Head and body shape configuration should be separated

[Moore Jun]

I wish head shape and body shape configuration  should be separated

If the body shape and head shape modification are separated:

* for merchant can sell body shape only, which do not affect purchaser's head shape
* for everyone, this can easy to maintain the same face but different body shapes

How many time we modify body each year?  And how many time we modify our face each year? 

Is it better to try a mesh head demo with shape on your original body shape?  

[Skell Dagger]

29 minutes ago, Moore Jun said:

Is it better to try a mesh head demo with shape on your original body shape? 

It depends on the head. For Bento heads it's usually preferable to use the included starter shape (or a purchased shape that is created specifically for that head, although even those can cause issues sometimes), which you can then edit from there, as very few of them are rigged to work out of the box on old system shapes.

We get asked this question a lot in Catwa support, and we always recommend simply writing down your usual body slider settings (Body, Torso, Legs tabs) - which takes about a minute or so. Then, when you get a new mesh head simply make a copy of its default shape and change the body settings to be the ones that you wrote down (again, takes just a couple of minutes). You can then work on tweaking the head to customise it more to your liking.

With regard to the below -

29 minutes ago, Moore Jun said:

I wish head shape and body shape configuration  should be separated

- @Nalates Urriah will probably be along soon to tell you how she does exactly that, using shape export and editing XML files.

Edited April 19, 2019 by Skell Dagger

[MirandaBowers]

I agree I think it would be much easier if the two were controlled separately.

[Pussycat Catnap]

It's pretty easy to just copy the shape dial settings from one shape file to another.

That said, I find the 'default included shapes' for just about every product that so includes such to be absolutely horrible messes.

Exaggerated features COMBINED with bad understanding of anatomy. Basically Picasso as done by a 5 year old... so it's usually best to make one on your own - with some real world visual along side it, or a set of rulers to get anatomy "known" so any exaggeration can be done with controlled purpose rather than by chance.

[Nalates Urriah]

On 4/19/2019 at 1:42 AM, Skell Dagger said:

- @Nalates Urriah will probably be along soon to tell you how she does exactly that, using shape export and editing XML files.

@Moore Jun I ran into this problem. I used a classic head and mesh body for some time and developed an awesome hot body... exercise ya know? Plus I had my naturally cute face... (stop laughing) So, I spent considerable time finding a mesh head that would let me pretty much keep my cute face and give me the makeup features that come with mesh heads.

But then, getting the head and body shapes blended was a problem. I have a load of shapes I made to get a better fit with different brands of clothes. And I have some Standard Size stuff. Now I needed to change dozens of shapes to work with the mesh head. zOMG TEDIOUS.

But, there is a way. If a shape is full permission you can export it as an XML file. I made my classic body shape so, my shapes are full perm. Most head shapes are full perm.

XML files are text files and easy to edit. They may look complicated. But, they are just a structured file. Sort of like an outline in Word. A number of tutorials teach how to edit them. But, a little thinking and no fear is all you need. Use a text editor like Notepad (Windows) or Notepad++ (free).

Each line of the file is a shape setting. Example:

        <param id="17" name="square_jaw" display="Jaw Shape" value="0.160" u8="112" type="param_driver" wearable="shape" group="0"/>

Take the file with the body shape you want and remove all the head settings. Delete the line. A setting is the <param to />. Remove the tag and everything inside. I guessed my way through. If you are being overly careful, open the viewer's Appearance panel and find the settings named there to find the setting names in the XML file.

Save that file and upload it as a shape. You now have a headless shape. Wear the shape for the head. Then wear the modified body only shape with no head settings. The viewer isn't going to complain about the missing settings. It will just keep the missing settings from the previous shape, which in this case is the head shape. The result is a blended shape of one head and one body. Save the result.

You can do the same thing with a head shape. Edit all the body settings out of an XML file, save it and upload. Wear any shape and then wear the head shape and it changes just the head keeping the body. I've done this and when I put on an outfit that uses my previous classic head and mesh body shape I just wear my head-only shape to update the outfit to my mesh head.

To export a shape use the top menu Developer (Ctrl-Alt-Q if you don't see it in the top menu)->Avatar->Character Test->Appearance to XML. You'll find the XML file in C:\Users\[WINDOWS_USERNAME]\AppData\Roaming\SecondLife\logs. Firestorm lets you pick a location for the file.

To import a shape open the Appearance Editor (Edit Shape). At the bottom is a big IMPORT button.

I have a JIRA that has made it to the Lindens To Do List. If you want this XML editing made easier, click over and click WATCH. BUG-216132 Also, Whirly wrote a better explanation of the process in a response.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Nalates Urriah

[Nalates Urriah]

6 hours ago, MirandaBowers said:

I agree I think it would be much easier if the two were controlled separately.

