FairreLilette Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: I get the feeling that NO MATTER who i put someone would have found fault. Yes, and that is partly what the internet does to EVERYTHING, probably just ask anyone who is famous. We could be here "googling" conflicting stories until infinity with the internet no matter what browser really and about anything. But, the press does this time and time again to propagandize us. I won't get into a "google" debate here because I know it would be useless and endless. Love God and people; that's all that's really asked of us. Because if the internet is twisting stuff and everything, then the same has happened to the Bible as well by men to manipulate us, and I believe that these writings are not entirely on the up and up and are corrupt. My father was a psychologist and a Social Worker, having his Masters in Social Work, and I'm sure he found in his work that having to conform to the heterosexual model and live a lie was hurting and harming others. I'm also sure he talked about it with my Mom decades before my cousin was an adult. It took great courage for my Mom to go against what the Roman Catholic church taught about same sex relationships. There are liberal American Catholics, however they are not in communion with the Roman Catholic church any longer as far as I know. To be Roman Catholic, one must conform with what the Pope says. My Mom became a liberal catholic. I'm not sure many people even know what that is. But, she was free and reformed from the traditions among other things. Edited March 17, 2021 by FairreLilette 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 giving out hugs and candy to all ,,,,, i saw a cute dinosaur stuffed toy with a green leprechaun hat . Questions back on topic how long for the evolving mans brain to go from uggg to sewing skins from dinosaurs or animals ,,, or did man when he evolved have that mental ability ,,and in any way are we evolved from rabbits??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: 5 hours ago, TDD123 said: Meet the devil's advocate ( pro bono ) during said Canonization : I did not know who he was but after reading he had dislike for GOD. HE WAS NOT OR EVER THE DEVILS ADVOCATE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH OR DID ANY PRO BONO WORK FOR THE CHURCH ,,,,, THE CLIP IS HIS OPINION,,,,,,, .SO THAT IS VERY MISLEADING TITLE He was indeed invited by the Vatican to her beautification to give his opinion: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-debate-over-sainthood/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: I can say my belief in GOD and Jesus has always brought me through so many horrible unspeakable times. I am not a scholar or expert, just a simple person trying to do the right thing always w love ,kindness , respect and understanding Note at no time have i ever told anyone to believe in my beliefs. Yes my belief in God or Love has gotten me through the bad times too. Nobody is trying to take your belief in God & Jesus away, or questioning your right to read the Bible and apply it to your own life. What is primarily being questioned in this thread is whether it is okay to replace Science (discoveries in evolutionary Science, in this case) with anyone's interpretation of any religious text, and insist that it be given the same weight or greater where matters of Science are being evaluated. Religious Fundamentalists who believed in Creationism as an explanation for how human life emerged managed to prevent evolution from being taught in schools for 40 years (up until the 60's) until this was deemed by the supreme court as unconstitutional due to its religious nature. Now, under the guise of Intelligent Design (pretending no religious motivation) they continue to push their agenda. The above is what Nalatas & Arielle are championing in this thread -- a denial of the Science and a substitution of Christian Fundamentalist beliefs for the explanation of human origins. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 18 hours ago, FairreLilette said: 19 hours ago, Luna Bliss said: Well you know lots of feminist recovery groups don't like the higher power stuff.. I've never heard of that. But, what also really helped me and not by myself, I had substance abuse counsellors in several hospital stays after nearly poisoning myself to death with alcohol and went into a coma or a blackout, was them telling me I have a disease and explaining things to me. 12-Step, imo, needs to focus on the disease. I'm glad you were able to overcome that. Yes some feminists don't like the hierarchical structure of religion inherent in 12-stop programs, surrendering to a higher power when they were forced to surrender to men and society and subvert their own wishes for so long. So they like to focus on empowerment or strengthening the self. