A better viewer than the recent Firestorm? (March21)

[1Arden]

But zooming in any closer, lighting and shadows still off, and objects disappear, never reappearing. Lowering the LOD doesn't always fix it.

Taxi to her location: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Palm Rainbow Island/91/57/26

Edited November 3, 2021 by 1Arden

[Rowan Amore]

Your fps is 44.  Not sure what you expect it to be.

[Rowan Amore]

Lowering LOD will cause some objects to disappear.  Items should be made to be seen at lower LOD but many places do not do that.  They'll even have a notecard telling you to raise your LOD to 4 if you are having trouble seeing their item.  NOT a good thing.  

[KjartanEno]

2 hours ago, 1Arden said:

Well, the changes haven't really helped, to be honest.

Here I am standing at someone's house, advanced lighting off. Seems okay.

A GTX 1060 with advanced lighting OFF and only getting 44 fps? Not sure if it's the location or some million polygon trinket you might be wearing made of a hundred sculpted prims, but something is off. Try a location that's on the mainland where anyone can visit and compare results.

[1Arden]

It's not great elsewhere in places with objects, FPS drops down into single digits with lighting on. I dunno, maybe the graphics card (or its settings) is having a newfound issue, I'll look into it.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

9 minutes ago, 1Arden said:

It's not great elsewhere in places with objects, FPS drops down into single digits with lighting on. I dunno, maybe the graphics card (or its settings) is having a newfound issue, I'll look into it.

I'm not sure if you know this but the Nvidia card driver is up to 496.49 and yours is the 457 version. You might want to update that as well. 

[NiranV Dean]

On 11/2/2021 at 9:21 PM, KjartanEno said:

A GTX 1060 with advanced lighting OFF and only getting 44 fps? Not sure if it's the location or some million polygon trinket you might be wearing made of a hundred sculpted prims, but something is off. Try a location that's on the mainland where anyone can visit and compare results.

Sounds normal, i'd get ~45 FPS there too, although i'm not sure without ALM, probably with ALM unless that place is as bad as i imagine it is from the picture.

On 11/3/2021 at 1:38 AM, 1Arden said:

It's not great elsewhere in places with objects, FPS drops down into single digits with lighting on. I dunno, maybe the graphics card (or its settings) is having a newfound issue, I'll look into it.

Most likely your settings, your graphics card (unless it is somehow throttling itself into idle) is fine, i got a GTX 1060 too and i'm getting around 40-70 FPS with ALM on depending on the place. This is however not thanks to the GPU, this is solely my Ryzen carrying this, with my old FX i had only half the framerate of what i have now.

Also objects disappearing and never reappearing is a setting issue... lemme see... which one was it...i don't remember right now but i know there was a setting that made objects disappear when looking away and prevented them from reappearing... turn on Object Cache just in case, in BD at least turning off Object Cache causes all kinds of weirdness, from being unable to pay objects, to inability to right click items, select things and even see the edit/move arrows when editing items, not to mention objects break and other weird shenanigans. The option needs a relog to be effective. The issues were so crazy that i had to remove this option because people kept unticking it and flooding me with weird and bizarre issues.

On 11/3/2021 at 1:49 AM, Drake1 Nightfire said:

I'm not sure if you know this but the Nvidia card driver is up to 496.49 and yours is the 457 version. You might want to update that as well. 

I'd highly recommend not updating. Up-to-date drivers are known to cause issues in SL pretty frequently. Exception here is usually AMD GPU's as they need the later versions to get rid of the inverted color issue. I'm running on 460.79 myself, if anything i'd not recommend updating past this version. NVidia's driver quality has been... lacking lately.

 

-------------------

Coming back to the attachment visibility issue. I've been digging into that quite a bit. It's quite interesting to see that rigged attachments are completely immune against not only the hide-head-attachment logic but also against the entire needs-head-render logic altogether. It seems solely controlled by the avatar is visible in first person logic... i'm getting to the bottom of this...

EDIT:

And this concludes my search.

Rigged attachments will no longer be rendered in Mouselook, given they are separate and attached to any of the attachment slots that are invisible in Mouselook. Whole body attachments obviously will not work, sadly i cannot fix this.

Edited November 14, 2021 by NiranV Dean

[KjartanEno]

On 11/14/2021 at 8:05 AM, NiranV Dean said:

Sounds normal, i'd get ~45 FPS there too, although i'm not sure without ALM, probably with ALM unless that place is as bad as i imagine it is from the picture.

I have an RX 580, which would compare poorly on Windows but runs OpenGL fairly well on Linux. My Ryzen 5 3600 no doubt helps, and it was a very noticeable improvement over my previous Ryzen 3 1300x.

That's 48 fps on the mainland with ALM on. I did turn ALM off momentarily and the framerate went over 100 fps. (Custom day cycle is being used. Had I set time to midday, results would likely have been higher overall.)

[KjartanEno]

I visited the location mentioned before. My result in Alchemy isn't too far off what I could get in Firestorm or any other viewer. With ALM off I got 103 fps. I tried to frame the image as closely as possible to the one uploaded by @1Arden using the region/parcel environment.

[NiranV Dean]

I tried something experimental. Something that VRChat does too.