I agree. But, we reside in a legacy world and the Lindens really hate to break legacy content. I doubt they will go for that idea. But, they may. The are looking at feature request BUG-216131 and have it on their To Do List. Whether they just fix the file as asked or do something more... we will have to wait and see.

A big problem is the Lindens don't experience the problem. Most do not get into fashion. Some seldom change their avatar. Vir Linden has been the same ever since I came to SL. Vir has an, as in singular, catfish avatar and a bunch of testing avatars to help him test things like animesh. Catfish do not wear clothes, mesh bodies, or mesh heads. I would say the majority of Lindens wouldn't understand why this is a problem without a good deal of explanation, which you will see is the case in the JIRA.

The challenge in getting a change is letting them know how many people want the change. So, file a JIRA feature request. Get a bunch of people to click its WATCH. Or click over and click WATCH on BUG-216131.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Nalates Urriah
adding

[Chase01]

As someone who changes their shape often, I'd love to have a function that allowed me to save the numerical data and then quickly re-apply them to another shape without having to export/import. Whether or not it's possible is another story. 😊

[Remi Alpha]

On 4/21/2019 at 10:53 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

we reside in a legacy world and the Lindens really hate to break legacy content

I saw the issue tracker and it makes sense but I think the partial XML export would be too complicated for many people.

Without breaking the legacy process they could add a new button to the Edit Shape dialog: 'Apply shape from inventory'. Then you could be prompted to select or drag in a shape from your inventory (similar to how you do with Replace Links). Then there would be an apply step: Apply shape to: [x] body, [x] head, [x] eyes / (etc... ) / [x] legs.

You would then de-select the ones you don't want to change and click Apply.The de-selected ones would be unchanged.

This would be pretty simple and surely is possible. But yes it did seem like the Lindens didn't understand the need for it. Anyone who bought a new mesh head lately understands :D

[Karl Herber]

13 minutes ago, Rem Voxel said:

I saw the issue tracker and it makes sense but I think the partial XML export would be too complicated for many people.

 

No kidding. I tried to edit a shape from the XML a couple of months ago and that thing is HUGE. And it's all completely not in any kind of logical order, and it contains so much stuff that is not shape-related. I found it impossible to find the lines I needed and was forced to give up. It's actually far quicker to just write down your shape numbers on a notecard and enter them into your Edit Appearance one by one. Which is what I did in the end.

Until someone has found a way to auto-edit the XML file using a simple UI, it's going to be way beyond the skills of most people. Including me.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Karly Kiyori

[Katherine Heartsong]

Why there is not simple way of exporting/importing the values from each/every tab in the avatar editing pane, I don't know. Makes it far harder to replicate setting than it needs to be.

[SpiritSparrow Skydancer]

1 hour ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Why there is not simple way of exporting/importing the values from each/every tab in the avatar editing pane, I don't know. Makes it far harder to replicate setting than it needs to be.

Probably because some people sell shapes as no mod . They do not want you to have that info.

[Katherine Heartsong]

38 minutes ago, Tarina Sewell said:

Probably because some people sell shapes as no mod . They do not want you to have that info.

Right, I get that, but have a follow up question ... If I buy a shape, I can still right click and edit my shape, no? Which means I can read the numbers anyway and still "export" it by writing it all down. Slower, but I still have the details.

[Nalates Urriah]

6 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

Right, I get that, but have a follow up question ... If I buy a shape, I can still right click and edit my shape, no? Which means I can read the numbers anyway and still "export" it by writing it all down. Slower, but I still have the details.

I have actually never bought a No-Mod shape. I do have a couple of No-Mod shapes that came with other things. Wear a No-Mod shape and you can't open the shape editing panel to even read the numbers.

Creating a new shape while wearing a mod-ok or a no-mod shape sets all the shape values to their defaults.

There are ways to hack the system and get the shape numbers or even a copy of the no-mod shape. But, if you can't read an XML file and see the value names that appear in the shape panel, you aren't going to be able to figure out the hacks. So, shape hacks are rare.

11 hours ago, Rem Voxel said:

I saw the issue tracker and it makes sense but I think the partial XML export would be too complicated for many people.

Without breaking the legacy process they could add a new button to the Edit Shape dialog: 'Apply shape from inventory'. Then you could be prompted to select or drag in a shape from your inventory (similar to how you do with Replace Links). Then there would be an apply step: Apply shape to: [x] body, [x] head, [x] eyes / (etc... ) / [x] legs.

You would then de-select the ones you don't want to change and click Apply.The de-selected ones would be unchanged.

This would be pretty simple and surely is possible. But yes it did seem like the Lindens didn't understand the need for it. Anyone who bought a new mesh head lately understands

I like this idea. Consider adding it in the SL JIRA as a feature request.