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Love is truth. Biblical Fundamentalism creates an idol out of a book. Focus instead on Love. We can't know truth when this is still going on: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2019/09/schools-still-dont-teach-evolution/598312/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McGregor Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: negative opinions from that guy. I dare you to read it. In fine bookstores everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 22 minutes ago, TDD123 said: I dare you to read it. In fine bookstores everywhere. It's interesting how Hitchen's himself relates the propaganda by the press to create this shiny woman. In short, press fabricated saint though not in those exact words. I don't like nor trust the press much myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 19 hours ago, Aquila Kytori said: 6000 years ago? 4000 BC was the beginning of the Bronze age. A period when the first cities were starting to form. Perhaps you forgot to add a few zeros ? Approximately 600,000,000 yeas ago the Cambrian Explosion. Ooooops 😵 ...... Edited to correct the attribution of the quote. See @Rowan Amore post below. The Cambrian explosion was an older creation event in Earth's history. The fossil record shows there were several extinctions and then subsequent rapid replenishing events with no credible theory as to how an explosion of new life forms came into being. The last significant extinction event happened 11,000-13,000 years ago and 6000 or so years ago, new life started up again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Addressing the link from tttd 123 In fact i have read the link before you posted it . And there are many reports good and bad articles written about Mother Teresa. I am being very respectful and in gentle voice saying to you " i do not have to believe that the link tttd123 posted. Nor do i believe the negative written about Mother Teresa . My choice . My choice .My free will.... The person the one who wrote very negative things in that article about Mother Teresa was very biased and seemed it was not just a dislike of any one who believes in GOD but a hate for GOD and anyone who believes .as his writings come across, Example reading his opinion when a certain person of good moral character was very ill and his response was a very cruel unkind statement hoping for that person to not recover and no it was not about the last president.. Just as you say when some one puts up a link and you say O that is not believable because it is Christian publication or from a certain publisher because you feel they are biased so you give little credence to what they write or say as it is not an objective un biased view. Same applies here. And just because someone says it ,,,i have free will to chose to believe and agree or ignore , disagree or toss it into the they are trying to control and influence waste garbage bin { been doing that a lot lately} regardless of who the writer or speaker or person is. Note Wikipedia is not the go to place for all truth. It is a a point of reference / anyone can write something so no i do not depend on that for exact. Nor do i believe anything on the web /internet is 100 percent truth / and sadly the media and news are very biased . I cannot tell you the number of times i had to go to the all the networks and see the different spins. To my surprise and sadness the major news stations networks and all of the major networks proved to be very biased one sided and trying to lead sway peoples opinions and decision note at times doing a cut and chopping out footage be it an interview or news or happening at the moment so you are not seeing the total footage of the situation . they chop/ cut /edit just to suit their agenda .. {. NOTE i have a relative who works at one of the major stations } Then i turn on the stations that people say are fake news and see what that station footage is and news and the full clips and then go to the bbc channel and see their report and then go to the Catholic and Christian news watch their news report and at the end i make my own decision. !!! When a reporter or anchor is very disrespectful of or attacks verbally any one they are interviewing be it pre recorded or live ,,,the i really cannot believe this reporter or anchor kicks in and that anchor reporter loses credibility. I have see that on the major stations and the snarks remarks. CNN or MSNBC I really do not trust or believe !!! Felt that way a number of years ago .I grew up when news reporting was getting the facts the correct facts, the truth , and presenting them plain and simple !!! Not putting your opinion / personal agenda spin along with what you are reporting. Looks like those days are long gone. So is there any trust in the news on any station ,,,, nope ,,,, NOTE- i had hoped we could have returned to topic but sadly it has not. Again i respect you and your position . And i am sure no matter what one posts the individual will find their own answers to their search . Just as the reader will make their own decisions . 