Ban Lines

[daisybloomer]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Still you are asking people who pay a fortune for land to give part of it up for public use but still pay for it, which is great if they choose to, but if they don't want to they shouldn't be condemned by the people who want to boat.

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Don't forget that if this is a renter, and if it is explicitly stated in the rules or covenant of that estate that ban lines cannot be used or certain amount of prims needed to be given up for public use of the waterways then that supercedes any "I pay so therefore I am entitled" logic or mentality. My opinion on the matter is ban lines are not so much a nuisance as long as it's used in a respectful manner to everyone around or have a very valid reason for doing so, and not because the resident suffers from paranoia or has their stupid hat on.

[LeonardoMyst]

I also vote for ban lines to be moved closer to land to allow for more public ocean.

Or make them appear as gaudy physical borders... perhaps a gilded pink 50 foot tall wall? ;-)

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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daisybloomer wrote:

 

Don't forget that if this is a renter, and if it is explicitly stated in the rules or covenant of that estate that ban lines cannot be used or certain amount of prims needed to be given up for public use of the waterways then that supercedes any "I pay so therefore I am entitled" logic or mentality. My opinion on the matter is ban lines are not so much a nuisance as long as it's used in a respectful manner to everyone around or have a very valid reason for doing so, and not because the resident suffers from paranoia or has their stupid hat on.

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The I pay so therefore I am entitled is a owner's right under the TOS.  Renting of course is another matter.  The renter must follow the terms of the lease, there is no argument there.  However a renter is given that information before they rent so if they don't agree they don't rent.  And BTW, there are landlords that forbid ban lines but allow security orbs for the whole property, do not require that you reserve a certain number of prims as well as landlords that don't give you any restrictions other than to pay the rent.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

I wish i could see my own ban lines,i would turn them on and have a blast..

But since i can't, i have to use everyone elses..

Banlines,The trampolines of second life..

We just can't use our own,dammit!

hehehe

[jwenting]

When I owned a coastal mainland parcel (I gave it up because new neighbours placed 100m tall "privace screens" of plain plywood on one end, new neighbours on two other sides built up platforms over the water to the sim edge, then put up banlines, leaving me with only a narrow strip of unobstructed view and access to sailing water) I didn't put up banlines.

I put in a security orb that was set to ban only specific blacklisted people, and put a 5 minute autoreturn on objects rezzed outside the land group so people could pass through, even rez their boat there as a starting point for their trips.

It's easy to be a good neighbour and citizen, sadly way too many people don't want to bother even trying.

And it's extending to RL as well. I'm seeing 3-4m tall steel fences with quarter inch bars and padlocked gates going up around gardens here where prior there was only a decorative knee high fence...

 

And most of the responses I've had from people when I ask them to please allow sailors to pass through their parcels were rather rude. Some were kind, some even opened up their lands for transit traffic, but mostly those were other sailors...
The general attitude is "I want total privacy and don't want anyone here, ever". Which makes you wonder why they are in sl at all if all they do is sit alone in their houses never interacting with people (except of course complain on the forums and in group chats about how dead sl is, how there's never anyone outside their private homes...).

[Markham Weatherwax]

I understand completely. I dislike ban lines,but do understand them. I can put up with ban lines, but security orbs drive me nuts

You can see ban lines but with orbs you can easily find yourself in the middle of a property before you get warned off with little time to respond. More than once I've hit one and have scrambled to get off the property only to hit another property that has a security orb too, and then another. Sometimes it's hard to ascertain exactly where you are - especially when flying. 

I explore a lot because I like to and also because I am going to write an in-world newsletter and am making new maps of SL with points of interest. I used the Ban Line Hud V4. It works well and it helps me out a lot.

There are lots of public roadways and waterways through and around mainland areas, they just don't go through each and every region. I always thought there should be at the bare minimum a public access road, path, or waterway in each and every region. There cannot be public space between each and every property because that would remove the ability to join or separate properties. It's too late to fix every region now with public access areas anyway.

One of the problems with ban lines is that the owner of the property never sees them, so it doesn't bother them. I think a nice solution would be to have the ban lines replaced by a generated fence for land and a buoy line system for waterways that everyone sees, including the property owner/group. That would certainly make a land owner think twice about setting that feature.

If you did that most of them would then get security orbs, so not a good solution either. Perhaps there is no solution other than to have land owners manage their properties and ban only those who abuse the privilage. 

 

[Paul Hexem]

I just wish ban lines were VISIBLE. That's their glaring problem.

They're invisible until you're on top of them, and by then that's too late.

They should be as visible as giant prim walls, and show up in our draw distance accordingly.

[Markham Weatherwax]

I understand not having that because it would destroy the view. *grins*

What would be helpful is if the mini-map showed which properties had ban lines, or at least have the main map in zoom show redded out areas that had them. That would be SO useful. I don't think :LL will ever give it to us, so thank goodness for the Ban Line HUD.

