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4tune

Building on land not owned by you

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I am not sure what to do. A friend of mine owns some land near a big plot of land that appears to be abandoned, although it does not say abandoned, but the owner of the land has not logged on over a year and the surrounding land has been abandoned by the same land owner. Recently someone put a store on this land. I know this person is not the owner of the land or an alt of the owner of the land because my friend put a big oversized prim in the middle of the store to see if it would get returned. Instead the store owner just moved their store up higher. The store is ugly and full of that cheap looking free stuff you can get anywhere in SL. Is there policies about avatars building on land that has appeared to be abandoned when it is not owned by them?

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You have absolutely no idea if this person is a friend or even the alt of the landowner, so for your friend to put a prim on the land to annoy them was wrong.

So long as the landowner is paying the tier fee, it doesn`t matter how long they don`t login & if they want to leave their land as a free sandbox that is also their choice. If they stop paying the tier fee, LL will take the land back, so obviously someone is paying for it.

People building fugly stuff is one of the downsides of Mainland, you can click derender so that you don`t have to look at it or put up a phantom landscaped wall to block it out, but you can`t control what other people do on their land unless they are directly interferring with your land with overhanging prims or griefing tactics.

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The key words in your OP is 'appears to be abandoned'.  If you click on Land, it will tell you if it is abandoned or not.  Your friend was being a nusiance placing a huge prim on the land that they do not own.  I suggest you advise them to remove it.  There may be others who live nearby for which that huge prim would be a nusiance, too.

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I agree with the other about your friend putting a huge prim in the store to annoy the person who owns it; Not the thing to do! I would actually call it borderline griefing.

If you suspect that someone is taking advantage of the fact the land appear to not be in use, why don't you, or your friend, IM the land owner? Chances are they get IMs forwarded to email, can check what was going on and take action if needed.

- Luc -

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Hmmm.  I seem to disagree with most of the other replies here.

First of all, it's important to realize that not paying tier is not an effective trigger for the land being abandoned.  Sometimes it happens.  Sometimes not.  It's a classic halting problem to wait for land to go abandoned after an account has stopped paying anything toward it.

Thus, it is very, very likely that LL is not collecting any tier nor membership fees on that land.  There are huge swaths of Mainland where that's the case.  There are also huge swaths of Mainland that are in fact abandoned, but LL has no incentive to be quick about moving land from the first to the second class of land -- especially as long as Tyche is publishing statistics about the percentage of abandoned Mainland, and as long as there's no great demand for freshly abandoned land automatically put on the market.

Now, there is a slim possibility that this particular parcel is owned by one of the "founding" accounts (or whatever they were called) that got some amount of land (usually 4096, IIRC) in perpetuity.  There's also a slim possibility that the previous owner's credit card or bank account is still paying tier on it, whether they remember it or not.

But it doesn't matter: they set up the land without auto-return--effectively establishing a little sandbox.  There's no reason to believe that they don't want you to fill it up with your own prims.  I'd strongly encourage landscaping the heck out of it, in fact.

If the owner didn't want this, they should have set the land permissions differently.

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I`m not sure that starting a griefing war on a plot of land next to your own is a good idea. The end result is that all the prims will get used up and the plot will look like a worse trash heap than it does now & probably upset even more residents on the sim. The neighbours could also start to retaliate and start griefing you back.

It will all end in tears!!!

If the owners name still appears in search, his account is unlikely to be deliquent. Sending him an IM is the best suggestion I have seen here so far.

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Except that if you're a neighbor, you absolutely want all the prims used up, to keep griefer and random stray prims from accumulating on the parcel.  Hence the urgency of landscaping the thing to your heart's content.  Actually, it would be good to make sure the prims are all phantom, and any not needed for landscaping be full alpha and preferably rezzed at some improbable altitude so they don't have any viewer lag effect.

[EDIT: I agree with sending the owner an IM, but I wouldn't wait around for a reply.  In my experience, this only very rarely works (and I've found it especially unlikely to work for owners of land not set to auto-return).  It would be interesting to see if it happened to work in this case.  We're not allowed to wager on the forums, are we?]

