The Darwin Spin Off

[Luna Bliss]

15 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

I share all those thoughts and feelings about being connected, a part of some grand and glorious plan. They're very pleasant thoughts to have. If I have them because such thinking is evolutionarily advantageous, so be it. It's even more awesome to me to ponder the seeming improbability of it all than to take a shortcut to some kind of design centered around us.

We are part of the Universe -- how could we not be? It is only the thinking, dissecting mind that imagines we are separate from the whole. Sometimes, we let go of 'dissecting mind' and know this, albeit briefly, and the letting go of control lends a sense of euphoria to the experience. 
No need to minimize the importance of the experience by labeling it as simply a pleasant feeling and not worthy of what our 'dissecting mind' determines as actual reality according to its logic.
No need, either, to minimize the experience by supposing it's only an evolutionary advantageous sensation, labeled as such because our 'dissecting mind' finds no purpose or logic in it.

It is a great and glorious "plan", but outside the purview of human logic, and so I prefer the word "experience" to describe it. The human mind can't conceive of infinity.

[FairreLilette]

The Earth does have a design though in that it is an ecosystem meant to recycle that which is organic but mankind seems to insist upon not understanding this and repeating the same mistakes over and over.  It's the man-made chemicals the Earth does not know what to do with nor can it turn much of man-made waste (every day trash or radioactive waste) into compost.  

I think we do need to think about going "green" again and finding ways to do that.  

In another thread about what do you think the future holds, one poster said pretty much going back to organic or green living.  I think he may be right.

Edited March 27, 2021 by FairreLilette

[Ceka Cianci]

10 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

We are part of the Universe -- how could we not be? It is only the thinking, dissecting mind that imagines we are separate from the whole. Sometimes, we let go of 'dissecting mind' and know this, albeit briefly, and the letting go of control lends a sense of euphoria to the experience. 
No need to minimize the importance of the experience by labeling it as simply a pleasant feeling and not worthy of what our 'dissecting mind' determines as actual reality according to its logic.
No need, either, to minimize the experience by supposing it's only an evolutionary advantageous sensation, labeled as such because our 'dissecting mind' finds no purpose or logic in it.

It is a great and glorious "plan", but outside the purview of human logic, and so I prefer the word "experience" to describe it. The human mind can't conceive of infinity.

I'm gonna try this, one last time. The guy in the video used this as an example..

Someone dreams about  a relative, then wakes up and finds out that that relative passed away that day.. Now this person thinks some phenomenon has happened to them..

When in reality in a world of 7 billion people, with like  I don't know, 160,000 that die each day in the world.. It probably happens more than we think, since  our relatives or people we know end up in our dreams, and it's a good chance that more than one person has someone in their dream die the next day..

In other words, what may seem like a phenomenon to someone might not be such a phenomenon in the bigger picture..

All he said was, yea sure, I'd like to believe that kind of phenomenon stuff, but I also like the idea that I am part of a much bigger machine..

In other words, yea, It'd be kinda cool if that phenomenon stuff were really happening, But I like the idea that I'm a part of something much larger than  that.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

33 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

We are part of the Universe -- how could we not be? It is only the thinking, dissecting mind that imagines we are separate from the whole. Sometimes, we let go of 'dissecting mind' and know this, albeit briefly, and the letting go of control lends a sense of euphoria to the experience. 
No need to minimize the importance of the experience by labeling it as simply a pleasant feeling and not worthy of what our 'dissecting mind' determines as actual reality according to its logic.
No need, either, to minimize the experience by supposing it's only an evolutionary advantageous sensation, labeled as such because our 'dissecting mind' finds no purpose or logic in it.

It is a great and glorious "plan", but outside the purview of human logic, and so I prefer the word "experience" to describe it. The human mind can't conceive of infinity.

Expand  Expand  

I'm gonna try this, one last time. The guy in the video used this as an example..

Someone dreams about  a relative, then wakes up and finds out that that relative passed away that day.. Now this person thinks some phenomenon has happened to them..

