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4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:
8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Biblical Literalism, especially when combined with political parties, stunts people's lives and even kills them. This is becoming more and more pronounced in the U.S. Get out from under your rock and do a little research.

So I will call it out when I see it.

Take your red herring fish about me not being able to cope with people different from me and stuff it you know where.

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One has to wonder how much of the bible literalism is in reaction to the socialist/communist agenda that is becoming so pronounced in the US, which is stunting people's lives, cancelling them when they don't toe the lefty line and increasingly encroaching on freedoms.

Blaming Socialism and 'lefty stuff' now?  Man, you are the Queen of Red Herrings:

 

red herring definition.jpg

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Hiya folks. Science is not about truth. Scientists do not claim to hold the truth. Science is merely the art of not BS-sing yourself or others, while trying to understand things and make predictions b

The term "genocide" was coined in 1944. Historians researching wars prior to then will never find the word "genocide" in accounts of those times, so it takes more careful analysis of the historical re

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3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Recovery groups don't necessarily equate to a relationship with God.

Straws?

Success on a day to day basis in a 12 Step group is rare without a relationship with a G/god of your understanding.

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1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:
5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Recovery groups don't necessarily equate to a relationship with God.

Straws?

Success on a day to day basis in a 12 Step group is rare without a relationship with a G/god of your understanding.

Well you know lots of feminist recovery groups don't like the higher power stuff..

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2 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

saying this very respectfully  saying people  is  as i read it saying all who tying truth to the bible  how they perceive it  they will abuse others ,,,,, not so,

 but  the phrasing  reads anyone who believes  sooner or later      will be abusive  and say the bible said its ok and that is not  true ,,,,   and that is worrisome .  Mother Teresa was far from abusive  so is she included in that statement,,,, just trying to clarify

I am aware of some of the stories and saw that post  but not every  one who believes or read would do that . 

on a lighter note if one calls the psychic hotline and they are told do  this and that /////are they not as dangerous being they could also abuse due to the interpretation that was told to them    or reading the horoscope ????

Grrr, Rose. While you're quite correct that following the Bible does not invariably lead to abusing others, I have a problem with Mother Theresa as an example of that. From what I've read over several decades, she might well be a better example for Luna.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mother-teresa-was-no-saint_b_9470988

As for horoscopes, I loved them in The Onion, which stopped updating them last November. Now I'll have to make up my own.

Here's today's:

Though you are half Irish, you'll decline your extended family's invitation to their annual St. Patrick's Day celebration because of your stubborn dislike of vomit.

Geez, these things can be eerily accurate.

;-).

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21 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Success on a day to day basis in a 12 Step group is rare without a relationship with a G/god of your understanding.

I don't know how rare it is but I did it.  One day turned into a few days, then weeks, then months, then years...til more than a decade had passed.  I did it because I realized I loved living life sober.  I guess loving life sober was my higher power but I'd say it was more my common sense.  I never used 12-step.  One of my neighbors has been sober 34 years and one I had met fairly recently 50 years!  Amazing what power we have within ourselves also.  However, if it's what you need, I'm glad you have it.  But, there are people who just want to be sober and that is what they look upon as well as the hell they were once in and don't want to go back there - to blackouts, hospitalizations, or what-have-u which is and can be utter mayhem.  I simply love life sober and I am not going to let anyone talk me out of it.

 

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11 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Based on those previous creations, it was a logical conclusion that there must be signs for that and sure enough the following year, the Eldredge and Gould paper on punctuated equilibrium proved that scientists were seeing signs of sudden explosions of new life in a very short time periods. Exactly what one would expect of a Designer who at various times interjected in His creation to tweak the life forms already there or restart it all after massive extinction events. Which is what happened 6000 or so years ago

6000 years ago? 4000 BC was the beginning of the Bronze age. A period when the first cities were starting to form.

Perhaps you forgot to add a few zeros ?

Approximately 600,000,000 yeas ago the Cambrian Explosion.

 

Zircon.Timeline-min.thumb.jpg.428243563494952077b7ec62b63dbc79.jpg

 

Ooooops  😵 ...... Edited to correct the attribution of the quote. See @Rowan Amore post below.

