Unfair market

[Adams Scarmon]

Heya,

 

in RL and SL i am a boy.

When I want to find clothes in SL for my avatar, its SOOOO hard to find good stuff for the male.

It is really, REALLY annoying to search for something like ''Fairy'' or ''Medieval costumes'' or ''Silks'' and all you see is stuff for woman. MAYBE, if i am lucky, I find a few products in a store that are for the males, far hidden at the back corner.

What is wrong with the SL merchants? There is a HUGE gap in the market! Look for shoes, jewelry or even regular clothes on the marketplace. The items listed as ''female'' is 3 .. no 4 times bigger than the ''males''.

I find this very disturbing, if not annoying. So I hope a lot of merchants read this, and start making some proper male items!!

 

Thanks, and sorry for the rant. It sucks when you cannot spend your L$.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

I've found many "medieval costumes" and "silks" for men. "Fairy"? Slap on a pair of wings. Maybe you're not looking in the right places.

[Adams Scarmon]

Then could you send me a few names of the stores or send the landmarks??

I searched for ''boy'' now.. in SL search, the 2nd hit that came up was:

 

''freebies freeskin free skin free gift skins female women girl hot fashion shopping Face & body shape hot sexy
cute fashion clothes dress emo bad dirty store fishon arab kuwait ksa gulf arabic Q8 love dance clothes dress snow
winter hair male man guy boy ''

 

In the entire store there was NO stuff for boys -.-

[Darren Scorpio]

Although I would never buy "fairy" costumes (nor medievel) I have to agree and this has been my major beef for many years. All the male clothes are crappy and poor quality compared to the care that goes into making female outfits. There is never any "normal" clothes that I would actually wear anywhere in SL. All you find is crappy hip hop nasty stuff and also femboy boyw(fill in here)ish outfits that are just too pathetic. Sorry end of rant.

[Adams Scarmon]

Yea, MOST items for the male is hiphop and bling-bling noob crap.

There is hardly ANY content that is good quality for the men. It goes from Skins, Hairs, Shoes, small attachments, Jeans, shirts, shapes.. basically everything Unless you search for ''gun'' or ''Hero'' .

[Griffin Ceawlin]

I'll do that, later. Off to work for a bit. Off the top of my head, Solange (?) for silks.

[Dresden Ceriano]

I completely agree with you on this, but if you think about it, the same could be said for RL. Designers cater more to women than men. The cool thing about SL is that if you are so inclined, have the talent and are willing to put in the time and energy, you can make anything you want.

I know some places for silks and probably medieval stuff. I'll post some later after I log in and find them for you.

Until then, here's some links to menswear blogs that might get you started:

Menstuff

(ir)regular guy

Men's Second Style

Hope this helps... Dres

[Rhonda Huntress]

If you look at it as ratios, I think you will find that the percentage of well made vs crap is about the same for men and women.  Same goes for Modest vs immodest items.  Just taking a guess here, but it seems that cheap and tawdry sells.

We also are all aware that there are more women than men in SL so there should be a similar increase in the amount of products aimed towards women rather than men.  But that is not the whole of it because there are not THAT many more women over men.

So how many pairs of  shoes do you own?
I have my personal goal of maintaining my inventory under 12K.  I would be willing to bet I have thrown away more shoes than most men will ever buy.   That's just shoes.  My dresses are broken down in folders for formals, tea, short, mini plus summer, winter spring and fall as appropriate plus a couple of specialty folders; I also wear dresses maybe 20% of time. My point being, the volume of clothes that a women buys is where the big discrepancy in supply comes in.

If you want the designers to make a coordinated effort to produce more menswear and at a higher quality then there must also be a coordinated effort from the men to buy those clothes and pay for the time extra quality demands.

I know it sucks.  I am tired of looking at the same greasy-haired shirtless tattooed thug everywhere I go, too. I'm drooling over men in slacks and a polo shirt because they are so few around.  Your gripes are legitimate and they have been the same complaints for years.  While there have been some people take up the call to make more men's clothes, it is a slow change and without much reward for either builder or consumer. For that you have my sympathies and support.