When in reality in a world of 7 billion people, with like  I don't know, 160,000 that die each day in the world.. It probably happens more than we think, since  our relatives or people we know end up in our dreams, and it's a good chance that more than one person has someone in their dream die the next day..

In other words, what may seem like a phenomenon to someone might not be such a phenomenon in the bigger picture..

All he said was, yea sure, I'd like to believe that kind of phenomenon stuff, but I also like the idea that I am part of a much bigger machine..

In other words, yea, It'd be kinda cool if that phenomenon stuff were really happening, But I like the idea that I'm a part of something much larger than  that.

I didn't watch the video.

I'm simply referring to the experience we have, as has been discussed on the forum before, especially by Maddy, where we have a sense we are part of the Universe or something much larger than ourselves.

[Snugs McMasters]

39 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

No need to minimize the importance of the experience by labeling it as simply a pleasant feeling and not worthy of what our 'dissecting mind' determines as actual reality according to its logic.
No need, either, to minimize the experience by supposing it's only an evolutionary advantageous sensation, labeled as such because our 'dissecting mind' finds no purpose or logic in it.

I quite agree there's no need to minimize. So why did you just do it?

I'm reminded of this...

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Snugs McMasters

[Ceka Cianci]

23 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The Earth does have a design though in that it is an ecosystem meant to recycle that which is organic but mankind seems to insist upon not understanding this and repeating the same mistakes over and over.  It's the man-made chemicals the Earth does not know what to do with nor can it turn much of man-made waste (every day trash or radioactive waste) into compost.  

I think we do need to think about going "green" again and finding ways to do that.  

In another thread about what do you think the future holds, one poster said pretty much going back to organic or green living.  I think he may be right.

The earth knows what to do with anything we can make..

Earth: Hello Lava?

Lava : Yes earth?

Earth: Lava, Can you do me a quick favor and scoop up this junk over here, then cover it up for awhile until I move some plates around to where we can spit it out of one of those vents into outer space?

Lava: Sure thing Earth, Consider it done..

Earth: oh one more thing Lava..

Lava: Yes Earth?

Earth: How much longer before yellowstone is ready?

Lava: Two weeks

Earth: You said that two weeks ago!!

 

hehehe

Edited March 27, 2021 by Ceka Cianci

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

1 minute ago, FairreLilette said:

It's the man-made chemicals the Earth does not know what to do with

Well, to be fair, the earth doesn't know anything, nor can it care.

It's entirely our problem (and that of creatures similar in biology to ours, that can be similarly traumatized by man-made disasters).

Planet Earth is a teensy tiny ball of semi-liquid rock and iron with a flimsy little crust with cracks everywhere and insignificant tiny minute microscopic stuff on top. One gamma ray burst from within the local spiral arm in our galaxy and all that microscopic stuff on top is fried.

The best we can do is give purpose to our lives while we're living it, so we're not reminded every day of the apparent meaninglessness implied by this otherwise accurate description of our world. Some like to draw solace, hope and inspiration from ancient scriptures and revel at a prospect of  possible hereafter. Others like to spend their short lives on Earth to explore it and the universe and try to understand by thinking really hard about it and involve math and perform experiments that 99.9% of the tax payers does not understand. And yet again others watch Netflix, or shop for giant baby clothes at the latest sales event in Second Life.

[Snugs McMasters]

13 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm gonna try this, one last time. The guy in the video used this as an example..

Someone dreams about  a relative, then wakes up and finds out that that relative passed away that day.. Now this person thinks some phenomenon has happened to them..

When in reality in a world of 7 billion people, with like  I don't know, 160,000 that die each day in the world.. It probably happens more than we think, since  our relatives or people we know end up in our dreams, and it's a good chance that more than one person has someone in their dream die the next day..

In other words, what may seem like a phenomenon to someone might not be such a phenomenon in the bigger picture..

All he said was, yea sure, I'd like to believe that kind of phenomenon stuff, but I also like the idea that I am part of a much bigger machine..

In other words, yea, It'd be kinda cool if that phenomenon stuff were really happening, But I like the idea that I'm a part of something much larger than  that.

