Silent Mistwalker Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 41 minutes ago, roseelvira said: The abortion topic has many layers to it and many things to consider. The one issue is regardless if you agree with abortion or not why should your tax money pay for it. NOTE most agree that in the case of the word not allowed to use on the forum, yes tax money for that situation if that caused the pregnancy. I have a friend who is atheist and his thought is "Why should my tax money pay for her birth control or abortion? It was her choice to have relations with that man. No one paid for my ribbed trojans, !!! " Another thing he stated was "What is necessary for one to keep one's body alive? One needs, air, food, water! NO ONE has ever died from NOT having sex. Posted w his permission. Just another layer of thought to this complex situation. Why should my taxes pay for other people's children's educations? All of my children are now adults yet my taxes still go for things that have no benefit for me or mine. I already have to do without just to pay those taxes. Why should I have to keep sacrificing for people who don't even know I exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said: It is what that regret may lead to for those who find no way to deal with the pain. Suicide, alcoholism, drug addiction etc. Are there not laws in the UK that require truth in advertising for products and services? I've not seen any proof that an infected and vaccinated individual would not affect the health of a random person either, which then begs the question as to why you push for mandated vaccines even for those who have a high incidence of being susceptible to a life threatening or altering side effect. All I am seeing from you is "autonomy for me and not for thee". If everyone were vaccinated, passing it on inadvertently wouldn't be as big an issue. 99% of covid hospitalizations are unvaccinated individuals. This puts anyone needing intensive care at risk of not having a bed available. As Luna said, most abortions are performed in clinics and NOT hospital ICUs. As I've also said, I will continue to mask as long as there is a chance of me accidently passing it along. However, a lot of the unvaccinated are obviously NOT masking or the ICUs wouldn't be so full of them. Look, we all know you're hooked on the conspiracies. No amount of actual facts would sway your beliefs. We've all tried. That you're trying desperately to equate the vaccine with abortion rights is just sad. I give up. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: The abortion topic has many layers to it and many things to consider. The one issue is regardless if you agree with abortion or not why should your tax money pay for it. NOTE most agree that in the case of the word not allowed to use on the forum, yes tax money for that situation if that caused the pregnancy. I have a friend who is atheist and his thought is "Why should my tax money pay for her birth control or abortion? It was her choice to have relations with that man. No one paid for my ribbed trojans, !!! " Another thing he stated was "What is necessary for one to keep one's body alive? One needs, air, food, water! NO ONE has ever died from NOT having sex. Posted w his permission. Just another layer of thought to this complex situation. Taxpayer funded abortion has been banned since the Hyde Amendment passed in 1976. The Amendment prohibits federal funds from covering abortion, even for low-income women. The only exception to this rule is when the woman’s life is in danger, or when the pregnancy results from incest or r***. So an ectopic pregnancy–which is always non-viable, and which can be fatal to the woman–would be covered. A pregnancy that endangered a woman’s mental health, or put her at risk of homicide by an abusive partner would not. Public Funding for Abortion | American Civil Liberties Union (aclu.org) Edited October 5, 2021 by Rowan Amore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 hours ago, roseelvira said: The abortion topic has many layers to it and many things to consider. The one issue is regardless if you agree with abortion or not why should your tax money pay for it. NOTE most agree that in the case of the word not allowed to use on the forum, yes tax money for that situation if that caused the pregnancy. I have a friend who is atheist and his thought is "Why should my tax money pay for her birth control or abortion? Wait a minute.. Do they ask for abortions to be "free of charge"? Ahhahahaha no way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naskiff Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rowan Amore said: None of which makes it comparable in any way to getting the vaccine which is my point. I've yet to see a valid argument that one woman getting an abortion can effect the health of any random person she may come in contact with. The goalpost is constantly being moved wherever convenient and assumptions are made about so-called facts. You can't pretend that the vaccine protects the population when so many of the vaccinated have still caught covid. If it reduces the symptoms, it makes you even more likely to spread the virus unknowingly - and that's what you're trying so hard to prevent, right? The spread? That's your moral stance? Whether you get vaccinated or not, you are a danger to those around you. This is what everyone knows, the vaccine doesn't make you immune. Likewise you are a danger when you drive, or when you are allowed to express yourself freely on the internet because you could potentially drive someone towards suicide. When are these breaches against liberty in the name of safety going to end? And again, weren't you guys vehemently pro choice and pro liberty until a moment ago? What happened? Edited October 5, 2021 by Naskiff More brief and to the point 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moles Quartz Mole Posted October 5, 2021 Moles Share Posted October 5, 2021 Please, let's not get sidetracked onto vaccines. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naskiff Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 4 minutes ago, Quartz Mole said: Please, let's not get sidetracked onto vaccines. But that's politics as a whole. This is how the script always goes. Someone on the left says something political and pretend it's not political. Someone on the right calls out their hypocrisy. The one on the left says "it's not fair, this is whataboutism. We're talking about this specific thing now." 3 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moles Quartz Mole Posted October 5, 2021 Moles Share Posted October 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Naskiff said: But that's politics as a whole. This is how the script always goes. Someone on the left says something political and pretend it's not political. Someone on the right calls out their hypocrisy. The one on the left says "it's not fair, this is whataboutism. We're talking about this specific thing now." Nevertheless, this thread is going to stick to the topic, and that isn't open to discussion, I'm afraid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finite Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Nick0678 said: You do realize that when you talk about Malta and the UK you are talking about 2 different countries/nations that have nothing in common, unlike New England and Texas which is the same (U.S.A). Yes and I thought I made that clear. Sorry but you seem to be confused. I never said they were the same country. I used the two in a scenario to explain why comparing US politics and social issues to the UK was like comparing apple to oranges and I even explained why I used Malta and the Uk for said scenario. If you can’t get past one sentence of a post please don’t reply to them. Edited October 5, 2021 by Finite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Nick0678 said: Wait a minute.. Do they ask for abortions to be "free of charge"? Ahhahahaha no way. 1. Why should abortion not be treated as any other surgical procedure? 2. Why don't we Americans have decent comprehensive healthcare like the rest of our developed world peers? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finite Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said: 2. Why don't we Americans have decent comprehensive healthcare like the rest of our developed world peers? Ha that's a whole issue in itself. I had day surgery a few years ago. I pay for insurance through work and I still got hit with a $2500 bill. They charged my insurance 8800 for this day surgery that was literally in and out. Didn't even get a lollipop. For $8800 I feel I should have gotten at least a night stay with breakfast in bed and a mimosa. And this is small potatoes compared to people with more severe issues. Edited October 5, 2021 by Finite 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 4 hours ago, roseelvira said: The abortion topic has many layers to it and many things to consider. The one issue is regardless if you agree with abortion or not why should your tax money pay for it. NOTE most agree that in the case of the word not allowed to use on the forum, yes tax money for that situation if that caused the pregnancy. I have a friend who is atheist and his thought is "Why should my tax money pay for her birth control or abortion? It was her choice to have relations with that man. No one paid for my ribbed trojans, !!! " Another thing he stated was "What is necessary for one to keep one's body alive? One needs, air, food, water! NO ONE has ever died from NOT having sex. Posted w his permission. Just another layer of thought to this complex situation. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Amendment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) I'm sorry @Arielle Popstar and @roseelvirabut your responses to the very well-made study from scholars at the University Of CA San Franciso that I posted earlier only demonstrate you don't understand research so well. Here's some more info about The Turnaway Study: "The Turnaway Study is ANSIRH’s prospective longitudinal study examining the effects of unwanted pregnancy on women’s lives. The major aim of the study is to describe the mental health, physical health, and socioeconomic consequences of receiving an abortion compared to carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term. The main finding of The Turnaway Study is that receiving an abortion does not harm the health and wellbeing of women, but in fact, being denied an abortion results in worse financial, health and family outcomes. Highlighted resources include: Factsheet: The Harms of Denying a Woman a Wanted Abortion A Summary of Publications on The Turnaway Study What is The Turnaway Study? The Turnaway Study: Ten Years, A Thousand Women, and the Consequences of Having - or Being Denied - an Abortion Before the Turnaway Study, there was little quality research on the physical and social consequences of unwanted pregnancy for women. Most of the research that did exist focused on whether abortion causes mental health problems such as depression and post-traumatic stress disorder, or alcohol and drug use. That body of work often used inappropriate comparisons groups—comparing, for example, women who obtain abortions with those who continue their pregnancies to term by choice—and used retrospective designs that depended on women’s reporting of pregnancies and abortions in hindsight. Such comparisons are inherently biased and paint a distorted picture of life following an elective abortion or pregnancy continuation. Key Findings ANSIRH has published more than fifty scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals using data from the Turnaway Study. Our annotated bibliography provides a complete list of publications. Issue briefs on the mental health and socioeconomic consequences of having an abortion versus carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term are also available in Spanish (salud mental and resultados socioeconómicos). The Turnaway Study team of scientists from The University of California San Francisco have also created a lecture series which examine the consequences of receiving versus being denied an abortion in the United States, found here. Findings of the Turnaway Study, the largest study to examine women’s experiences with abortion and unwanted pregnancy in the United States—have also been collected and described in a new book The Turnaway Study: Ten Years, A Thousand Women, and the Consequences of Having - or Being Denied - an Abortion, available now in bookstores and online. A factsheet on the Turnaway Study's findings can also be found here. The study finds that many of the common claims about the detrimental effects on women’s health of having an abortion are not supported by evidence. For example, women who have an abortion are not more likely than those denied the procedure to have depression, anxiety, or suicidal ideation. We find that 95% of women report that having the abortion was the right decision for them over five years after the procedure. The Turnaway Study does find serious consequences of being denied a wanted abortion on women’s health and wellbeing. Women denied a wanted abortion who have to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term have four times greater odds of living below the Federal Poverty Level (FPL)". Edited October 5, 2021 by Luna Bliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 What always struck me as rather ironic was, our health insurance didn't cover my birth control pills yet cover Viagra the moment it came out. How does.that even make sense? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leahndra Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Nick0678 said: Wait a minute.. Do they ask for abortions to be "free of charge"? Ahhahahaha no way. Abortion (possible till the 12th week) costs in Germany between 350 and 700 Euro's (depends if you take an abortion pill or an anaestesist is involved) , except you are a very low earner, a criminal case was involved or it has to be done for health reasons (which happens rarely). I think that is reasonable because otherwise Abortion could be used as a free contraception. Edited October 5, 2021 by Leahndra 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 4 hours ago, roseelvira said: 6 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: I am concerned about the women who feel they did something horribly wrong due to unnecessary prescripts from society, and carry such guilt over what was most likely the best decision they could make. In most churches be it catholic /orthodox/ Christian etc they have counseling for women /couples who have made that choice and there is love and understanding compassion. Hollywood has used the "you will burn in the fires of ,,,,,," for the drama, There is some support, depending on the specific religion and church, but there's also a lot of condemnation in many. If you watched the march I posted (might still be on YouTube) frequently groups of anti-choice protestors shouted a barrage of nasty words to the marchers such as: "You'll burn in helllllllll!" and "Shaaaame shaaame! " and "Murderers!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 Among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from rape each year (in U.S). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/ The new Texas law, set to go into effect in Oklahoma Nov 1st too, allows no exception for pregnancies occurring from rape and incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted October 5, 2021 Author Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) Among adult women an estimated 32,101 pregnancies result from r-a-p-e each year (in U.S). https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8765248/ The new Texas law in effect now and set to go into effect in Oklahoma Nov 1st as well, allows no exception for pregnancies occurring from r-a-p-e and i-n-c-e-s-t. Edited October 5, 2021 by Luna Bliss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 15 minutes ago, Leahndra said: I think that is reasonable because otherwise Abortion could be used as a free contraception. This strikes me as implausible in the extreme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Leahndra said: Abortion (possible till the 12th week) costs in Germany between 350 and 700 Euro's (depends if you take an abortion pill or an anaestesist is involved) , except you are a very low earner, a criminal case was involved or it has to be done for health reasons (which happens rarely). I think that is reasonable because otherwise Abortion could be used as a free contraception. I know. It also costs here and to be honest i never heard of a country in which public healthcare will cover the cost of abortions otherwise people would do it all the time instead of using condoms. Edited October 5, 2021 by Nick0678 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Nick0678 said: I know. It also costs here and to be honest i never heard of a country that public healthcare will cover the cost of abortions otherwise people would do it all the time instead of using condoms. 1. Condoms fail. Birth control of a hormonal kind fails. Even IUDs fail. Even if they are 90+ percent effective under perfect circumstances, user error makes them a bit less bulletproof. Not to mention all the drug interactions that could cause hormonal birth control to fail. In the eventuality of these things, abortion should be a covered procedure like any other. 2. This assumption that people would choose to have an abortion instead of using contraception is bizarre. What evidence is it sourced from? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finite Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Blaise Glendevon said: 2. This assumption that people would choose to have an abortion instead of using contraception is bizarre. What evidence is it sourced from? Some guy on facebook ofc. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Blaise Glendevon said: 1. Condoms fail. Birth control of a hormonal kind fails. Even IUDs fail. Even if they are 90+ percent effective under perfect circumstances, user error makes them a bit less bulletproof. Not to mention all the drug interactions that could cause hormonal birth control to fail. In the eventuality of these things, abortion should be a covered procedure like any other. 2. This assumption that people would choose to have an abortion instead of using contraception is bizarre. What evidence is it sourced from? They never failed me for 43 years, Use a condom and pull out. Otherwise pay the cost for the abortion. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaise Glendevon Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 1 minute ago, Nick0678 said: They never failed me for 43 years, Use a condom and pull out. Otherwise pay the cost for the abortion. Plain and simple. Oh, good. A sample size of one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick0678 Posted October 5, 2021 Share Posted October 5, 2021 Just now, Blaise Glendevon said: Oh, good. A sample size of one. Learn to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.