Project Bento Feedback Thread

[daFlesh]

 I have a mesh that I made where the fingers are in the relaxed position, (in fitmesh skeleton that was okay) So I will  rotate or move the new bento's joints to match my mesh's relaxed hand. In MayaStar there is a function called Custom Bind Pose. Before you explained me how to use it, thank you so much but still one question . when I change finger joints as desired on left hand, how can I get equal pose at right hand ? Must I make that manually by copy-pasting and changing - + values (that can be tricky sometimes) of translations or rotation values on each joint ? or is there an easy way for that, (I am also asking google and SL group atm ) 

[Catwa Clip]

Hello guys,
Thanks for all of you hard work everyone this project is so fun to play with.

I would like to report a bones Bug that if it wasn't already reported or maybe already someone filed jira about. i just want to make sure its reported.

After few hours of my bento head release i started getting many many complains about... bones not resetting to original rotation/location after modifying shape and specially when using my animations on a shape that the costumer created which is not the default shape.

More explainations:
my head was designed on a default SL shape and i included that shape in my head's pack. but costumers usually like to use their own shapes.
the first and last frame of all of my animations are resetted bones [selecting the animated bones and hit ctrl+R and ctrl+G] knowing that i have default shape on my blender file which i use to make animations.
i also made a reset animation that puts back all bones to their original rotation/locations.
Now when costumers change the shape then use my animations their bones snaps back to default shape position. only right click reset skeleton should put the bones back.

https://gyazo.com/7be9215d582ce8bc6ca555594f72b6a1

https://gyazo.com/231f7666102e227da2272a5f982a9d4a

Now if that bug is already being fixed then yay! if not then maybe i should write a warning on my animations ads!

Another Question:
i would really need the scripting code for the reset skeleton command to use it in my animations hud if that was already available.

Thanks alot <3

[Polymath Snuggler]

Are those sliders position based? ~ Are your animations that are playing there adjusting the position of the bones?

 

If so ~ it's been publicly stated over and over again that translation ( position ) based animations will negate the effects of any translation based slider control.

If these animations don't use translation then this might well be a bug.

 

Edit: Reset skeleton is something done locally on each viewer.   One person pressing "Reset Skeleton" does NOT reset the skeleton for everyone else viewing that avatar.  Therefore it cannot be "scripted" into your Animations.

2nd Edit: Here is a list of bones that are partially or completely affected by sliders that move their position, and therefore may have those slider values overridden by translation animations that also affect position as well:  https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Bento_Skeleton_Guide#Bones_Currently_Affected_By_Positional_Sliders

[Catwa Clip]

Hey, Thanks alot thats very helpful info,
yes rotation and location animating type.
that means uhhhhh only ugly animations can be universal thats very bad news .
then i may do a reset animation of rotation only not editing position. guess that would work for everyone to see not like reset skeleton!

ty for the info dear <3

[Gaia Clary]

If you are looking for some more details then maybe this document is also helpful:

    http://avastar.online/knowledge/the-sl-skeleton/

And this one shows the mapping of sliders to bones:

    http://avastar.online/knowledge/slider-mapping/

Although those documents are on our avastar documentation server they should apply in general for every tool.

[Medhue Simoni]

---

Catwa Clip wrote:

 

that means uhhhhh only ugly animations can be universal thats very bad news

.

---

Yep, and I pointed this out in the beginning of the open beta bento testing. If you watch 1 of my videos on the bento face, you'll see that 1 option that I considered was just taking over the lips and cheeks. With only taking over the lips and cheeks, you get a much wider range of really good facial expressions. Of course, there have been many changes since I played around with this. Not being a bento head creator, I haven't checked to see if this still works. Also, take note, that if you do take over these areas, you could also include animation to customize the lips and cheeks, instead of using the slider to do it. Some of the mouth sliders will still work, like lip fullness, so it can be a nice combination. Again tho, I have not tested any of this since the changes over the past couple months.

Oh, and Kudos on the Heads you've put out so far!

 

[Candi Clawtooth]

  Sooo I am in the Bento Viewer at this moment ........do i have the bones already with this mesh avatar that Bento just had me put on.    Also it was stated that your original avatar would be accessible in Bento ....where would i do this? in edit??  This project has me totally  confused!! hahaha

[Polymath Snuggler]

This project adds stuff to the existing ~ completely invisible, avatar skeleton.  It does not change anything for anyone unless you are a content creator that "makes rigged mesh".   For everyone else, if you have purchased something that "uses Bento" you will need the new viewer to see your new content properly ( much like you you would need a mesh enabled viewer to see mesh content )  Other than that nothing has changed, there are no new options for you to worry about except for a few new "attachment points" to  wear stuff on.  That's all!  Enjoy!

[Sanya Bilavio]

Hi everyone

Thank you very much for this thread and all your hard work, ive been reading through a bit trying to get the gist of whats been going on but its so much

Im working on mesh heads for bento and am having an issue i was hoping to get a bit of help on.

Im using Autodesk Maya 2014 and have the MayaStar 5.0 plugin installed.