5 Responses to the Ridiculous Rancor of Some Toward Mother Teresa (aleteia.org) Edited March 18, 2021 by roseelvira clarify and spellcheck and grammar checker still not working sorry i tried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: Religious Fundamentalists who believed in Creationism as an explanation for how human life emerged managed to prevent evolution from being taught in schools for 40 years (up until the 60's) until this was deemed by the supreme court as unconstitutional due to its religious nature. Now, under the guise of Intelligent Design (pretending no religious motivation) they continue to push their agenda. The above is what Nalatas & Arielle are championing in this thread -- a denial of the Science and a substitution of Christian Fundamentalist beliefs for the explanation of human origins. No, it is what you dragged the thread into being about. Initially had you read the opening post and the supplied links, you would have realized it was about some challenges to aspects of the traditional evolutionary theory that had nothing to do with God or creation. Edited March 17, 2021 by Arielle Popstar toned down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 giving out hugs and candy to all ,,,,, i saw a cute dinosaur stuffed toy with a green leprechaun hat . Questions back on topic how long for the evolving mans brain to go from uggg to sewing skins from dinosaurs or animals ,,, or did man when he evolved have that mental ability ,,and in any way are we evolved from rabbits??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: giving out hugs and candy to all ,,,,, i saw a cute dinosaur stuffed toy with a green leprechaun hat . I want one, I'm half Irish and half dinosaur! 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: Questions back on topic how long for the evolving mans brain to go from uggg to sewing skins from dinosaurs or animals ,,, or did man when he evolved have that mental ability ,,and in any way are we evolved from rabbits??? I'll surely get some of this wrong, but I'll start with whether we've descended from rabbits. Curiously, the answer is... yes! Here's a chart that was constructed from genomic analysis of primates (the paper's topic of interest) and species from three other "orders" (one of the branch points in the evolutionary tree). The further left you go, the farther back in time you go. Humans are the "Homo" entry in the second line of the second group of names, in purple. If you trace backwards to the left, you'll see that we share a common ancestor with Pan (Chimps) and Gorillas at H. Step back again and those three groups share a common ancestor with Pongo (Orangutans) at G. Those four groups comprise the Hominids. Step back again (it's not marked, but between G and C, and we share a common ancestor with the Hylobates (Gibbons) Step back again to C, and we share a common ancestor with Cercopithecines (old world monkeys: monkeys, baboons, macaques). Step back to B and we share a common ancestor with the New World Monkeys: Cebidae, Atelidae and Pithecidae Step back to again and we share a common ancestor with Tarsiidae (Tarsids). Those cute li'll buggers are the only member of their branch. Step back again and we share a common ancestor with Lemurs and their branches of decendants. Step back again and we share a common ancestor with the Loris and their branches. That comprises all of the primates. Step back again and we share a common ancestor with Dermoptera, little things that look like flying squirrels. Step back again and we share a common ancestor with Scandentia (shrews). That common ancestor is the furthest left line in the chart, Lagomorpha Lagomorphs are... wait for it... RABBITS!!! Our path branched from rabbits around 90 million years ago. That chart doesn't show what else Lagomorpha branched out into, but you might expect a similar looking branch structure, ending in all kinds of well known mammals, including modern bunnies. Many people will look at a rabbit, then look at us, and say "There's no way we evolved from that." That's 100% true and 100% missing the truth. We not descend from modern rabbits. We descended from the same ancestor as modern rabbits, both of us taking very different evolutionary paths over the last 90 million years. Yet, if we could find the exact creature that produced that split between our paths, it would look much more like a rabbit than we do. We got lucky. Timetree.org is a very cool website that will trace back through the evolutionary record (compiled from many sources), to locate the most likely branch point between any two species. Type "human" and "rabbit" into the Taxon 1 and Taxon 2 boxes and you'll see that we probably shared a common ancestor around 90 million years ago. Type in "human" and "chimpanzee" into the Taxon 1 and Taxon 2 boxes and you'll get 6.7 million years. Human/Cat = 96 million years Human/Western fence lizard = 312 million years Human/Australian jumper ant = 797 million years You get the idea. If you chose a species name that's not specific enough, you'll get another set of Taxon boxes with suggested specific species to the right. Just go with that and click "Show Time" to get the data. Now, for your last question, if you follow that branch diagram from left to right, ending at "Homo", you'll see 90 million years of our evolution. According to Timetree, we went one way (walking upright) and chimpanzees went another (walking on all fours) about 