Edited by Aquila Kytori
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43 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well you know lots of feminist recovery groups don't like the higher power stuff..

I've never heard of that.  But, what also really helped me and not by myself, I had substance abuse counsellors in several hospital stays after nearly poisoning myself to death with alcohol and went into a coma or a blackout, was them telling me I have a disease and explaining things to me.  12-Step, imo, needs to focus on the disease.  A disease the person needs to take control over and not let the disease control them.  The disease will control me to falling asleep with a bottle in my hand.  I know that for a fact and I don't want that anymore.  If I start drinking I know I cannot put the bottle down and I know where it will go - into a blackout and I will have serious alcoholic poisoning because I have no shut off mechanism due to a disease.  I will drink until I pass out.  

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28 minutes ago, Aquila Kytori said:

6000 years ago? 4000 BC was the beginning of the Bronze age. A period when the first cities were starting to form.

Perhaps you forgot to add a few zeros ?

Approximately 600,000,000 yeas ago the Cambrian Explosion.

 

Zircon.Timeline-min.thumb.jpg.428243563494952077b7ec62b63dbc79.jpg

 

Oh no no no...I did not say that!   Please fix the quote before everyone thinks I've gone off the deep end.  I quoted that quote with

 

giphy-downsized-large (1).gif

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14 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Perhaps I should say 'most' would, or will. I doubt you would directly do so. However, sometimes by participating in something that has a negative effect on the world (Biblical Literalism) one can indirectly harm others

Respectfully ,,,the     most or will         would not......

I was raised RC/ in my personal   family and it is huge we have RC/Jewish/ Agnostic/ Atheist/  Methodists

{,,,note love the Saturday dinners and pot lock  wink} Lutheran, Baptist , assemble of GOD, Mennonite etc and  two spaghetti monster s

And we all respect  each other and  discuss  each others   beliefs  with openness and love  and see how the path each has chosen or practice  has  helped them become the most wonderful   beautiful person s .  NO ONE  ACCUSES OR CONDEMN S OR BELITTLES   

We treasure each other

WE attend  each others services be it mass  or  temple ....the   Bar Mitzvah was wonderful  !!!!

We have love and respect for each other  we not only love w our heart  but hear each others  heart's ❤.  and seeing life through the others  eyes  and walk  in their shoes ,,,, 

And i have relatives  that are lesbians and gay and no one has ever said they were bound for Hell . 

Reading the bible

Praying

Saying the rosary

They are all passive participation so how can that have a negative  effect on the world...???

 Feeding the hungry??

The many out reach and ministries that do good and help from our parish???

 And no they do not expect you to believe .

 Where does that harm the world ???

So when i am making  boxes of food to deliver to the  needy   i am causing harm???

  How??

 Or   paying for  a persons bill for utilities and  when they try to pay me back and i tell them no ,,, get the kids something .

  How is that harming another ???

 These are some of the things  we  meaning  my personal huge  family  who follow what Jesus said love one another do ???

So how does that hurt the world and indirectly harm another  ???

  please explain.......

  

Edited by roseelvira
SPELLING the checker and post thinggy messing up
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34 minutes ago, Aquila Kytori said:

6000 years ago? 4000 BC was the beginning of the Bronze age. A period when the first cities were starting to form.

Perhaps you forgot to add a few zeros ?

Approximately 600,000,000 yeas ago the Cambrian Explosion.

 

Zircon.Timeline-min.thumb.jpg.428243563494952077b7ec62b63dbc79.jpg

 

I have, in my RL library, a 50lb slab of sandstone from the late Cambrian, showing a Climactichnites trackway that looks like a sliver of this...

image.jpeg.1f979399cabaee3e5752c5552405cef9.jpeg

Everyone who see it asks what it is. I tell them it's incontrovertible fossil evidence that alien rovers were driving around on Earth 510 million years ago.

image.jpeg.a38079721a3dbd05003c8d637f8ea135.jpeg

If we can do it, anyone can do it.