[Adams Scarmon]

Thanks for your comments. You are right that IRL it is pretty much the same. The men's department is at very dark, small section of stores, whilst the woman department is at the front, taking up 80% of the store space.

Personally, i blame the men themselves. They dont ''care'' much about the items they wear, neither are they very interested in fashion at all. Which is a very wrong development. You do not have to be ''gay'' to like fashion or show interest it. Maintaining your body and dressing accordingly IS ALRIGHT, it is encouraged even.

I think that is the main reason though, there is not much demand for good quality menswear, because the gentleman have a general lack of interest, or because the Society thinks men and fashion do not go together, unless the word ''Gay'' is inbetween.

That is just totally totally wrong. But we have to live with it, and SLOWLY improve the situation i suppose.

[Persephone Emerald]

The White Armory & Fire Horse both have medieval clothes & armor for men. The White Armory has a free suit of armor for men and also sells armor & weapons. Fire Horse sells Role-Play clothing, mostly for men. BlakOpal has some nice Victorian, pirate & streampunk clothing for men & women.

Since I'm a woman in SL & RL, I'm not very familiar with male clothing shops in SL. 

Have you tried searching SL Marketplace, with pen & pad in hand, for men's clothing?  When you find nice-looking, reasonably-priced clothes, write down the name of the store or follow its link to go there in world.  When you search from Low to High priced, you can see all the free & bargain-priced items first, but that is also where you'll find most of the crappy stuff.  If you have the patience to sort through the junk, you can get some good bargains that way, though.

[Paladin Pinion]

It isn't silks or medieval, but SF Design has a whole men's department with very well done clothing and accessories.

[Josh Susanto]

People who complain about what's not available and then don't even try to make it are amusing... briefly.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

@Adams: Landmarks sent to Solange! in Wall and Husky GFX!! in Chinook.

[Toola Triellis]

Long ago and in another SL I trained models, and my male models all swore by Jeepers Creepers for shoes.  I have no idea if they are still there, but worth a search.

Also Boulevard something, a mall, had some nice contemporary clothes for men, but you had to look deep inside the stores to find them.

Sorry I can't offer more, but I've been away from SL for a very long time.

[Tiffy Vella]

There's nothing wrong with SL merchants. Lots of us became creators, and then subsequently merchants because we couldn't find the things in SL we wanted, so learnt to make them ourselves. Lots of us just happen to be women, so that's why it's skewed that way.

Women also have lots of substandard tack to choose from, and not everything is to all of our tastes. Picking and choosing is part of the fun.

My male alt had your problem too, so he just gave up and joined the priesthood. Your solution may be less extreme.

Maybe you could ask over in the fashion section, as they are pretty clue-ey over there. Perhaps post a few piccies of how you'd like to dress, and see what is suggested?

Best of luck

[Adams Scarmon]

It is easier said than done to make clothing myself in SL.

Trust me, If i knew how to, I would have filled up the gap in the market and came up with a brilliant clothing line for men only.  But unfortunately I do not have the time to start at the base, let alone the starters money for a sim and what not.

I am happy that people actually agree and state this as an issue too. Also thank you everyone who sent me landmarks to places with potential, I am checking them out as we speak.

[Ziggy21 Slade]

 

---

Adams Scarmon wrote:

Thanks for your comments. You are right that IRL it is pretty much the same. The men's department is at very dark, small section of stores, whilst the woman department is at the front, taking up 80% of the store space.

Personally, i blame the men themselves. They dont ''care'' much about the items they wear, neither are they very interested in fashion at all. Which is a very wrong development. You do not have to be ''gay'' to like fashion or show interest it. Maintaining your body and dressing accordingly IS ALRIGHT, it is encouraged even.