Richard Feynman told a story of suddenly getting a strong feeling that his grandmother had died.

Just then, the phone rang.

He answered it.

It was a classmate, calling about something completely unrelated.

As an anecdote, that's enough to fully cancel one human's correct feeling that their grandmother had died. I've tried to keep track of the strong feelings I've had that something had, or would, happen. I've been wrong so much that I can, to my own satisfaction, cancel out every such correct anecdote I've ever heard from others.

I also like to believe certain things. That doesn't make them true. I love laying on the grass on warm summer evenings, looking up in into the starry night and wondering if there's someone on a lawn way out there, looking back at me. I can't tell which is more awesome, the thought that might actually be happening, or the thought that there's an evolutionary advantage to imagining certain things that aren't true. Whatever the truth is, so be it.

There is no shortage of awe for me. It's the same for you, Ceka.

;-).

[FairreLilette]

8 minutes ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

Well, to be fair, the earth doesn't know anything, nor can it care.

Well, the matter itself doesn't have emotions like it's going to start crying or something.  That isn't what I was saying.  I said the Earth has a design, it's ecosystem, which mankind doesn't seem to care about or IOW insists upon going against this design and into it's own desires, usually for quick profit.  Just take the Earth's name, The Earth, earth meaning soil.  Life here exists because of soil and those organic things going back to the soil - compost is it's nourishment, and that is it's basic system.  And, I think the Earth does care by cause and effect and by reacting when this ecosystem goes out of whack.  

 

[Snugs McMasters]

33 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

The Earth does have a design though in that it is an ecosystem meant to recycle that which is organic but mankind seems to insist upon not understanding this and repeating the same mistakes over and over.  It's the man-made chemicals the Earth does not know what to do with nor can it turn much of man-made waste (every day trash or radioactive waste) into compost.  

I think we do need to think about going "green" again and finding ways to do that.  

In another thread about what do you think the future holds, one poster said pretty much going back to organic or green living.  I think he may be right.

I don't see any evidence of intention on the part of Earth itself, so I question your use of "meant". I hope that human intent can eventually figure out how to support us indefinitely. Absent in many arguments about green living is that there might be a maximum sustainable population. For all of human history, we've enjoyed the promise of population growth. Our children will take care of us.

The greatest challenge facing us might well be the economic, social, and psychological impact of giving up that promise.

[FairreLilette]

4 minutes ago, Snugs McMasters said:

Absent in many arguments about green living is that there might be a maximum sustainable population.

Not mine, however.  I think we've exceeded what the Earth can handle.   I am usually a pollyann-ish kind of person, but not in this matter.  

[Arduenn Schwartzman]

38 minutes ago, FairreLilette said:

I think we've exceeded what the Earth can handle.

I think, with a bit of R&D and motivation, we'd be able to technologically sustain lots and lots more humans on this planet. But similarly, with a bit of motivation, we should be able to keep the numbers down a bit, which sounds way more efficient to me. The only way to convince people to put to action into salvaging humanity is decent education to give everyone confidence that people can do extraordinary things. (I guess putting people on the moon wasn't convincing enough.)

What will definitely not help is to believe that this planet is lost and we'll just drag along until kingdom come.

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm gonna try this, one last time. The guy in the video used this as an example..

Someone dreams about  a relative, then wakes up and finds out that that relative passed away that day.. Now this person thinks some phenomenon has happened to them..

When in reality in a world of 7 billion people, with like  I don't know, 160,000 that die each day in the world.. It probably happens more than we think, since  our relatives or people we know end up in our dreams, and it's a good chance that more than one person has someone in their dream die the next day..

In other words, what may seem like a phenomenon to someone might not be such a phenomenon in the bigger picture..

All he said was, yea sure, I'd like to believe that kind of phenomenon stuff, but I also like the idea that I am part of a much bigger machine..

In other words, yea, It'd be kinda cool if that phenomenon stuff were really happening, But I like the idea that I'm a part of something much larger than  that.

