kiramanell Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I think my objection to the blue (aside from the fact that I just like green better in general) is that it reminds me too much of Sansar's logo. Maybe I am too sentimental about it, but that old green hand logo meant "Second Life" to me, and I really don't see this as an improvement at all. It has no history and just means nothing to me. Astute observations! The soft green was a good color, also because green is associated with grass/land (!). The new blue is too, I dunno, like Outlook or Intel colors. Guess the old adage still holds true: "Don't fix it, if it ain't broken!" 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatogateau Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, TheDamed Spore said: Precisely the hand motif holds no meaning in its own right, and when you enhance something that has no meaning away from the visual relationship it has enjoyed with a product what you end up with is a meaningless branding. Imagine if you suddenly changed the coca cola logo to blue as opposed to red. The branding would loose its significance, and in that case would be at risk of being mistaken for another competitive brand Pepsi. Logos are very important in what you want to communicate to your audience. A bad logo can significantly damage a brand, a good logo can significantly bolster a brand. This change is perpetuating a bad logo that is now further distanced from the platform it represents. You're rather making your own point why they didn't veer significantly from the original. They have a 20 yr old brand identity. You don't just throw that away. Just as you said if you changed the Coke logo to blue . . . You can argue the merits of the hand/eye logotype, but that is their logo. Sylvia stated it correctly about the sentimental value. However, sentiment aside, graphic styles do get updated and twenty years is about on par with a lot of logo redesign. It is rare that a logo would get a complete overhaul and if it did it is likely due to a merger or something drastic. Frankly, if you truly are a designer, then suggesting a confusing mess of people or items is a horrid idea. Simple, graphic, easy to remember is best for logotypes. The best logos are simple (and elegant) and pack a punch, quiet or otherwise. They aren't literally showing people at a keyboard... 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, Lyssa Greymoon said: I do not fear change. I like things that have history to them. Two different things entirely. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Must be time to drop using logos for instant brand recognition on my part since everyone keeps changing them. That's one way to lose me as a customer. If I can't recognize a certain brand at a glance because it's been changed (and I usually am not aware) I will look for something else and buy that instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDamed Spore Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, Gatogateau said: You're rather making your own point why they didn't veer significantly from the original. They have a 20 yr old brand identity. You don't just throw that away. Just as you said if you changed the Coke logo to blue . . . You can argue the merits of the hand/eye logotype, but that is their logo. Sylvia stated it correctly about the sentimental value. However, sentiment aside, graphic styles do get updated and twenty years is about on par with a lot of logo redesign. It is rare that a logo would get a complete overhaul and if it did it is likely due to a merger or something drastic. Frankly, if you truly are a designer, then suggesting a confusing mess of people or items is a horrid idea. Simple, graphic, easy to remember is best for logotypes. The best logos are simple (and elegant) and pack a punch, quiet or otherwise. They aren't literally showing people at a keyboard... I don't disagree with the idea that you should stick with a known branding, if it is a good and justifiable branding, However it is very common practice to completely redesign a logo if that logo does not represent your brand. In the case of the hand with an eyeball on it i believe it does not represent what second life is, at least not more than the previous branding did. let me give you an example of what might make a better design lets look at the components of the logo, we have a hand and we have an eye. even a basic case study would tell you second life is about people and people creating objects. With that in mind i could envision a logo that was a man with a floating eyeball as a head inside a transparent circle, you could place behind him 2 other smaller copy's of himself or some outlined cubes to represent objects, in this way it would retain the eyeball and your previous branding, whilst modernising the look and drawing it inline with the brand in context of meaning. you could then choose blue if you so wish as part of the new brand recognition. This of course is only a quick word thumbnail of what should have been done in the preliminary of re-branding, what we have been given is a zero effort, and frankly i would have rejected this if it came across my desk. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) I’ll be back when people get a thicker skin and the sock puppets get bored and leave. Edited May 23, 2020 by Beth Macbain LFB 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatogateau Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, TheDamed Spore said: With that in mind i could envision a logo that was a man with a floating eyeball as a head inside a transparent circle, you could place behind him 2 other smaller copy's of himself or some outlined cubes to represent objects, in this way it would retain the eyeball and your previous branding, whilst modernising the look and drawing it inline with the brand in context of meaning. you could then choose blue if you so wish as part of the new brand recognition. This of course is only a quick word thumbnail of what should have been done in the preliminary of re-branding, what we have been given is a zero effort, and frankly i would have rejected this if it came across my desk. Seriously? This is logo design, not product packaging. A man, with a floating eyeball, with junk behind him? You obviously have not sat in front of an art director and a table full of clients. That is some freshman graphics 101 project that probably would have