I think that is the main reason though, there is not much demand for good quality menswear, because the gentleman have a general lack of interest, or because the Society thinks men and fashion do not go together, unless the word ''Gay'' is inbetween.

That is just totally totally wrong. But we have to live with it, and SLOWLY improve the situation i suppose.

---

 

What a thoroughly strange thread this is, does it really surprise you that when searching for 'Fairy' you don't find many clothes for men? Really?. How many men do you imagine think.... 'hmmm whats the image I want to present here - I know - Fairy!

I don't think its really true to say that men aren't interested in fashion but it is certainly true that in general they are less interested than women, this isn't 'wrong' and it definitely isn't a 'development', it's just the way things are and always have been. Men and women use clothes differently, for men clothing is very often used to denote status or rank, a man may well put on a suit in the morning, wear it all day in the office, and then go and eat dinner in it, many women would have gone through 2 or 3 changes of clothing during the same time. Here in SL things are no different, most of the guys I know probably change their clothes about once a month,  while most of the women I know change everyday.

So I don't think you have spotted a huge gap in the market, the market has just responded to demand and realised there wasn't much, learn to live with by all means, forget about waiting for the situation to improve though, its been this way for about the last 5000 years! 

[Nathan Hopkins]

I have had the same complaint for a while.  I think designers have less incentive to create for men though for some reasons already mentioned in other comments.  I also heard that there are not male clothing templates... designers have to use a female template and that creates an additional challenge.

But I really think most guy SL users are content to wear the same outfit for months, and those who don't simply shop far less.  My women friends in SL spend a large portion of their SL's dressing up their avis, whereas I might go look at stuff once every 6 months or so.

My biggest complaint though is less about the amount of quality stuff (because really there is quite a bit out there) but more the metroness of it or excessive machoness of it.  I really don't want to look like the cover of a romance novel, or an action hero, or a sexually ambiguous hipster teenager.

[Adams Scarmon]

With all due respect, but that is a VERY old way of thinking..

Just because things are as they have always been for 5000 years, does not mean there can be a change?? Why would man always have to wear suits to work, and go home and have dinner that his wife made for him? I mean.. well, its just a very old and wrong way of thinking.

Men should be more intersted in fashion, they should be more pick in what  they wear, and they should DEMAND a big variety of clothes available in both SL and RL.

 

Now i agree that there are not so many male fairy's, but even when i look for shoes, or normal clothes for a human, I cannot find something proper for the men.

With the next bit, I hope not to offend any content creator, but there IS a lot of crap on the market. Noob stuff, which is usually free or cheap, great for a new person.. but when the standard SL clothes you get upon registration are better than some clothes inworld, then i think something IS wrong.

 

Just because a noob/freebie place that sells shoes is popular, does not mean I WANT to see it coming up when i search for ''male shoes''. In fact, all that comes up is FEMALE stuff, or mixed stuff, then when i go there, there are 2 pairs of male shoes versus 10000 pairs of female shoes. A couple of days ago, i searched on the Marketplace for ''boy'' then i narrowed my search down to the male catogeries only... and even then, there are MORE items in the ''female'' categorie than there are in the ''male'' categorie. Even though is earched for ''boy''.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

While I agree with the majority of your post, I don't agree with "it's just the way things are and always have been."

 

Men's fashion styles have changed thoughout history almost as much as women's have .  We are in a cultural period of the last 300 years or so, in which it has not been considered "manly" for European & American men to dress in as much color and variation as women do.  However, look at Tudor & Elizabethan clothing, or any Renaissance clothing of the upper classes, and you'll see just as much color & ornamentation in men's clothing as you do in women's.  Then look at the traditional styles of non-European clothing.  Traditional African & Asian fashions are just as colorful for men as they are for women.  Look at modern fundamentalist Muslem countries too. Full burkas tend to be in only a few drab colors.  Yet when women are restricted to this style of dress, men are not so severley resticted.  (Note, I'm only commenting on full burkas. Most Muslem women wear just as much or more color in their clothing as Muslem men do.)