 

 

[Aethelwine]

I don't find the banline hud that useful. Everytime I do a sim crossing it vanishes and then re-appears and maybe one in 10 sims it breaks because I have had a slightly bad crossing.. maybe in to a parcel with scripts disabled and then bang I have flown\sailed\ridden in to a banline and am stuck and looking for somewhere to rezz. I find it more reliable to use the minimap with parcels turned on and then just use pattern recognition to see where the linden made safe routes are through sims.

[Paul Hexem]

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Markham Weatherwax wrote:

I understand not having that because it would destroy the view. *grins*

 

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It SHOULD destroy the view, that should be part of the penalty of using them excessively.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Markham Weatherwax wrote:

I understand completely. I dislike ban lines,but do understand them. I can put up with ban lines, but security orbs drive me nuts

You can see ban lines but with orbs you can easily find yourself in the middle of a property before you get warned off with little time to respond. More than once I've hit one and have scrambled to get off the property only to hit another property that has a security orb too, and then another. Sometimes it's hard to ascertain exactly where you are - especially when flying. 

I explore a lot because I like to and also because I am going to write an in-world newsletter and am making new maps of SL with points of interest. I used the Ban Line Hud V4. It works well and it helps me out a lot.

There are lots of public roadways and waterways through and around mainland areas, they just don't go through each and every region. I always thought there should be at the bare minimum a public access road, path, or waterway in each and every region. There cannot be public space between each and every property because that would remove the ability to join or separate properties. It's too late to fix every region now with public access areas anyway.

One of the problems with ban lines is that the owner of the property never sees them, so it doesn't bother them. I think a nice solution would be to have the ban lines replaced by a generated fence for land and a buoy line system for waterways that everyone sees, including the property owner/group. That would certainly make a land owner think twice about setting that feature.

If you did that most of them would then get security orbs, so not a good solution either. Perhaps there is no solution other than to have land owners manage their properties and ban only those who abuse the privilage. 

 

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I think I refrained from posting to this thread back when it was first started, but since it's been (mildly) necroed I will now. It's quite possible, easy even, to use security orbs that only prevent avatars from being in places you don't want them to be. I had one such, when my house was still in place—at the moment I've got an Airstream trailer parked on the lot so I have a place to log in to while I figure out where I'm going from here—that I used to prevent avatars from using the available animations in my bed. I didn't care about people being on my land or just walking through the parcel or the house, whether I was there or not there. It just so happened that my login LM was my bedroom (upstairs and with closed blinds) and I did not want to log in and find avatars having it off in my bed. Some people don't mind about that kind of thing, I do. Sue me.

Because my parcel is Linden roadside, and even more because it's relatively close to a sim border, I changed my orb (mostly due to things pointed out to me in this Forum). My original orb had a minimum radius of 10 meters, and had a quite short and not user adjustable timer; I believe it was 10 seconds which is barely enough time to read the message telling you you're intruding. I did not worry too much about that when I set it up. Reading comments here,  I got the idea that if someone was coming down the road from the east at a really high rate of speed, it was possible the sim crossing heave-ho could kick them up in the air and far enough offroad to go through my bedroom and be snared by the orb. Unlikely, but possible.

A creator in a thread in which this was all discussed sent me an alpha test of an orb he'd scripted. It had a fully user adjustable area radius, alarm interval, eject interval, and intruder notification message. Nifty. I set it for a one meter radius and set the alarm interval at something like thirty seconds (meaning even if a vehicle did get shot through my bedroom it would probably just keep right on going without even tripping the orb) and an eject interval that allowed plenty of time to exit the 'protected' area gracefully in cases where the alarm WAS tripped.

I've seen posts in the past (and in this thread) from Pussycat Catnap who has much the same sort of arrangement with her security orbs. I think she has hers set to make her entire house off-limits and I don't really mind if someone's in my house, but the person who pays for the parcel makes the rules. In any case, she knows how to set her orbs so they are NOT a barrier to normal travel.

The problem with orbs is probably that some people who use them don't know enough about how they work to:

A. purchase an orb with enough user adjustment, and

B. set them up properly.

[Markham Weatherwax]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

I think I refrained from posting to this thread back when it was first started, but since it's been (mildly) necroed I will now. It's quite possible, easy even, to use security orbs that only prevent avatars from being in places you don't want them to be. I had one such, when my house was still in place—at the moment I've got an Airstream trailer parked on the lot so I have a place to log in to while I figure out where I'm going from here—that I used to prevent avatars from using the available animations in my bed. I didn't care about people being on my land or just walking through the parcel or the house, whether I was there or not there. It just so happened that my login LM was my bedroom (upstairs and with closed blinds) and I did not want to log in and find avatars having it off in my bed. Some people don't mind about that kind of thing, I do. Sue me.