Here's the "fixed" version.

https://gfycat.com/passionatecolorlessgalago

Here the unfixed as comparison.

https://gfycat.com/remotegraciouskingsnake

 

What i'm doing here is essentially scaling down all head bones to 0 while in Mouselook. This is quite simple and effectively gets rid of the head because even while rigged it is now so small that its clipped away by the camera's natural near clipping plane.

This solution currently is obviously destructive to Mouselook head shadows. I'll have a look if that can be fixed somehow.

Edited November 15, 2021 by NiranV Dean

[Whirly Fizzle]

On 11/2/2021 at 5:29 PM, 1Arden said:

But zooming in any closer, lighting and shadows still off, and objects disappear, never reappearing. Lowering the LOD doesn't always fix it.

Taxi to her location: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Palm Rainbow Island/91/57/26

It looks like this bug, well technically not a bug actually: BUG-9439 - When certain objects are rezzed, they cause other nearby objects (including default prims) to render invisible

The problem is caused by having too many dense meshes placed close together.

[Beq Janus]

On 11/15/2021 at 5:14 PM, NiranV Dean said:

What i'm doing here is essentially scaling down all head bones to 0 while in Mouselook. This is quite simple and effectively gets rid of the head because even while rigged it is now so small that its clipped away by the camera's natural near clipping plane.

This solution currently is obviously destructive to Mouselook head shadows. I'll have a look if that can be fixed somehow.

Hi Niran,

This is good. I know a bunch of people who would love to see this.

I presume that this will only work if the attachment is properly attached to the head or rigged to the head bones? A small price to pay I imagine. (ideally creators would attach things properly in the first place!)

For rigged mesh attachments it is easy to deal with the shadows and the non-shadows as they are separate calls in the drawpool, for non-rigged you will probably be best served checking the sShadowPass variable and acting accordingly. That might prove a bit trickier in practice. not too bad though I would hope.

 

[NiranV Dean]

3 hours ago, Beq Janus said:

Hi Niran,

This is good. I know a bunch of people who would love to see this.

I presume that this will only work if the attachment is properly attached to the head or rigged to the head bones? A small price to pay I imagine. (ideally creators would attach things properly in the first place!)

For rigged mesh attachments it is easy to deal with the shadows and the non-shadows as they are separate calls in the drawpool, for non-rigged you will probably be best served checking the sShadowPass variable and acting accordingly. That might prove a bit trickier in practice. not too bad though I would hope.

 

This is a 2 part fix.

I fixed rigged attachments attached to the head still being rendered for normal view, which they shouldn't just like any other attachment attached to any head slots. The other part being rigged attachments that are not attached to any head slots but are clearly supposed to be the head or part of it (e.g rigged to the head). Scaling down the bones seems to have no adverse (at least visible) effect on normal attached objects, none that i could observe (i'd assume though they might be a little offset which will most likely only be visible on furry heads anyway, eyes and ears come to mind).

The first part automatically works with shadows and does as you'd expect. The scaling however is visible in both shadow rendering and normal view, i'm not sure if i can scale the bones down in just the normal view without affecting the shadow render. I'd have to take a look at that.

[Lucia Nightfire]

On 11/15/2021 at 11:14 AM, NiranV Dean said:

I tried something experimental. Something that VRChat does too.

Here's the "fixed" version.

https://gfycat.com/passionatecolorlessgalago

Here the unfixed as comparison.

https://gfycat.com/remotegraciouskingsnake

 

What i'm doing here is essentially scaling down all head bones to 0 while in Mouselook. This is quite simple and effectively gets rid of the head because even while rigged it is now so small that its clipped away by the camera's natural near clipping plane.

This solution currently is obviously destructive to Mouselook head shadows. I'll have a look if that can be fixed somehow.

What I, and I imagine the rest of the "adult community" would like to know is, does this finally make mouselook while using pg/adult furniture with another user a far better experience?

The biggest problem I've encountered in this scenario is my rigged head and/or neck and/or hair getting in the way of my field of vision while sitting.

There are other cases that mostly depend on the position your body is in where you might not want to see the upper and/or lower body minus the arms/hands, but that would not be something your change should cater to. That would go back to my claim that we need the ability for finer/intricate control depending on app/use case.

If you're aware of what "ghosting" the body or limbs is in animated adult video/eroge, you'll know what I mean.

[NiranV Dean]

13 hours ago, Lucia Nightfire said:

What I, and I imagine the rest of the "adult community" would like to know is, does this finally make mouselook while using pg/adult furniture with another user a far better experience?

The biggest problem I've encountered in this scenario is my rigged head and/or neck and/or hair getting in the way of my field of vision while sitting.

There are other cases that mostly depend on the position your body is in where you might not want to see the upper and/or lower body minus the arms/hands, but that would not be something your change should cater to. That would go back to my claim that we need the ability for finer/intricate control depending on app/use case.

If you're aware of what "ghosting" the body or limbs is in animated adult video/eroge, you'll know what I mean.

I don't know if it will make Mouselook poseballing a more enjoyable experience, in theory it should as it is a straight improvement to how it works. It cannot fix anything pose related though, clipping your view into your body in certain poses is unfixable.

Ghosting in Second Life? Hah. With the infinite alpha sorting issues SL can't figure out i'd rather not. Before we could even think about ghosting body parts we'd need a way to use rigged alpha blending without occlusion behind it.

Edited November 21, 2021 by NiranV Dean