Ive downloaded the bento female skeleton from the wiki page and have tried using the one included with mayaStar, however im getting an error whenever i try to paint weights.

https://gyazo.com/0595cbb24c64e800cd53ad020b4fcde6

 

The weight paint tool comes up however all the bones are greyed out so i cant select them : https://i.gyazo.com/1e24050c3815f5cb9c310d9b3bbf651c.png

 

Also when i tried uploading the head into SL the include weights button is greyed out.

There is also this line of errors when exporting : https://i.gyazo.com/1fe85f41cac8b4cd3af7fefc9faa34bb.png

 

[Bond Harrington]

Has anyone heard what the ETA is for full Project Bento release? I've got some speculation, but would like to know when LL expects to release the thing.

[Trilby4midable]

This happens on lower graphics if you turn on shadows. It also happens under water. And yes, this is a huge issue for those who wear mesh heads, and also for photographers.

[Whirly Fizzle]

---

Catwa Clip wrote:

Hi,

I'm not sure if this is a knowen issue I thought i should report it just in case, but it only happens in LL bento viewer, it never happened in official or firestorm. Alpha textures goes away from rigged mesh bento head and ALSO my none bento old heads when on ultra graphics settings and a bit lower. The skin texture on the lower layer of the head i am wearing is not Alpha. my alpha lashes alpha eyebrows alpha hairbase and alpha eyeshadow all goes away.

This is a very Huge big problem for head users, I hope it will be fixed when bento is on official viewer.

My Pc is mac btw, pc info

https://gyazo.com/6fd03ee450390e2de10373681d053c88



Save

Save

---

I filed a bug report for this bug here:

BUG-40851 - [bENTO] [MAC] On Mac systems, any textures containing alpha are invisible on all rigged mesh when shadows are enabled.

[Catwa Clip]

Thank you very much, I do watch many of your videos. they helped me alot! Thanks for sharing your talent <3

[Gaia Clary]

Hi, all;

Sorry for this lengthy post. But its complicated and i try to explain
what the issue is exactly so that maybe someone can give me
some hints for how to solve this (or tell me its impossible to solve)...

So here we go:

Maya supports "Binding to Pose" which enables Maya users
to work with characters in A-pose and even upload those
A-posed characters to SL. The trick is to get the
"inverse bind shape matrix" setup correctly and this apparently
works with Second Life when it gets an export from Maya.

Well, we wanted Blender to not stand behind and so we decided
a while back to support "Binding to Pose" also for Blender (Avastar-2).

Meanwhile we have added this feature to our tool (coming with the
next update), but a few days ago i detected a hickup:
When we rotate a pose bone (not the rig!) along its long axis
(local Y-axis), then this rotation is not transported to Second Life:



 

We know that for the Skeleton itself the SL Importer only takes care
about the Joint locations. Bone rotations are fully ignored.
However, is this also true for the inverse bind shape matrix?

I tried for a couple of days to figure out if it is possible to transfer
a mesh correctly when the pose bones (not the rig!) are rotated
along their long axis. But for me it looks like the SL Importer also
ignores the local Y-rotation in the inverse Bind shape matrix:



 

If all works correct then the entire mesh should be shown in a perfect T-Pose
when worn, with both palms down (hands flat). That is actually what the
inverse bind shape stuff is supposed to do for us, isn't it? :matte-motes-sour:

But this seems to work only for bone rotations around the local X-axis and
Z-axis (see left arm). For local y-axis rotations i did not get it to work,
the mesh remains as it is when rezzed (see right arm).

So the question is: Is this impossible because the SL Importer ignores
the local y-axis rotations in the inverse bind shape matrix or do i make
something wrong in our Collada Exporter?

Maybe a friendly Maya user can give me some help?
If you work with Maya and you know how to export an A-posed character
for Second Life, then make this test:

For the Skeleton:

1. Take the Default Skeleton
2. Pose one Shoulder by 45 degree along its long axis (see above)
3. Pose the lower arm by 45 degree along its long axis
4. Pose the other arm so that it goes to a 45 degree A pose

For the Mesh:

1. Take a T posed mesh (upper body is enough) which is not yet
   bound to the skeleton
2. Rotate one arm such that the hand is rotated by 90 degree.
3. Rotate the other arm so that it goes to an A pose
4. bind the upper body to the posed skeleton (using "bind to pose",
   or whatever it is named in Maya)
5. Export the Mesh to Collada
6. Import to SL and check if the arm remains rotated when worn
   or if it returns back to its normal orientation.

If both arms rotate back to their normal T-Pose orientation when worn,
then please send me the dae file for inspection:

my email is: gaia.clary@machinimatrix.org

I appreciate any hint :matte-motes-sunglasses-1:

 

[Polymath Snuggler]

You need to complely disassociate the skeletal heirarchy for upload but still preserve local rotational values at zero.  This has the downside of making "export with joint positions" completely non-functional.   But with a non-directly-parented skeleton you can twist any of the parts around any which way to make a "bind pose" and the as long as the joint rotations are all still locally zeroed, your file will produce an intact result.  I haven't tested the "twist" case though. But my code is currently under some rather heavy revision~ so I don't really have the means of doing so.

