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Project Bento Feedback Thread

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Hi,

I'm not sure if this is a knowen issue I thought i should report it just in case, but it only happens in LL bento viewer, it never happened in official or firestorm. Alpha textures goes away from rigged mesh bento head and ALSO my none bento old heads when on ultra graphics settings and a bit lower. The skin texture on the lower layer of the head i am wearing is not Alpha. my alpha lashes alpha eyebrows alpha hairbase and alpha eyeshadow all goes away.
This is a very Huge big problem for head users, I hope it will be fixed when bento is on official viewer.
My Pc is mac btw, pc info https://gyazo.com/6fd03ee450390e2de10373681d053c88



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Ha!

This has happened to me a few times when testing the Firestorm Bento viewer today.

I was wearing a non-Bento mesh head (the LAQ Trinity). My alpha eyelashes kept turning invisible. Reattaching the head fixed the problem, until it happened again.

I presumed I was just seeing alpha fighting but I couldn't work out why because I had no layer active around the eyes with any alpha texture.

Looks like this may be a bug with Bento then?

You should file a JIRA issue Catwa - https://jira.secondlife.com/secure/CreateIssue!default.jspa

If there isn't one filed & it happens to me again on the LL bento viewer, I'll file it.

 

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If im on high graphics, yes sometimes the alpha gives me bugs like lashes hiding the eyeshadow but at least i can see alpha but glitched i mean alphas can be seen but with the regular glitch that we already suffer from before. detaching and attaching the head yes fixed the bug in that graphics settings level [high]. but on higher than high graphics i tried to detach and attach the head many many times.. they never were fixed no alpha shows at all not even one taking away the other. simply no alphas at all.

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Hi Medhue,

For good or ill, we have a whole lot of different ways to add things to outfits currently. What specific process would you like to be able to use for adding gestures?

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Vir Linden wrote:

Hi Medhue,

For good or ill, we have a whole lot of different ways to add things to outfits currently. What specific process would you like to be able to use for adding gestures?

After finishing up 2 avatars today, I realized that putting my gestures in the avatar's folder, and then having the customer rightclick/replace current avatar on the folder, does Activate the gestures, and Deactivates when you change to another avatar in the same way. Of course, the customers still have to add the gestures to the Outfits, but at least there is a workable way to get gestures activating and deactivating as they should.

All that said, IMHO, the gestures should be added to an Outfit when you save the Outfit. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but currently, if you save your Outfit, the system takes everything, except gestures, and adds it all to your Outfit. Yes, there are numerous ways to add things to an Outfit, but the easiest and most used is simply saving your Outfit.

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But if saving your outfit saves all currently activated gestures to your outfit, then it will save ALL of your gestures, whether they're specific to that outfit or not. If you remove an outfit and wear a folder instead of another outfit, you'll have no active gestures.

 

What might be more useful is just making it more apparent that gestures can be added to an outfit, by adding gestures to the "Add More" button at the bottom of the outfit editor. I'm presently on Firestorm, not LL viewer, but I see...



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Teager wrote:

But if saving your outfit saves all currently activated gestures to your outfit, then it will save ALL of your gestures, whether they're specific to that outfit or not.

 

I'm not sure I see the problem with all this. If you are wearing gestures not made for your custom avatar, then saving your outfit exposes these gestures and the user can simply deactivate the gesture and resave the outfit.

 


Teager wrote:

If you remove an outfit and wear a folder instead of another outfit, you'll have no active gestures.

 

If you have gestures in that folder, and you rightclick/replace current avatar, then you'll have active gestures.

 


Teager wrote

 

What might be more useful is just making it more apparent that gestures can be added to an outfit, by adding gestures to the "Add More" button at the bottom of the outfit editor. I'm presently on Firestorm, not LL viewer, but I see...

 

Sounds good to me also, on top of saving gestures when you save your outfit.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


All that said, IMHO, the gestures should be added to an Outfit when you save the Outfit. Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but currently, if you save your Outfit, the system takes everything, except gestures, and adds it all to your Outfit. Yes, there are numerous ways to add things to an Outfit, but the easiest and most used is simply saving your Outfit.

If this change is being considered, please can it be made optional?  Maybe a tick box to include currently active gestures when you save an outfit.  I'm not bothered if it's enabled by default, as long as I can turn it off.

For me personally automatically saving currently active gestures in an outfit is more of a pain then a help, but I understand Medhue's use case.

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Whirly Fizzle wrote:


If this change is being considered, please can it be made optional?  Maybe a tick box to include currently active gestures when you save an outfit.  I'm not bothered if it's enabled by default, as long as I can turn it off.

For me personally automatically saving currently active gestures in an outfit is more of a pain then a help, but I understand Medhue's use case.

My main concern is that people really don't ever know what gestures they are wearing, or often forget about them, because gestures are handled differently. I could easily see someone changing avatars and all of a sudden their face explodes. Currently, the only way to see all the gestures that are activated is to search for Activated. They do not show in the Worn option.

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I was going to reply that you can easily see all active gestures by ticking "Active only" in the Gestures floater.

However, that option isn't available on the LL viewer.

