientifically accurate, to reduce teen pregnancy. Those ways involve comprehensive, medically approved, secular, lgbtq+ inclusive sex education at all grade levels and easy or free access to contraception. Abstinence emphasis education is terrible for achieving these goals, and discourages young people from taking precautions when they have sex they are already going to have. But even those things aren't going to stop the need for abortion care. So the question is do you want people with uteruses to have them in a safe and regulated doctor's office or do you want them in sleazy motels where the chance of disfiguring infection and death are high? Are you trying to punish people with uteruses for having a sexuality or are you actually concerned with their health and well-being? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 6, 2021 Share Posted October 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Talon Brown said: Please, it's 2021. They're no longer women, they're "people with uteruses." 🤣 There are lots of people who have uteruses who do not identify as women. There are trans men, there are intersex people, there are non-binary identified folks. No one has time for trans exclusionary rhetoric. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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