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1 hour ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

As for horoscopes, I loved them in The Onion, which stopped updating them last November. Now I'll have to make up my own.

i know i do not express myself  correctly was trying to use  that as a comparison  ,,,,,and when i try to post  the writing goes poof and i have to start over 

what i was trying to say was  reading the bible  or reading the horoscopes  does not make one do crazy stuff , ,,,i am not good at written expression

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21 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Oh no no no...I did not say that!   Please fix the quote before everyone thinks I've gone off the deep end.  I quoted that quote with

 

giphy-downsized-large (1).gif

Oh my.  Sorry this happened to you!  

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19 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

and i have relatives  that are lesbians and gay and no one has ever said they were bound for Hell . 

Possibly not allowing same sex marriage is the harm Luna is speaking of?  The Pope has said we do need to find a way to allow civil unions but that was only recently though, some time last year.  I don't want to get into a longer discussion about it though so I will leave you with an article.  (Sorry, text cut off, so I left the link at the bottom.)

ROME — The Vatican has confirmed the pope’s remarks on gay couples deserving civil protections as it sent an explanatory note to bishops underlining that Francis’s comments did not mark a change in church doctrine.

The pope’s remarks made headlines last month after they appeared in the documentary “Francesco,” at its Oct. 21 premiere at the Rome Film Festival. In the documentary, he reiterated his view that gay people are “children of God,” and said: “What we have to create is a civil union law. That way they are legally covered.”

Last week, acknowledging the “various reactions and interpretations” provoked by the pope’s apparent break from his predecessors, the Vatican Secretary of State sent an explanatory note to its nuncios, or ambassadors, to be shared with bishops, “with the desire to favor an appropriate understanding

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/02/world/europe/pope-gay-civil-unions.html

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9 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

i know i do not express myself  correctly was trying to use  that as a comparison  ,,,,,and when i try to post  the writing goes poof and i have to start over 

what i was trying to say was  reading the bible  or reading the horoscopes  does not make one do crazy stuff , ,,,i am not good at written expression

Your central claim was clear and correct, Rose. Reading the bible or horoscopes does not make one do crazy stuff.

My quibble was that Mother Theresa might be an example of how questionable behavior can be buffed to a high gloss by the application of religion rather than analysis.

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2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

No, your story just reminded me of the time that the realization hit me that I was really projecting my Father as God which I suppose he was as I was growing up but when I became an adult I should have been letting go of that. I was just slow in doing so. It was not meant as any sort of barb towards your relationship with yours. In fact I will admit I am somewhat envious of the relationship you had with yours as other then a few rare occurrences, I can't say I had much of one with my Father. It was really only after he had passed away that I really started to appreciate him for who he was.

My father was fond of this Mark Twain quote:

"When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years."

I think he'd be tickled to know I did some digging and find there's no good proof Twain ever said it. His own father died when he was eleven.

ETA: I missed the most important part. My father did not know his own father, and was raised by his grandfather, who was his best friend until he died.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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11 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Your central claim was clear and correct, Rose. Reading the bible or horoscopes does not make one do crazy stuff.

My quibble was that Mother Theresa might be an example of how questionable behavior can be buffed to a high gloss by the application of religion rather than analysis.

With great Respect and not challenging 

this article posted  below was published  by the huff post as well Sen Dick Durbin  and Mother Teresa which  is completely opposite   of the link you mentioned  Note     this was published as well by the same news source  the Huff post 

 .I found other articles   some positive and  some negative about Mother Teresa  . It seems the negatives were trying to derail the Canonization of Mother Teresa

 

headshot
Sen. Dick Durbin, Contributor
U.S. Senator from Illinois
 

A Day With Mother Teresa | HuffPost

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, roseelvira said:

 It seems the negatives were trying to derail the Canonization of Mother Teres

Meet the devil's advocate ( pro bono ) during said Canonization :

 

Edited by TDD123
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2 hours ago, roseelvira said:

With great Respect and not challenging 

this article posted  below was published  by the huff post as well Sen Dick Durbin  and Mother Teresa which  is completely opposite   of the link you mentioned  Note     this was published as well by the same news source  the Huff post 