So additional suggestion, add the Firestorm feature that allows you to display only active gestures in the gesture floater.

 

 

 

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I think you've missed my point... The problem with your suggestion is that most people use far more gestures that are NOT specific to any one outfit or avatar than gestures that are. Things like welcome back gestures, club/DJ gestures, favorite random noises for smiley faces, etc. These gestures are not typically stored in an outfit or clothing folder. So if all active gestures are added to an outfit, then that outfit is removed and those gestures are all deactivated, the user would have to manually search through their gestures folder to find and reactivate each gesture.

 

I don't know about you, but I probably have at least 100 gestures in my gestures folder, and I suspect that's on the low end compared to other users. Searching through each of those one at a time to try to remember what they do and which ones I was using seems extremely inconvenient.

 

What you may want to consider instead, if you're concerned about people using your wolf talk gestures on another avatar that they're not meant to fit, is setting up empy gestures for /voicelevel1, /voicelevel2, and /voicelevel3 which do not play an animation themselves, but instead chat on a private channel "1", "2", or "3" to your AO to indicate that it should play a speech animation in your AO. That way, if the gesture is played with any other avatar worn, it will do nothing (or, worst case, will play a talk gesture appropriate to that avatar).

If you need help setting up a script like this one, you could talk to Tapple Gao, who has one premade and open source.

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Just commenting on the vast difference in our inventories. Of course, I am a special use case, but I probably have hundreds of gestures. Speech gestures require 16 to cover the full range of voice. Now multiply that by how many avatars I've made, and then add in normal gestures I've made or acquired.

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I do completely understand now the concerns here, but at the same time I don't quite agree with the solutions.

Even with your concerns, I still think my suggestion is better. It treats everything the same, and easy to understand.

A simple solution, to yours and Whirly concerns, would be to create an Outfit with only those gestures that you most often and most like to use. Then, you'd simply add it to your current outfit, if appropriate. (Edited) Scratch that, I forgot that we have to have certain parts of the avatar in the Outfits. That said, you could just put those gestures that you like in a folder, and then just select the whole folder and add it to any outfit you want.

 


Teager wrote: 

What you may want to consider instead, if you're concerned about people using your wolf talk gestures on another avatar that they're not meant to fit, is setting up empy gestures for /voicelevel1, /voicelevel2, and /voicelevel3 which do not play an animation themselves, but instead chat on a private channel "1", "2", or "3" to your AO to indicate that it should play a speech animation in your AO. That way, if the gesture is played with any other avatar worn, it will do nothing (or, worst case, will play a talk gesture appropriate to that avatar).

If you need help setting up a script like this one, you could talk to Tapple Gao, who has one premade and open source.

While I'm not totally against using scripts instead of gestures that do the same thing, as I had my coder do this for chat gesture triggers, I"m not sure it would be best for voice. I guess the question would be, which is better, meaning which triggers faster, as a real mouth moves incredibily fast and it is difficult to get it all working fast enough to keep up. I'd love to chat with Tapple about creating some Bento specific scripts tho.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 That said, you could just put those gestures that you like in a folder, and then just select the whole folder and add it to any outfit you want.

 


You could also do the same to fix the problem you are currently having  ;)

If we had an option to save currently active gestures when we created a new outfit, this would keep both sides happy.

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Not to beat a dead horse, but I try to look at it from the newbs point of view. Yeah, in SL, or in creative programs in general, there are many ways to do things. This is why the default way should be as newb friendly as possible. The seasoned veteran can easily figure out how to get things the way they want it.

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As someone who hardly uses gestures at all ~ and has a microphone that makes me apparently sound like a robot having an aneurysm I don't have much to contribute to this conversation at all.  However~  "The newbie experience" and keeping things in a way that offers the maximum ease of use should always be the goal !!

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Vistanimations wrote:

you have any
news?

Do you know
any
date
?

thanks

In Avastar, all the bones have been added to the retargeting system in the last release. I don't know about Cathy's Mayastar yet.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

 

While I'm not totally against using scripts instead of gestures that do the same thing, as I had my coder do this for chat gesture triggers, I"m not sure it would be best for voice. I guess the question would be, which is better, meaning which triggers faster, as a real mouth moves incredibily fast and it is difficult to get it all working fast enough to keep up

as a way to maybe help with this

i can never remember gesture triggers myself, which is my motivation for what I do about it

I pretty much always make a HUD to go with a outfit where gestures are needed to enhance. Either touchface or menu  depending

when click on the HUD menu button it llSay the gesture trigger. Touchface for normal scripted stuffs

personally I find a HUD that is made for a custom outfit is lots easier in that no need to think about it kinda way

+

eta typso and clarifications

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There's been a lot of good discussion here on various alternative approaches to gesture support in outfits. I'm afraid a lot of it is going to be hard to find or keep track of in this forum; if someone wants to file a feature request JIRA, that would make a better home for the discussion, and would give us something to consider as possible post-Bento (or just outside of Bento) work.

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im curious to know after hearing many people say one thing and another alot of people have spent lots of money in sl With updating avis ect are the items we have bought going to be incorperated into bento? rolling inventory over to this new viewer?

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