had a harsh critique. LOOK at logos. A logo has to "read" and be recognized in literally a second. Futzy little details are not how it is done. First three? Iconic logos. Last one? Rather crap logo. SL's is closer (not saying it is iconic) to the first three. Your suggested thumbnail is even sloppier than the last one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatogateau Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, Beth Macbain said: Sadly, you may not know how true this is. They are doing very little hands on drawing in design schools these days. Everything is computer. And while the end product is always computer generated, students miss out on the subtleties learned in hand work. In graphic design in particular, with fonts, everyone with a computer is a lettering expert--in their own minds. In other areas of design, such as the car companies, they still make life-sized sculptures of their new cars so that human hands and eyes can assess and shape in ways that a 3D representation on a monitor never would enable. And I could go on. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDamed Spore Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) Well its clear to me you have no concept of a text thumbnail, so further words are wasted on you. For continuity's sake What i outlined was not supposed to be taken as an end design but an example of what 5 minutes of brainstorming could conceive. If your interested in learning more about design and branding i suggest you take up a course in it. If however you feel this is the pinnacle of logo design that we are presented with then there is no argument i can make to get you to think outside of your box. I have presented my educated opinion on this it is there for all to read have a lovely day. God help me its as if you personalty paid for this and now your trying to justify the cost to yourself. Edited May 23, 2020 by TheDamed Spore 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) I’ll be back when people get a thicker skin and the sock puppets get bored and leave. Edited May 23, 2020 by Beth Macbain LFB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatogateau Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, TheDamed Spore said: Well its clear to me you have no concept of a text thumbnail, so further words are wasted on you. For continuity's sake What i outlined was not supposed to be taken as an end design but an example of what 5 miniatures of brainstorming could conceive. If your interested in learning more about design and branding i suggest you take up a course in it. If however you feel this is the pinnacle of logo design that we are presented with then there is no argument i can make to get you to think outside of your box. I have presented my educated opinion on this it is there for all to read have a lovely day. God help me its as if you personalty paid for this and now your trying to justify the cost to yourself. Oh, that is just too, too precious a reply. A quick look at my reasoned response to your comments would indicate that I just might have a tad of knowledge in the subject. Just a pinch. Maybe a few more than "a course" in it. I've sat in the Ohio presentation rooms, while art directors, clients, and designers were all discussing the pros and cons of various national branding campaigns. For example, P&G, Chiquita Brands, Kroger... are all located in a certain area of Ohio. They don't do all of their work inhouse. So, kiddo... Also, just a suggestion, but you might want to take a basic English grammar course, because even your digital portfolio has to have real sentences in it if you don't want to come across as you are in these posts, but you being a "designer" you'd know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDamed Spore Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, Beth Macbain said: Do you have a logo for that? 🤔 No but thank you for pointing out where auto correct has adjusted my wording, i will make the appropriate change. You know with a little more education you could get a job at a front desk. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDamed Spore Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, Gatogateau said: Oh, that is just too, too precious a reply. A quick look at my reasoned response to your comments would indicate that I just might have a tad of knowledge in the subject. Just a pinch. Maybe a few more than "a course" in it. I've sat in the Ohio presentation rooms, while art directors, clients, and designers were all discussing the pros and cons of various national branding campaigns. For example, P&G, Chiquita Brands, Kroger... are all located in a certain area of Ohio. They don't do all of their work inhouse. So, kiddo... Also, just a suggestion, but you might want to take a basic English grammar course, because even your digital portfolio has to have real sentences in it if you don't want to come across as you are in these posts, but you being a "designer" you'd know that. All your response proved was that you are argumentative and there is nothing i can say to you that wont make you argue with me. apparently you believe that the logo is perfect and that is your right. Why you feel you have to justify yourself to me i'm not sure, i blame myself for engaging you in this foolishness. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) I’ll be back when people get a thicker skin and the sock puppets get bored and leave. Edited May 23, 2020 by Beth Macbain LFB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatogateau Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, TheDamed Spore said: All your response proved was that you are argumentative and there is nothing i can say to you that wont make you argue with me. apparently you believe that the logo is perfect and that is your right. Why you feel you have to justify yourself to me i'm not sure, i blame myself for engaging you in this foolishness. Oh stop! You're too kind. What is clear is that you've never sat through a professional critique of your work. You also cannot identify an argument. I also stated quite the contrary that I thought SL's logo was perfect, I merely pointed out that what you said was not how the industry commonly works, and your spitballed ideas were really bad design and why they are. That's the important thing, that the critique included why they were substandard and not a practical solution. We didn't even get into the immense amount of money required if SL/LL had decided to go a totally different approach. That isn't just changing an image on a webpage, that goes into some very deep pocket retooling. But as a designer, you know that. I didn't come to the thread spouting that I'm a designer with better ideas than LL. You did. I merely pointed out the flaws in your argument. You're welcome. Btw, just curious, did you really mean your avatar name to be the DAMED Spore? As in a dame? Or was that supposed to be damned and your autocorrect messed up again? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) Half this thread is testy. I don't think there's any reason we can't all agree not to agree about something so very subjective as a design. I don't like it, some others don't like it, some do like it. So what? *shrugs* Edited May 23, 2020 by Sylvia Tamalyn 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDamed Spore Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Just now, Sylvia Tamalyn said: Half this thread is testy. I don't think there's any reason we can't all agree not to disagree about something so very subjective as a design. I don't like it, some others don't like it, some do like it. So what? *shrugs* I have changed my mind, the logo should be a hand, but just a giant middle finger, that way everyone will know at first glance exactly what the community is like. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatogateau Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: Half this thread is testy. I don't think there's any reason we can't all agree not to agree about something so very subjective as a design. I don't like it, some others don't like it, some do like it. So what? *shrugs* And some of us are rather... indifferent. I know I am. I've never been a huge fan of the original. It reminds me too much of the Myst journey cloth. Or the jewelry they market to massage therapists. I also don't hate the original. Overall it isn't bad, and I get how they came up with it and why. I don't mind the redesign. I don't mind the color. I do like a good discussion on design, graphic, industrial, etc. It is a particular interest, shall we say, of mine. Myst journey cloth btw: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Gatogateau said: And some of us are rather... indifferent. I know I am. I've never been a huge fan of the original. It reminds me too much of the Myst journey cloth. Or the jewelry they market to massage therapists. I also don't hate the original. Overall it isn't bad, and I get how they came up with it and why. I don't mind the redesign. I don't mind the color. I do like a good discussion on design, graphic, industrial, etc. It is a particular interest, shall we say, of mine. Myst journey cloth btw: I'm all for a good discussion. Not to be all "as a....*insert expert title here*", but my B.A. was in art/illustration. I don't think that makes my taste in logos more valid than anyone else's, though, so I'm not going to throw down with anyone in this thread about it. As I said, some like it, and some do not. We don't all have to agree with everything LL does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindal Kidd Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Meh. I was never captivated by the logo...that was done by Second Life itself. I never thought much, either good or ill, about the old logo, and I don't think the "new" logo is enough of a change to either gush over or be critical of. It is what it is. But I do have a question...does this mean we can use the old logo without getting in trouble with LL's legal department over the trademark policy? 🙂 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Macbain Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) I’ll be back when people get a thicker skin and the sock puppets get bored and leave. Edited May 23, 2020 by Beth Macbain LFB 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said: Meh. I was never captivated by the logo...that was done by Second Life itself. I never thought much, either good or ill, about the old logo, and I don't think the "new" logo is enough of a change to either gush over or be critical of. It is what it is. But I do have a question...does this mean we can use the old logo without getting in trouble with LL's legal department over the trademark policy? 🙂 Hmm, I would think they still have the old one trademarked or whatever you do with logos (it's late and I'm tired), so I'm gonna guess the answer is "no". Edited May 23, 2020 by Sylvia Tamalyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatogateau Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 1 minute ago, Sylvia Tamalyn said: I'm all for a good discussion. Not to be all "as a....*insert expert title here*", but my B.A. was in art/illustration. I don't think that makes my taste in logos more valid than anyone else's, though, so I'm not going to throw down with anyone in this thread about it. As I said, some like it, and some do not. We don't all have to agree with everything LL does. Part of that good discussion is a reasonable discussion about why the person does or doesn't like it, or like me, isn't really one way or the other. Those reasons don't have to be "Well, the correct color should have been Pantene #..." "I don't like green" is valid. My original comment in this thread pointed out where I saw where they didn't just get rid of the background and fill the hand in with blue. They actually did make some subtle changes in the shape, which to me make the new one more readable. I thought the point of this thread was to discuss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sylvia Tamalyn Posted May 23, 2020 Author Share Posted May 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Beth Macbain said: I can’t help but wonder if they intentionally posted the new logo here first to see how the peanut gallery (that’d be us) respond to it... I dunno, they sent it out on Twitter as well. I don't suppose we know what all they've done with it, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiramanell Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 15 minutes ago, Gatogateau said: Btw, just curious, did you really mean your avatar name to be the DAMED Spore? As in a dame? Or was that supposed to be damned and your autocorrect messed up again? Ouch! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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