 .I found other articles   some positive and  some negative about Mother Teresa  . It seems the negatives were trying to derail the Canonization of Mother Teresa

 

headshot
Sen. Dick Durbin, Contributor
U.S. Senator from Illinois
 

A Day With Mother Teresa | HuffPost

Mother Theresa, now Saint Theresa of Calcutta, does get very positive press. She wouldn't have been canonized if not for that. This is the high polish of religion, the same polish which was stripped away by the Boston Globe's "Spotlight Investigation" when they exposed rampant and widespread sexual abuse perpetrated by the Catholic Church.

I have several cousins in my extended family (Mom was from a classic Irish-Catholic family) that knew priests who were found to have abused children. Here's the story of a priest from my own childhood church, known to my parents...

https://www.archmil.org/clergy-abuse-response/restricted-priests/Widera.htm

Imagine how difficult it would be for Walmart to perpetrate such abuse across its customer base. The special place religion holds in the human psyche is what allows the Catholic Church (and Mother Theresa) to receive so little scrutiny.

Dick Durbin's one day in Mother Theresa's world was hardly enough for him see what was actually going on. That requires serious investigation and analysis. Canonization is not that.

Edited by Madelaine McMasters
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13 hours ago, roseelvira said:
15 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

Perhaps I should say 'most' would, or will. I doubt you would directly do so. However, sometimes by participating in something that has a negative effect on the world (Biblical Literalism) one can indirectly harm others

Respectfully ,,,the     most or will         would not......

I was raised RC/ in my personal   family and it is huge we have RC/Jewish/ Agnostic/ Atheist/  Methodists

{,,,note love the Saturday dinners and pot lock  wink} Lutheran, Baptist , assemble of GOD, Mennonite etc and  two spaghetti monster s

And we all respect  each other and  discuss  each others   beliefs  with openness and love  and see how the path each has chosen or practice  has  helped them become the most wonderful   beautiful person s .  NO ONE  ACCUSES OR CONDEMN S OR BELITTLES   

We treasure each other

WE attend  each others services be it mass  or  temple ....the   Bar Mitzvah was wonderful  !!!!

We have love and respect for each other  we not only love w our heart  but hear each others  heart's ❤.  and seeing life through the others  eyes  and walk  in their shoes ,,,, 

And i have relatives  that are lesbians and gay and no one has ever said they were bound for Hell . 

Reading the bible

Praying

Saying the rosary

They are all passive participation so how can that have a negative  effect on the world...???

 Feeding the hungry??

The many out reach and ministries that do good and help from our parish???

 And no they do not expect you to believe .

 Where does that harm the world ???

So when i am making  boxes of food to deliver to the  needy   i am causing harm???

  How??

 Or   paying for  a persons bill for utilities and  when they try to pay me back and i tell them no ,,, get the kids something .

  How is that harming another ???

 These are some of the things  we  meaning  my personal huge  family  who follow what Jesus said love one another do ???

So how does that hurt the world and indirectly harm another  ???

  please explain.......

Those sound like heavenly picnics indeed. But you can't escape the fact that the larger organization you belong to, the Catholic Church, also does harm when it interprets the Bible literally and/or forces religious beliefs on its congregation and the rest of society. (Not all Catholics are Biblical Fundamentalists, btw, but Biblical Fundamentalism is on the increase in both Catholic and Protestant faiths in the U.S. today).

Breaking bread together, whether outside at a picnic or inside at a potluck, is a very positive experience for all involved. Unfortunately, my potluck experience was a bit different than your picnic -- it was with a group of women (mostly lesbian ones along with a few beloved so-called 'token' straight women) where we comforted those from Catholic Fundamentalist families thrown out of these families for being gay, who had nowhere to go for Christmas because their family had disowned them and never wanted to see their face again. So we were their family during Christmas with our compensatory potluck.

Imagine having your family reject you totally and completely and never wanting to see you again, simply for being who you are. Such is what the majority of religions are made of.