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I am in total agreement with Qie, OP did say that it was a huge land mass so landscaping it in a tasteful way may do the community a favor. Think of a garden with the mall in the middle or an ugly shack surrounded by beautiful meadows. The idea is to used up all the prims so no more ugly prims being created.

but the griefer in me still thinks a giant meatball of fire is a quick solution to get rid of the mall out of sight fast. God forbid if the mall owner starts putting in Lucky Chairs that spits out every 10 Seconds.

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Um, not sure where I said my friend put the prim there to "annoy" the person who is putting a store on land (which I did check and is abandoned). I said she put it there to see if it would get returned as proof the person is building there owned the land. She would like to sell her land, but now that there is a big ugly store there, it will be harder. Also, I went ahead and asked the person who built the store there if it was her "friends" land and was given a point blank answer of "no". She is using it because it wasn't being used. Therefore, according to most of your answers, I guess there is not point in paying Second Life a premium fee since we can just find abandoned land and build. Sounds like a deal!

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PS.

and lol at the meatball, if someone has one I will happily put it there. Also the fact that the person who put the store on the land did not ask my friend to remove the prim is in fact proof that the store owner is not a landower or a landowers friend. The store owner simply moved the store up higher in the sky. I wish she would had thought about the landscaping idea!

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Yes, just like what Qie said. When people stop paying tier. Most of the time LL do nothing to the land, and it just sit there causing trouble to neighbors for years and years and years.

Rez  sculpt mountain to cover the mall. Apply matching terrain texture. Cover it with pretty trees and bushes. Fill the entire prim quota of the land to prevent more junk from littering the land.

If the sqatter still make trouble some way: Make ALT and can rez a freebie house to the land so that the root prim is on the problem parcel, and that the house poke on your land. Then AR the house once a day untill LL arrive. Usually when LL come to clean the parcel, they see that the land been unpaid for years. And LL will finally claim the land back to governor, and wipe all objects from it.

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If there are still prims left why not go ahead and landscaped it now before the mall owner used up all the prims. So the owner did moved it up on the sky? that should solved the ugliness factor.

Giant meatball is easy, create a megasphere and add fire particle script in it. Take any photos you can find from the web of minced meat and add it to the sphere. Voila! your giant meatball on fire.

If you are low on prims already, build a giant Obelisk that is worthy of SL Guiness Book of Record of 'The Tallest Structure in SL Built on an Abandoned Land'. The mall owner might be a creative person and built her mall around the structure but that's when you put your giant meatball back in and you now can even call it A Giant Meatball on A Spit.

.

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Nothing says it will get listened to, but ahead and file an AR and a support ticket. In both simply ask the lindens to set an auto-return.

And I have seen lindens come by and clean up junk that was put there by a non-owner on a lot of an absentee owner. They will do it if they can be sure the junk is not owned by a landowner. And sometimes even if it is if its causing trouble or the owner has been away long enough.

Failing that - your friend might just have to consider moving...

But I would also very quickly fill up the lot with its full allowance of prims. Using blank prims in the sky or just under ground (way out of sight either way), and name them as filler prims to prevent griefing.

 

PS: As Qie said there is a lot of abandoned land that failed to get abandoned. Users left SL and are no longer paying but the land remains in name. Filing support tickets as I describe above had gotten some of it set to abandon, auction, or direct sale to me in past.

And as long as you put filler prims out of sight, you're not griefing anyone. Its a good tactic to use on any land on mainland with open perms and no auto-return. As for actually abandoned land - lindens will set it to auto-return and remove banlines on it if made aware of it.

 

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Kitteh Scientist wrote:

Yes, just like what Qie said. When people stop paying tier. Most of the time LL do nothing to the land, and it just sit there causing trouble to neighbors for years and years and years.

Rez  sculpt mountain to cover the mall. Apply matching terrain texture. Cover it with pretty trees and bushes. Fill the entire prim quota of the land to prevent more junk from littering the land.

If the sqatter still make trouble some way: Make ALT and can rez a freebie house to the land so that the root prim is on the problem parcel, and that the house poke on your land. Then AR the house once a day untill LL arrive. Usually when LL come to clean the parcel, they see that the land been unpaid for years. And LL will finally claim the land back to governor, and wipe all objects from it.

why?

what difference does it make to you or the OP?

at least the "squatter" is doing something positive.