My view is that synchronicities happen all the time but a lot of people either have too many other voices going on in their heads so it is drowned out, pay it no mind, or do and realize there is such a thing. It is through experience that one starts being able to discern when it is the right voice. The other day for example I was leaving my empty lot when the thought popped up I should phone my cousin the Real Estate agent and start the proceedings for getting it listed. I took a quick look on my phone to see if I had her number but when I didn't find it figured I would see if my Mother had it when I returned to her house. When I stepped in the door at my Mothers, she was on the phone to my Cousins mother who was asking my Mother for my number because my Cousin wanted to phone me as she had some clients looking for the type of  property I had but had been sitting on for some years. I saw that as validation that it was the right time finally to list it as I had been undecided for quite a long time over it even though my Cousin had chatted to me about it a few years before. It was the timing of my thought and hers on not only the day but actual time that clinched it for me that it was a sign from God/Universe that the time was right. Others may see it as nothing more then coincidental or luck but I will act on it regardless. The still small voice is easy to miss at times but when it comes with somewhat random verifications like that, it has a much higher chance of being right.

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Snugs McMasters said:

I don't see any evidence of intention on the part of Earth itself, so I question your use of "meant". I hope that human intent can eventually figure out how to support us indefinitely. Absent in many arguments about green living is that there might be a maximum sustainable population. For all of human history, we've enjoyed the promise of population growth. Our children will take care of us.

The greatest challenge facing us might well be the economic, social, and psychological impact of giving up that promise.

Could you at least remember to be me when you spout off?

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, FairreLilette said:

Well, the matter itself doesn't have emotions like it's going to start crying or something.  That isn't what I was saying.  I said the Earth has a design, it's ecosystem, which mankind doesn't seem to care about or IOW insists upon going against this design and into it's own desires, usually for quick profit.  Just take the Earth's name, The Earth, earth meaning soil.  Life here exists because of soil and those organic things going back to the soil - compost is it's nourishment, and that is it's basic system.  And, I think the Earth does care by cause and effect and by reacting when this ecosystem goes out of whack.  

I don't share Carlin's nihilism, but I do appreciate his perspective.

I recently posted a chart comparing the biomass of various classes of Earth's living organisms. Here's another view...

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/humans-make-110000th-earths-biomass-180969141/

Should humans foul the environment so badly that mammals and fish can't survive, we'll have eliminated less than 0.25% of the world's living biomass. This will be devastating for us, but otherwise of little to no consequence.

A lot of our efforts at self preservation are misguided, but I'm still hopeful.

[Luna Bliss]

47 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

synchronicities.....

The still small voice is easy to miss at times but when it comes with somewhat random verifications like that, it has a much higher chance of being right.

In order to believe in synchronicities one has to believe that information can travel in extraordinary ways beyond the usual physical ways we're familiar with (in person, phone, pc, others). I do believe, like you, that information can travel in ways we can't measure. Perhaps it will be measurable in the future.
In any case, I believe we can transcend the physical and 'tune-in' to information, sometimes with conscious attention but more commonly the information is transmitted spontaneously. I don't like to use the words 'God' or 'another dimension' or 'spiritual dimension' to describe these typically unknown levels of existence, as these are such loaded terms with too many interpretation, and, I don't see any agency (any deliberate action from some unknown force/being communicating these 'messages') -- I see it more as another level of reality that our human body and brain usually shuts us off from but that we can sometimes access.

An example for me came from my intuitive sense that something was very wrong with a small part of the city I was living in at the time. I actually feared this area and did not know why, and I never wanted to go near it though I had to as it was on the way to several places I needed to visit. I had not feared any area in a city before, and was perplexed as to why this part of town frightened me, as there was nothing bad-looking or unusual about it. The area just totally gave me the creeps.
As it ended up, a serial killer actually lived there, one who had eluded capture and terrorized the city for decades. I believe I tuned into the 'bad vibes' on the street where he lived, although I would never say I'm 100% convinced I detected something. I have no other explanation really.

[Love Zhaoying]

36 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Could you at least remember to be me when you spout off?

Great, now I gotta follow Snugs too, to not miss a nugget?