Despite the above example, and many more heart-wrenching stories I could speak of, I actually love spirituality (not religion). Spirituality is the essence of all religions -- the mystic, contemplative dimension of love. Unfortunately, 'man' being what he is, manages to fork up whatever he gets his hands on and turns religion into the total opposite of what it should be, claiming that his way is the only 'one true way' and trying to force others to follow what he determines is right while making outcasts of those who don't tow the line. This is why religion should have no place in the laws of any nation, and why I hate, with a passion, Biblical Fundamentalism.

Edited by Luna Bliss
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56 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Not all Catholics are Biblical Fundamentalists

As my Mother told me who was raised RC, the masses used to be only allowed in Latin this is why many Catholics may not be fundamentalists.  The Bible read outside of the Latin and the protestant translation is considered falsified by many RC.  Also, even though my Mom later became a liberal catholic, perhaps a catholic of the heart and no longer attended mass nor went to church, she still believed the only appropriate, possible English translation of the Bible is the Douay-Rheims translated from the Latin Vulgate.  My Mom hung around the RC church on some weekends to play bingo and knew a few priests but she was far more into her liberal Democratic life than anything.  

I also wanted to mention my Mom later told me the Roman Catholic church gave her panic attacks.  We didn't talk in any length about why but I can assume this may be a reason my mother left as well as her beliefs against discrimination.  My Mom was pro-LGBT.   I have a cousin who married heterosexually.  She is quite an out-going girl so could hide any problems quite well as she always made everyone laugh.  About two years into the marriage, she came out as a lesbian who was living a lie.  It was gut-retching at the time for the family to see the demise of this couple who did in a way love each other.  My cousin later married her lesbian partner in Hawaii.   My Aunt had a difficult time with it.  My Mom helped my aunt a lot.  

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

This is why religion should have no place in the laws of any nation, and why I hate, with a passion, Biblical Fundamentalism.

Yeah.  

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4 hours ago, TDD123 said:

Meet the devil's advocate ( pro bono ) during said Canonization :

I did not know who he was  but after reading  he had dislike for GOD.

HE WAS NOT OR EVER  THE DEVILS ADVOCATE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH  OR DID ANY PRO BONO WORK FOR THE CHURCH ,,,,, THE CLIP IS HIS OPINION,,,,,,,  .SO THAT IS VERY MISLEADING  TITLE 

the clip is his opinion,,,,, 

  That being said , a small  number of individuals   not all   if  they  do not like  something   be it a person ,politics  church  whatever  some  will give an unfavorable  report. Fact of life .

If someone wanted to destroy a persons reputation they could follow someone  film it  edit it , put their spin on it . Write  in a way to evoke negative emotions,,,,,, on and on many ways 

I look at both sides and the truth is somewhere in the  middle

 I  in asking my  question my error  was  writing Mother Teresa [[[ NOTE i do not believe the bad press or negative opinions  from that guy ,,,, if it  was from Eddie  izzard  maybe.]]]     as she was the first that came to mind other than Jesus   . I should have written St  Francis of Assisi  but then again for all the good he has done  there are some who have a problem w him. 

I get the feeling  that  NO MATTER who i  put someone would have found fault.

I can say my  belief in GOD and Jesus  has always  brought  me through  so many  horrible unspeakable times.

 I am not  a scholar or  expert, just  a simple person trying to do the right thing  always w love ,kindness , respect and understanding

Note  at no time have i ever told anyone  to believe in my beliefs.

I have questioned to understand  others  and respect how and why they made/ make their choices .Again others  life it is  their choice . 

 If i read anyone of you were horrid etc would i believe it ,,,,, NOPE ,,,, why.... because i was not there or  know every second to second detail of your situations  .

  no one is perfect

No situation is perfect

the world is not perfect 

Judge not.  Help as much as you can doing every thing w love and understanding,

For those who do not  believe in the divine  - their choice 

For those who believe in the divine-  their choice 

live and let live

 

.

Edited by roseelvira
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50 minutes ago, roseelvira said:

live and let live

   I much prefer to live and let die.

   ... Is going to have that riff stuck in his head for a week. Worth it!

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