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Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

Hey!  I just got an Email complaining that this person had set up their mall on my open land and now they can't stock the shelves because some griefer type is putting lots of hidden prims on the land.

just kidding.

turn your perms off :smileywink:

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4tune wrote:

I am not sure what to do. A friend of mine owns some land near a big plot of land that appears to be abandoned, although it does not say abandoned, but the owner of the land has not logged on over a year and the surrounding land has been abandoned by the same land owner. Recently someone put a store on this land. I know this person is not the owner of the land or an alt of the owner of the land because my friend put a big oversized prim in the middle of the store to see if it would get returned. Instead the store owner just moved their store up higher. The store is ugly and full of that cheap looking free stuff you can get anywhere in SL. Is there policies about avatars building on land that has appeared to be abandoned when it is not owned by them?

I always AR it. Sorry, I don't see a fuzzy line on this issue. A squatter is a squatter. This can drive down land prices for the surrounding area. Squatters often break other TOS rules too, while on the land, since they are often hardly concerned about the TOS.

It may seem innocent but it's about wanting what you can't pay for instead of waiting.

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The difference you ask. Here is the difference it makes: The sqatter is taking sim resources from the people who pay to use the resources. When you live in a sim you care how much resources you use. But squatters don't care. The ugly mall is also eyesore. Ugly lag might be positive to you, but the OP and i disagree with you.

Offtopic: No one want the freebie mall's. If someone accidentally buy something from such mall. The person will just regret buying it week later when the person realise it is that crappy free crap that you get for free from every freebie hell.

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Thanks guys! Most of you had valid points and a few of you made me laugh. I learned how to make a meatball in SL today also, haha. The store is in the sky now which makes the ugly factor gone, but as some people sort of said, why should it be there for free! I will kindly ask the squatter to move on before filing a "squatter" report.

 

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/me puts out a plea to anyone thinking of abandoning their land: Please, set the Object return to 1 or higher first. 

Right now an abandoned parcel behind (and also beside) one of my parcels is filled with giant Goo cubes, because someone neglected that simple step.

It takes all of ten seconds. Please do it.

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I believe that auto-return is automatically set to zero when land is abandoned.  I don't know if that changed in this newer abandoned-land-goes-straight-to-for-sale system.

Getting rid of junk on abandoned land due to 0 auto-return is trivial.  Just submit a ticket:

What type of problem are you having? – Land & Region

Land & Region – Linden Lab owner Parcel Issues

Where is the Linden-owned Parcel that is having the issue? – Go to land and copy & paste SLURL

SLURL or Parcel Coordinates – paste SLURL again

Please describe the issue. – Abandoned land has junk on it and needs auto-return set.

It should be cleaned up in a few business days.  Well, that's always been my experience.

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4tune wrote:

Thanks guys! Most of you had valid points and a few of you made me laugh. I learned how to make a meatball in SL today also, haha. The store is in the sky now which makes the ugly factor gone, but as some people sort of said, why should it be there for free! I will kindly ask the squatter to move on before filing a "squatter" report.

 

sounds like a case of sour grapes to me.

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Melita Magic wrote:

/me puts out a plea to anyone thinking of abandoning their land: Please, set the Object return to 1 or higher first.

Abandonment flips the toggle to 0 as the post below yours noted. The solution is to set no build and no entry before abandoning.

The other solution is a support ticket. Lindens will come by and set an auto-return if asked to.

 

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Plenty of reasons for a Land Owner to allow other Residents to build on the Land Owner's land; running a Store as a reason is so far down the list that it is barely on the list. Selling in ALL Linden Owned Sandboxes is Prohibited. Build is traditionally Enabled to allow for building, not selling.

In most cases of agreed shared use of Land, a link between those sharing the Land and those owning the Land can be found. Links can be in the form of Membership of a group, listing in Picks or Favorites and or business association. If you cannot find any of the common links, your suspicions may be correct. Contact the Land Owner. 

 

 

 

 

  

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Well, i would say to fight fire with fire.

 

As such, if they are not looking after the land but anyone can build on it......you should go build on it first and put something tasteful there. Need to be pro-active, otherwise more motivated people will beat you to it and this sort of thing happens.

Of course, that wont stop other people building on it, but it may well make them less likely to do so, or might fool them into thinking the land is being maintained, so they look elsewhere.

Otherwise, i agree with the posters above who suggested you file a ticket about it all and ask the lindens to set an auto return.

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