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Snugs McMasters said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

No need to minimize the importance of the experience by labeling it as simply a pleasant feeling and not worthy of what our 'dissecting mind' determines as actual reality according to its logic.
No need, either, to minimize the experience by supposing it's only an evolutionary advantageous sensation, labeled as such because our 'dissecting mind' finds no purpose or logic in it.

Expand  

I quite agree there's no need to minimize. So why did you just do it?

I'm reminded of this...

 

Because 'dissecting mind' is so arrogant -- 'man' thinks they know far more than they actually do and can't comprehend they are to the larger Universe as a single cell is to a human.  As much as I love Science, the 'clever ape' has gotten us into one heap of a mess as it divorced from nature and thought it could conquer the world through clever manipulations. Get ready for mass die-off and suffering as the temperature climbs.

The connection has nothing to do with aesthetics. The connection I'm speaking of would have enabled us to cooperate with the world around us instead of imagining we could conquer it. 'Dissecting mind' feels no connection other than how it can manipulate physical elements of the world and create a model of the Universe, confusing the map with the territory.

[FairreLilette]

1 hour ago, Arduenn Schwartzman said:

I think, with a bit of R&D and motivation, we'd be able to technologically sustain lots and lots more humans on this planet.

I agree, but with or without a sustainable diet at least for those countries now in famine; i.e. one like Yemen?  

Covid is unfortunately causing paradoxical problems for going green right now too; i.e. PPE and sterile issue needs from germs.  

However, in my going green statement, I'm not sure we could do it 100% but after COVID PPE needs reside a bit, at least begin heading in that direction because I believe there is a greater intelligence here that is not being utilized.  I'm not sure what the next leap is though; however, medicine could perhaps do away with some of it's needle needs after learning how to read for COVID without a blood test.  

https://blog.ted.com/7-ways-scientists-are-attempting-to-move-beyond-needles/

[Ceka Cianci]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

My view is that synchronicities happen all the time but a lot of people either have too many other voices going on in their heads so it is drowned out, pay it no mind, or do and realize there is such a thing. It is through experience that one starts being able to discern when it is the right voice. The other day for example I was leaving my empty lot when the thought popped up I should phone my cousin the Real Estate agent and start the proceedings for getting it listed. I took a quick look on my phone to see if I had her number but when I didn't find it figured I would see if my Mother had it when I returned to her house. When I stepped in the door at my Mothers, she was on the phone to my Cousins mother who was asking my Mother for my number because my Cousin wanted to phone me as she had some clients looking for the type of  property I had but had been sitting on for some years. I saw that as validation that it was the right time finally to list it as I had been undecided for quite a long time over it even though my Cousin had chatted to me about it a few years before. It was the timing of my thought and hers on not only the day but actual time that clinched it for me that it was a sign from God/Universe that the time was right. Others may see it as nothing more then coincidental or luck but I will act on it regardless. The still small voice is easy to miss at times but when it comes with somewhat random verifications like that, it has a much higher chance of being right.

I used to think I had a sixth sense for movies I hadn't seen in awhile or songs I hadn't heard in awhile that would pop in my head, then a day or two or three or maybe even a week later they would come on..

Hey I just had this in my head the other day, now here it is! \o/

I just chalk it up to, coincidences happen.

The reason is, I was bound to have one of those many songs or many movies that I hadn't heard or seen in awhile, show up..

With all the channels for music and movies and everything else.. I haven't had that happen in a long long time.

Now it's, Hey I haven't heard this in awhile or seen this in awhile.

 

I don't believe in psychic powers, super powers, ghosts, demons, magic,super natural or miracles.

The only voices in my head are recordings my memory has made or mine while talking to myself..

I've been on the same page as my family a lot of times, because we relate to a lot of the same things..

Me and my husband just the other day were thinking about refinancing on one of our properties.. The next day my father mentioned, we should refinance that same property since interest rates are so low..

I didn't read any more into it than, Yea we were just talking about that..

If I were to investigate on why my father would say that to me the day after.. I'm willing to bet either my sister or my husband had mentioned something to my father prior..