 

 

 

(Edit to correct typo)

[Ai Velde]

The best way to make money in SL is to market to the groups that spend the most, and do the most shopping. That just tends to be women. If my shop was geared more towards men instead of women, I don't think I'd make a fraction of the money I do make. Not generalizing, but girls like to shop and are very proficient at it! And I think a majority of SL's market-based economy is driven by women, probably many in their 20's and 30's.

:matte-motes-smug:

[Tiffy Vella]

And 40's!!! I'm proudly one of them, and there's loads of us doing good stuffs.

---

Ai Velde wrote:

 a majority of SL's market-based economy is driven by women, probably many in their 20's and 30's.

:matte-motes-smug:

---

 

Actually, don't forget the 50's, now I come to think of many of my favourite women. But they just may be misrepresenting and really be in their 60's. Who can tell.

 

[Nathan Hopkins]

Why should men care more about fashion in general than they currently do? What is the force behind the "should" here?

Your average guy doesn't have a lot of social pressure to be fashionable.  His male friends will likely be unimpressed, and most women probably won't find him more appealing for it.

How should they be "DEMAND"ing, and from whom? Its not like the content of SL is made by LL, and we can "demand" they provide more male options or we leave or something.  The market for male clothing is simply far smaller, so few designers enter it.  How does it make sense to "demand" anything from them? What would that even look like?

And I think its simply not true that there are not good, high quality options for whatever style you are looking for.  I think your issues are more related to search.  Search sucks in SL, but any search engine requires some tricks and ingenuity to find the exact thing you are looking for.  I totally agree its a challenge... I've been in SL since 06 and still can spend hours or a whole day trying to find something that fits what I'm looking for.  I think you just need to be patient and dig more for the best stuff.

[Dresden Ceriano]

 

---

Nathan Hopkins wrote:

Why should men care more about fashion in general than they currently do? What is the force behind the "should" here?

Your average guy doesn't have a lot of social pressure to be fashionable.  His male friends will likely be unimpressed, and

most women probably won't find him more appealing for it.

---

 

I'm just wondering why you think they wouldn't.

Maybe I just don't understand straight women, and given my sexual preference, I can say I haven't ever really tried. But why would a woman not be impressed if a man goes through the trouble of trying to make himself look better for her. That is what being fashionable is all about, right?

...Dres

[Ziggy21 Slade]

I think you missed my point somewhat, I am not suggesting that men have to wear a suit to work and I certainly did NOT suggest that a man should always return home to a dinner cooked by his wife.

I was actually thinking in terms of going out to dinner and my point was that a man may very well choose the same clothes or the same style of clothes for both working and socialising, while a woman is unlikely to do the same. These are of course sweeping generalisations but that does not mean they are incorrect even if they don't relate to you personally or your view of how things should be  

This is the way things are and always have been ( yes I will get to you in a minute Persephone : ) ) and no amount of foot stomping from you is going to change that.

As for colourful clothing, I agree, in history and in different cultures male and female clothing is often equally flamboyant, but I still maintain they are using fashion in different ways, look at our Tudor nobleman, his clothing is dripping in gold, most of the dyes used would have only been available to the very wealthy, everything about his clothing is designed to project his rank and status, whilst this is also true of his female companion, it is notably less so, her clothing is more about presenting her.  Also it has to be said that although this could be described as Tudor Fashion, it certainly isn't a good example of what most people in Tudor Times wore.

A study conducted last May on international spending habits of people under 30 found that women and men spend their extra money in very different ways: 40% of women spend a majority of their money on clothing compared to just 12% of men. Ladies are willing to go for broke if they have something nice on while they are doing it.

Let’s lay the cliché that women are emotional spenders to rest. The numbers show that, despite women spending more on clothing and “personal care,” men spend more in many other categories, including alcoholic drinks, cars, eating out and-ahem-audio and visual equipment. (So says the Bureau of Labor Statistics most recent Consumer Expenditure Survey.)

It's just how things are !