Problem with Gamers/Game Developer

[Selene Gregoire]

1 hour ago, Sadira Desideri said:

By simply allowing non-players to have their land designated as safe zones, the devs will eliminate the issue with the troublesome players. They will have to go after people where it is allowed, and not be able to bother residents at designated safe zones who want nothing to do with it. Its the coercive behavior of the devs, that you "must be a member of the system" to get safe zone status, that is the big issue.

The problem is, you shouldn't HAVE to opt out. You should not have to join the game to be able to opt out. It should be opt in. That is the problem.

This whole thing reeks of RedZone. Those who have been around long enough to know about RedZone know what happened to it's creator. It didn't help that he was a convicted criminal (money fraud) prior to joining SL.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Selene Gregoire

[KanryDrago]

6 hours ago, Ethan Paslong said:

people don't realize, in sl or rl, they are on hundreds, if not thousends, of databases.. every purchase is logged at buyers, sellers, and LL side, with some luck also caspervent..or other delivery system. Every money transaction.L$ or rl money, even your bank, paypal, CC knows you'r active on SL, even if you only used it to have payment info on file,  every tp can be logged by LL or landowner, your posts on fb, your posts on these forums, every group post, group join, group leave, online status... ... and so on for a lót more...
In practive life... we have no choice... it just happens.

The difference is I chose to give that information to them. I did not choose to give it to facebook. I keep my rl info off the net as much as humanly possible but thanks to idiot friends facebook now has my photo, the rl name attached to, my phone number, my email address a list of my rl friends, where I work. In addition facebook uses facial recognition software which only get better in time allowing them to extend their information about me rapidly

No one else on the internet has that much information on me except a company I made a conscious choice not to deal with. I do most stuff via a vpn proxy, use disposable email addresses etc to keep info leakage to a minimum and then its all for nothing because a friend decides to let facebook at his contact list and tags me in a photo.

All the other things which I have to share info for on the net is a choice on my part where I balance what they offer against what I have to give up in terms of privacy.

Facebook has nothing to offer me yet has taken my info anyway. Why do you think I shouldn't object? The friend who did it is no longer a friend now due to it.

[Sadira Desideri]

9 minutes ago, Selene Gregoire said:

The problem is, you shouldn't HAVE to opt out. You should not have to join the game to be able to opt out. It should be opt in. That is the problem.

This whole thing reeks of RedZone. Those who have been around long enough to know about RedZone know what happened to it's creator. It didn't help that he was a convicted criminal (money fraud) prior to joining SL.

You are preaching to the choir. I never opted IN. And I won't play.  The only thing I'm hoping for out of this is that they allow non-players to safe zone their land. Its really the right thing to do. But it seems like doing the right thing is very rare these days. Very rare, indeed.

And I remember the whole RedZone nightmare. I know several people who got kicked from places because they'd used an internet cafe or dorm internet with a shared IP that someone had caused trouble with, unrelated to them. They had no right to privately collect and store resident's IPs without their permission. It truly was a criminal invasion of privacy.

[rasterscan]

* name is stored in a victims database
*voodoo
*redzone

Allow me to add this to that list of alarms. If your static IP even worse.
*IP harvesting
Last year I fell foul of one of the above top 3. Within a month my PayPal was compromised and it took 3 months to get it sorted. Co-incidental ? I felt not somehow.

Edited February 25, 2019 by rasterscan

[Kyrah Abattoir]

16 minutes ago, KanryDrago said:

The difference is I chose to give that information to them. I did not choose to give it to facebook. I keep my rl info off the net as much as humanly possible but thanks to idiot friends facebook now has my photo, the rl name attached to, my phone number, my email address a list of my rl friends, where I work. In addition facebook uses facial recognition software which only get better in time allowing them to extend their information about me rapidly

No one else on the internet has that much information on me except a company I made a conscious choice not to deal with. I do most stuff via a vpn proxy, use disposable email addresses etc to keep info leakage to a minimum and then its all for nothing because a friend decides to let facebook at his contact list and tags me in a photo.

All the other things which I have to share info for on the net is a choice on my part where I balance what they offer against what I have to give up in terms of privacy.

Facebook has nothing to offer me yet has taken my info anyway. Why do you think I shouldn't object? The friend who did it is no longer a friend now due to it.

But you aren't giving them any informations.

If they store your avatar UUID to mark that you are "dead" for their system, at no point did they "steal" that data from you, its data that is only relevant to the system they created and is about as personal as a visitor counter keeping track of which visitors have already been counted.

[Selene Gregoire]

2 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

But you aren't giving them any informations.

If they store your avatar UUID to mark that you are "dead" for their system, at no point did they "steal" that data from you, its data that is only relevant to the system they created and is about as personal as a visitor counter keeping track of which visitors have already been counted.

You are correct that the data wasn't "stolen" when it comes to SL UUIDs. The problem is, they are inputting that data into a non-LL database without the consent of the individual. Most of us trust LL (within reason) with our data. However, we do not know who these people are that have databases outside of LL's jurisdiction and have no idea if they can be trusted or not.

As was shown with RedZone, it is better to be safe, than sorry.

[Lindal Kidd]

Sadira, enough already.

You have several solutions open to you, but you keep insisting on getting the problem solved in two ways that are NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

I'm done.

[Qie Niangao]

1 hour ago, Sadira Desideri said:

 Anyway I've pretty much worn out my side of this argument so I'll just go back to dealing with things as they happen. Thanks to everyone who replied

... and I realize your following post was just responding to a subsequent response, so it appears the thread is winding down.