 

It should also be noted that the "twist" case is topologically a NIGHTMARE and should never be used.  There are some solutions you don't want to have work ~ and that's one of them.  Because the forearm topology and UV's will be a distorted twirl of a mess.

[Gaia Clary]

Hi, Polysail;

Thank you very much for your reply!

So by "disassociate the skeletal hierarchy" do you mean
"make all bones children of the root bone" ?

About the "twist" case. The bone rotation along the local-y axis also
happens (in blender) when you pose the model free in the 3D space.
For example when i wanted to pose a model into an A pose with the
arms slightly rotated forwards then the shoulder bones twist a bit:

 

• bend the arm by 45 degree downwards,
• bend the arm by 45 degree frontwards

In Blender the left shoulder is now twisted a bit. When i can not
transport this twist, then in Second Life i and up with this:



In this image you see how the twist of the left shoulder in Blender creates
a distortion in SL when the model is T-posed (left side of the image).
And also the left hand is not treated as needed (it should have its palm
facing downwards in T-Pose). So i rather think we should somehow get
this twist supported, either by messing with the tool or by convincing
Linden Lab to support it.

However i still hope that this twist is allready supported and i just do not
know how to setup the data correctly) :matte-motes-smitten:

[Polymath Snuggler]

If you parent your current bone skeleton ~ instead of from one bone to another in  proper skeletal heirarchy ~ but instead you parent them to another copy of the skeleton, then their local transforms relative to the parent node is still going to be [1,0,0] [0,1,0] [0,0,1] [0,0,0]  but it will be in correct position in world space~ as defined by it's parent heirarchy.  Then you can move them around without altering their identity transform  [1,0,0] [0,1,0] [0,0,1] [0,0,0] definition.  I dunno!! ~ it works in 3ds max this way ~ but again, I haven't tried that twist case.    Which is still going to generate horrid topology once the limb is reoriented to fit the SL TPose.

[Destiny Mynx]

when i shoot in ultra the catwa mouths are outlined. Only happens when on bento version. not on regular. is only issue I seem to have so far. it just takes a lot of playing with lighting to hide it and even then some shows. the eyes and other skin or makeup spots have been fine but lipsticks just has been weird for me.  https://gyazo.com/1fb470234116eb39cee26f661f9faaa1

[Whirly Fizzle]

Is this on the Catwa Catya Bento head or one of her non-Bento heads?

I can't reproduce that effect on the Catya Bento head in Ultra on my Windows system on the LL Bento-RC or Firestorm Bento alpha.

[Enkantadora McKeenan]

Hello after the last update of Benedict I can not login, he spends all his time in loanding.

i need help 

ty

Enkantadora Mackeenan 

[Anne Cloud]

I don't have any problems logging in, either on the main grid or beta (agni) grid with the most recent viewer. Clear, further info would probably help diagnose what the problem you are running up against here. 

Sometimes logging in to the Beta grid can take a while - logging in to a specific region rather than allowing the grid to use your last known location usually helps a lot, if that's the problem you're experiencing. 

[Polymath Snuggler]

Okay, so it turns out twist is a special case~ because bone orientation is specified by everything but the axis twist of a bone.   Think about a look at constraint, it never spins the camera on it's "look at" axis.  I'm guessing something about SL labels this as a special case it seems.

[Gael Streeter]

I do not know if this problem has been raised before but it seems there is an issue with the export of Fitted meshes with Avastar 2.0.23.

Use case :
- Export a Fitted mesh (like a fitted mesh body) with an "old non Bento" Avastar and import it in SL : It is ok.
- Migrate this Fitted mesh in Avastar 2.0.23 (either by updating the rig or by unbinding/bind the mesh on the new aramature), export it and import it in SL : The mesh seems modified !

You can see the difference on the picture below : In RED the correct and old export, in WHITE the wrong and new export.



Does someone else raised this issue ? Do I do something wrong ?

 

 

[Gael Streeter]

I made some addiotional tests and here are what I noticed : some fitted bones (like NECK or CHEST) seem to be different between Avastar 1.5.9 and Avastar 2.0.23.

Use Case :
- I import a custom male shape in both Avastar 1.5.9 and Avastar 2.0.23.- When I edit the bones like NECK or CHEST I notice that there Tail coordinates are not the same between the two skelettons





I really do not know if it is normal or not. I just raise here this difference in case it can helps to find if there is a problem...

[Gaia Clary]

The tail coordinates are actually not important. It is more that Avastar-2.0-23 has a bug that causes fitted mesh to not work correctly. This bug becomes most apparent on the CHEST and NECK bones. We fixed the cause of this issue and it will be working again with the next update.

Please remind that Avastar-2 is not even a beta software, it is in development still and we have started testing the fitted mesh part only a few days ago while working on our support for development kit integrations.

All i can ask for is: keep patient, we will have this solved!