One thing I really notice is, Aunts, Uncles and Parents seem to always be on the lookout for their Nephews Nieces and Children..

Hey your Aunt just mentioned about seeing this the other day and thought you two would be interested.. No dad we already bought one.

Things like that just don't amaze me anymore I guess..

I'm not trying to take anything away from people that things like that do amaze them.. I'm just saying, they don't amaze me much anymore..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Snugs McMasters]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Great, now I gotta follow Snugs too, to not miss a nugget?

Nugget? As in those things I find strewn along my forest paths and under the shrubs that have been chewed down to nubs over the winter?

Follow at your own risk, Love.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Snugs McMasters said:

Nugget? As in those things I find strewn along my forest paths and under the shrubs that have been chewed down to nubs over the winter?

Follow at your own risk, Love.

I dub your wisdom pearls, "Snuggets". 

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

3 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

synchronicities.....

The still small voice is easy to miss at times but when it comes with somewhat random verifications like that, it has a much higher chance of being right.

In order to believe in synchronicities one has to believe that information can travel in extraordinary ways beyond the usual physical ways we're familiar with (in person, phone, pc, others). I do believe, like you, that information can travel in ways we can't measure. Perhaps it will be measurable in the future.
In any case, I believe we can transcend the physical and 'tune-in' to information, sometimes with conscious attention but more commonly the information is transmitted spontaneously. I don't like to use the words 'God' or 'another dimension' or 'spiritual dimension' to describe these typically unknown levels of existence, as these are such loaded terms with too many interpretation, and, I don't see any agency (any deliberate action from some unknown force/being communicating these 'messages') -- I see it more as another level of reality that our human body and brain usually shuts us off from but that we can sometimes access.

An example for me came from my intuitive sense that something was very wrong with a small part of the city I was living in at the time. I actually feared this area and did not know why, and I never wanted to go near it though I had to as it was on the way to several places I needed to visit. I had not feared any area in a city before, and was perplexed as to why this part of town frightened me, as there was nothing bad-looking or unusual about it. The area just totally gave me the creeps.
As it ended up, a serial killer actually lived there, one who had eluded capture and terrorized the city for decades. I believe I tuned into the 'bad vibes' on the street where he lived, although I would never say I'm 100% convinced I detected something. I have no other explanation really.

In order to believe in synchronicities, you must also either discount, or be ignorant of, the well established propensity for humans to find connections where none exist, and to wildly misestimate probabilities and risks. I see that in myself. Neither of you has avoided it.

As for your tuning into "vibes", what percentage of the murders in that city do you imagine were caused by that serial killer over the decades? Is it possible there were far more threatening "vibes" that you completely missed?

Your vibe detecting ability is subject to the same biases as for people who refuse to fly in aircraft because they sense the inherent danger in doing so. You never hear stories of people who had sudden changes of plan that prevented them from boarding flights that completed without incident. That's happened to me a half dozen times over my life, canceling virtually all the stories I've heard of people who's change of plan "saved their lives".The nature of aircraft crashes (lots of people dying at once) makes them highly memorable yet, per passenger mile (or total lifetime risk), flying is far safer than driving, riding a bicycle or walking, or being in bed. It's the same for serial murderers, who are highly memorably yet kill approximately nobody in comparison to the totality of violent deaths across the world.

As an example of tuning into vibes, yours is among the most easily explained as bias.

I suggest reading Daniel Kahneman's "Thinking Fast and Slow" to see the myriad ways in which you can fool yourself into thinking you "know" far more than you really do.

[Rat Luv]

3 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

As it ended up, a serial killer actually lived there, one who had eluded capture and terrorized the city for decades. I believe I tuned into the 'bad vibes' on the street where he lived, although I would never say I'm 100% convinced I detected something. I have no other explanation really.

Oh I am  a great believer in gut instinct. I don't think it's psychic power but there is definitely something we have that alerts to us to danger. 

[Love Zhaoying]

15 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

Oh I am  a great believer in gut instinct. I don't think it's psychic power but there is definitely something we have that alerts to us to danger. 

It's the Midichlorians..