If this game had never created any such thing as a "safe zone" it would be very like the "Bloodlines" catastrophe of long ago, as others have noted. In a way, then, the fact these devs aren't offering a "safe zone" to non-players isn't inherently worse than Bloodlines... and no better, either. Of course, Bloodlines made some developers "SL wealthy" (that is, objectively, they made a little money for a little while), so it's not surprising there are still these copycats plaguing the grid.

That doesn't mean anybody has offered anything like a satisfactory solution. Bloodlines was a disaster for landowners everywhere, making in-world shopping practically impossible and venue management a constant challenge, especially on Mainland. Maybe the Bloodlines' folks "little money for a little while" gave the Lab enough of a cut to look away and hope landowners would keep paying tier despite it being a constant annoyance --and maybe that worked out for them, although try driving around Mainland looking for significant shopping locations or social venues; you won't be wearing out the brakes.

So yeah, it would be better if these games were required to offer no-play zones to any landowner. A lot better.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

6 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

So yeah, it would be better if these games were required to offer no-play zones to any landowner. A lot better.

Eh I disagree with this, for me this gets in the way of the whole "secondlife as a continuous world" But I guess we are already so far gone from that ideal at this point. Bloodline was pesky because it almost forced non players to be involved (since they had to accept the bites).

A while ago I wanted to make an "infector" minigame, where you could go to public venues and attempt to "zap" every person in that venue to "convert" them to your side. Essentially making any public venue a little "puzzle".

There was only two rules:

• You had to be close to your target.
• You or the target shouldn't be in the line of sight of a non-converted avatar.

It was essentially a little game of patience, and about placing yourself as you slowly go through a crowd. And I can only imagine the scandal if I actually went through with this project.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

1 hour ago, Selene Gregoire said:

You are correct that the data wasn't "stolen" when it comes to SL UUIDs. The problem is, they are inputting that data into a non-LL database without the consent of the individual. Most of us trust LL (within reason) with our data. However, we do not know who these people are that have databases outside of LL's jurisdiction and have no idea if they can be trusted or not.

As was shown with RedZone, it is better to be safe, than sorry.

It's not a problem because no consent is required to use avatar UUIDs.

Redzone did a lot more than "use" avatar uuids and you know that just as well as I do.

[Selene Gregoire]

1 minute ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

It's not a problem because no consent is required to use avatar UUIDs.

Redzone did a lot more than "use" avatar uuids and you know that just as well as I do.

Considering I was involved in helping to take RedZone down, yes, I do.

What you are overlooking is the fact that everything done with RedZone was done without the consent of the individual. 

Just because consent isn't "required" doesn't make it right or legal.

[Sadira Desideri]

49 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

... and I realize your following post was just responding to a subsequent response, so it appears the thread is winding down.

If this game had never created any such thing as a "safe zone" it would be very like the "Bloodlines" catastrophe of long ago, as others have noted. In a way, then, the fact these devs aren't offering a "safe zone" to non-players isn't inherently worse than Bloodlines... and no better, either. Of course, Bloodlines made some developers "SL wealthy" (that is, objectively, they made a little money for a little while), so it's not surprising there are still these copycats plaguing the grid.

That doesn't mean anybody has offered anything like a satisfactory solution. Bloodlines was a disaster for landowners everywhere, making in-world shopping practically impossible and venue management a constant challenge, especially on Mainland. Maybe the Bloodlines' folks "little money for a little while" gave the Lab enough of a cut to look away and hope landowners would keep paying tier despite it being a constant annoyance --and maybe that worked out for them, although try driving around Mainland looking for significant shopping locations or social venues; you won't be wearing out the brakes.

So yeah, it would be better if these games were required to offer no-play zones to any landowner. A lot better.

Exactly!!! If they didn't offer "safe zones" to ANYONE, I wouldn't be so annoyed. The fact that they offer them to players of the game (who shoudn't need to be safe zoned in the first place since they are active participants) is what is so idiotic in my opinion. If they are offering the option of a safe zone designation, it should be offered as an option to anyone who has a sim. So its either blatant favoritism or utter and complete lack of caring about non players....either that or a very coercive attempt to gain new players by saying "Sure...we'll safe zone you. But first you must drink the kool-aid".  Like I said in an earlier post...its rather like the mafia. "You pay for protection by joining us....if you don't join, we don't protect you and in fact will allow and encourage others to harass you." That's how it feels.  Anyways...beating an apparently dying horse...again LOL

[Sadira Desideri]

2 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

Sadira, enough already.

You have several solutions open to you, but you keep insisting on getting the problem solved in two ways that are NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

I'm done.

I am not insisting on anything. I'm clarifying why I feel the way I do, and why, IN MY OPINION, the devs should do something about this. Its obviously NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Everyone on this string is aware of this. Its just voicing a frustration and an opinion on how it could be dealt with, which is most obviously not happening, nor is it likely to happen. If you don't agree, or are not interested, simply don't read.  

[Kyrah Abattoir]

2 hours ago, Sadira Desideri said:

If you don't agree, or are not interested, simply don't read.

That's not how forums work I'm afraid.

[Sadira Desideri]

53 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

That's not how forums work I'm afraid.

LOL I'm aware of that....I just was kind of laughing that she made such a big issue out of making her statement, demanding that I stop, and then saying she was done. I find it humorous that she wasted so much time on something she obviously had no interest in reading. At least it gave me a good laugh! She's more than welcome to be done.

[Liaa Nova]

It's pretty simple, if someone plays A&D & wants their home safezoned, they can so long as it's their home (they are in About Land) . . why should they make safe land of someone not even playing? That tenant could then move home & the owners not bother to inform etc

There are banlines/orbs and Invul, the people being attacked CHOOSE to be, they also do the same to the other species. I play it, i've never had a problem being attacked when I don't want to be, and before I played I had no clue who did or didn't around me, we don't bother others only the ones playing