6.7 million years ago. That might be a good time to mark the starting point for humanity, though it's only been about 200,000 since the first recognizably human human first appeared. Along the way, we evolved bigger and more capable brains, eventually arriving at our current state of affairs. Going from "ugg to sewing skins" actually involved two kinds of evolution. Once we evolved the ability to communicate efficiently through spoken language, we became able to pass extensive knowledge to each other, and to preserve knowledge through folk lore for future generations and thereby consciously evolve our social structures. Since then, even the sky hasn't been our limit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: hat common ancestor is the furthest left line in the chart, Lagomorpha Lagomorphs are... wait for it... RABBITS!!! Our path branched from rabbits around 90 million years ago. That chart doesn't show what else Lagomorpha branched out into, but you might expect a similar looking branch structure, ending in all kinds of well known mammals, including modern bunnies. Many people will look at a rabbit, then look at us, and say "There's no way we evolved from that." That's 100% true and 100% missing the truth. We not descend from modern rabbits. We descended from the same ancestor as modern rabbits, both of us taking very different evolutionary paths over the last 90 million years. Yet, if we could find the exact creature that produced that split between our paths, it would look much more like a rabbit than we do. So there is truth then to the old saying of mating or ..........like rabbits ,,,,,, 😜😉 Edited March 18, 2021 by roseelvira spell grammar check is broken ,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, roseelvira said: 5 Responses to the Ridiculous Rancor of Some Toward Mother Teresa (aleteia.org) Many of the criticisms in that article are valid. As an atheist, I do measure Mother Theresa differently than would a Catholic. I also measure the Catholic Church differently. Her canonization is consistent with her role within the Church. The mention of Theresa and the other nuns living in the same abject poverty as the afflicted they cared for is true. Curiously, in my own local church, the nuns lived lives as spartan as any parishioner, but the priests lived in relative luxury. That gave me a very bad feeling about how the church used the money it collected. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted McGregor Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 So it's 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just now, roseelvira said: So there is truth then to the old saying of mating or ..........like rabbits ,,,,,, 😜😉 Now I'm remembering college and why I was so glad to be a commuter student who went home every evening. ;-). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arielle Popstar Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Well there is also the theory that humans are a hybridization of chimps and pigs though I prefer the bunny one if I had to pick an ancestor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 after watching the series on Netflix ad vitam we may in the future be jellyfish partly ,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 31 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I'll surely get some of this wrong, but I'll start with whether we've descended from rabbits. Curiously, the answer is... yes! Now I know how Hasenpfeffer made it into a Bugs Bunny cartoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) What is this LUCA thing> Last Universal Common Ancestor? I've never heard of that but have sort of although not by that name. LUCA - what all current life on Earth has, a last universal common ancestor. Edited March 17, 2021 by FairreLilette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairreLilette Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 1 hour ago, roseelvira said: when some one puts up a link and you say o that is not believable because it is Christian publication or from a certain publisher because you feel they are biased etc same applies here ,,, I agree with you, Rose. How many publications whether right/left, conservative, liberal could have agendas? How are we possibly to know, out of all the publications in the world, who has agendas and who does not? We cannot. So, while I remain a skeptic about the press in general I cannot say I distrust all the publications in the world. As far as my Mom, she was a real saint to me. She took in people who needed serious help and never turned anyone down. Often times it was family friends who most of the time needed surgery. My Mom's home was open to anyone really though. That might sound unsafe to some today and maybe it is, but it was perhaps more innocent in my Mom's day and these were long-time family friends who really did need surgery and had surgery. She housed them at times when medical bills would have been just too much and/or they had no one there to help them as most surgeries are barely a day in the hospital. My Mom did so much for others just because of the way she was. Did I witness a saint? Well, to be a saint my Mom would have needed miracles. Did I ever see my Mom do miracles? No. But, to me, still a saint. I don't know how else to describe this amazing woman. One who didn't judge is the best I can do. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roseelvira Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, FairreLilette said: As far as my Mom, she was a real saint to me. She took in people who needed serious help and never turned anyone down. Often times it was family friends who most of the time needed surgery. My Mom's home was open to anyone really though. That might sound unsafe to some today and maybe it is, but it was perhaps more innocent in my Mom's day and these were long-time family friends who really did need surgery and had surgery. She housed them at times when medical bills would have been just too much and/or they had no one there to help them as most surgeries are barely a day in the hospital. My Mom did so much for others just because of the way she was. Did I witness a saint? Well, to be a saint my Mom would have needed miracles. Did I ever see my Mom do miracles? No. But, to me, still a saint. I don't know how else to describe this amazing woman. One who didn't judge is the best I can do. You are sooooo blessed. Your mom was the miracle !!!! Of unconditional love!!! And yes she is a saint!!! Thank you for posting this , this made my heart sing and thank you ,,, hugs and love 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 16 hours ago, FairreLilette said: 17 hours ago, roseelvira said: when some one puts up a link and you say o that is not believable because it is Christian publication or from a certain publisher because you feel they are biased etc same applies here ,,, I agree with you, Rose. How many publications whether right/left, conservative, liberal could have agendas? How are we possibly to know, out of all the publications in the world, who has agendas and who does not? We cannot. So, while I remain a skeptic about the press in general I cannot say I distrust all the publications in the world. In evaluating the merits of Mother Teresa I think we need to go beyond determining whether this source or that source is biased, as most of the pros or cons regarding her case are simply IDEAS that we can choose to agree or disagree with when considering that idea on our own. For example, one of the cons Hitchens puts forth is that it's wrong for colonizers of a country to attempt to help others in a country they conquered (India in the case of Mother Teresa). This is an idea anybody can research and draw their own conclusion from. Personally, I don't take a 'black and white approach' and do believe we can help but we must be careful not to impose to the point of being more destructive than actually helping. Case in point, the way we "helped" Native Americans in this country is shameful -- forcing the children away from their families and making them adopt White standards. Yet there are SOME programs today that Whites can participate in that do help Natives. Another con Hitchens levels against Mother Teresa is in blaming her for the poverty she claims to want to alleviate. I have to agree that much of the poverty (especially in less-developed countries, and especially Catholic ones) is caused by mothers having too many children due to the view that contraceptives and abortions are bad. I fault the stance of the Catholic church on this one, and while her religious beliefs on contraceptives may have increased poverty to a degree she also dedicated her life to helping the poor and those in their last stages of life. So I cannot label her 100% wrong and totally trash her as Hitchens does. The Catholic church is very patriarchal, elevating men above women on many levels. Should I think less of Mother Teresa for participating in such a system? Not really -- my general stance is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when evaluating most anything, and I admire the Catholics fighting for equal rights within their chosen religion. The most annoying attitude I see in Hitchens' dislike of Mother Teresa is his insistence that all people involved in religions are simply trying to selfishly increase their own power, a kind of "do-gooder" mentality, converting others to their religion only for selfish reasons. He seems to believe all people in general attempting to do good are actually, deep down inside, selfish slobs trying to push their views on others. While the above dynamic (wanting others to be just like us for our own perceived safety in numbers as opposed to wanting the other to know 'love') is indeed something to be cautious of in all religions, I don't see it with Mother Teresa. I really think she believed in love, in helping others and in spreading love, despite some of the trappings inherent in the religion she belonged to. Do I believe she worked miracles, like something supernatural? Probably not, but then someone who dedicated her life to helping others is actually a kind of miracle in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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