Because my parcel is Linden roadside, and even more because it's relatively close to a sim border, I changed my orb (mostly due to things pointed out to me in this Forum). My original orb had a minimum radius of 10 meters, and had a quite short and not user adjustable timer; I believe it was 10 seconds which is barely enough time to read the message telling you you're intruding. I did not worry too much about that when I set it up. Reading comments here,  I got the idea that if someone was coming down the road from the east at a really high rate of speed, it was possible the sim crossing heave-ho could kick them up in the air and far enough offroad to go through my bedroom and be snared by the orb. Unlikely, but possible.

...

I've seen posts in the past (and in this thread) from Pussycat Catnap who has much the same sort of arrangement with her security orbs. I think she has hers set to make her entire house off-limits and I don't really mind if someone's in my house, but the person who pays for the parcel makes the rules. In any case, she knows how to set her orbs so they are NOT a barrier to normal travel.

The problem with orbs is probably that some people who use them don't know enough about how they work to:

 

I think you are correct in that most people who buy Security Orbs don't know how to use them and won't take the time to learn. They want to rez it, set the easiest settings, and then let it go. They don't realize how it affects others because it never affects them.

Now, to keep people out of your bed (grin), you of course need lockable doors. The way to fix the TP issue is really rather simple. You clear the landing point of your property, go to your bedroom (if that is where you want to arrive at) and set it to your Home location. Then go to the outside area you want everyone else to arrive at and then set that to as landing point. You will then arrive in your bedroom when you click home and they will TP in your yard from then on. 

I own property along a Linden roadway too. I specifically chose it because I wanted people to find my place as they wander or drive down the road.  I find it absolutely ludacris that people buy property along a public thoroughfare and then throw up bans lines. They should have bought somewhere else, not on a roadway.

We are never going to agree with each other about Security Orbs. I don't like them, but I do see the need for them in a very specific way. I think people who use them should put up no tresspassing signs and then set their orbs to deal with "intruders" after a minute or two, giving the usually innocent party time to read the sign and depart. I also think land owners should put up fences or walls, clearly defining the boundries to their land, so people will know where to go to get off the property, and would stop them from walking into it at all.

Ah well. It's life in the grid. Land owners do make the rules. To each his or her own.

 

[Dillon Levenque]

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Markham Weatherwax wrote:

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I think you are correct in that most people who buy Security Orbs don't know how to use them and won't take the time to learn. They want to rez it, set the easiest settings, and then let it go. They don't realize how it affects others because it never affects them.

Now, to keep people out of your bed (grin), you of course need lockable doors. The way to fix the TP issue is really rather simple. You clear the landing point of your property, go to your bedroom (if that is where you want to arrive at) and set it to your Home location. Then go to the outside area you want everyone else to arrive at and then set that to as landing point. You will then arrive in your bedroom when you click home and they will TP in your yard from then on. 

We are never going to agree with each other about Security Orbs. I don't like them, but I do see the need for them in a very specific way. I think people who use them should put up no tresspassing signs and then set their orbs to deal with "intruders" after a minute or two, giving the usually innocent party time to read the sign and depart. I also think land owners should put up fences or walls, clearly defining the boundries to their land, so people will know where to go to get off the property, and would stop them from walking into it at all.

Ah well. It's life in the grid. Land owners do make the rules. To each his or her own.

 

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My orb (when it was still there) did pretty much as you suggest, short of having a sign. To trigger the orb an avatar had to actually climb into the bed and remain there for more than thirty seconds, at which point the intrusion message would display, explaining that particular spot was off-limits and must be vacated in (as I recall) 60 seconds. All one had to do was Stand to be out of the one meter range of the orb, which was centered under the bed.

I do take your point about orbs in general, even though as you suggest we're not going to agree. I have heard similar sentiments from others who spend a great deal of time exploring the grid. There probably comes a point when you've been yelled at, ejected, and sent off once too often by things that had no business doing that.

[Markham Weatherwax]

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Aethelwine wrote:

I don't find the banline hud that useful. Everytime I do a sim crossing it vanishes and then re-appears and maybe one in 10 sims it breaks because I have had a slightly bad crossing.. maybe in to a parcel with scripts disabled and then bang I have flown\sailed\ridden in to a banline and am stuck and looking for somewhere to rezz. I find it more reliable to use the minimap with parcels turned on and then just use pattern recognition to see where the linden made safe routes are through sims.

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It works for me, but I think it is because I tend to walk and fly everywhere or use a wearable vehicle, going slowly because I am making note of what is around. I assume that if you are going fast it would be harder for the HUD to keep up and adjust. I walk, use a bike, the HoverPod, and things like that, so I tend to take it slow. It works best when you go to a region and let it update and then make mental note of the where the ban lines are and avoid them.

But I understand what you are saying as one of the key selling points is that it is useful when using a vehicle. Most folks would take that as meaning using a vehicle at normal speed, which is probably too fast for the HUD, and certainly not for going quickly between regions. To give it credit, though... it does seem to be accurate when I am strolling around.

 

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[Bobbie Faulds]

I have one security orb. It's set up to boot people from my workspace where I do my clothing. It's at 2000 meters up and a customer has no need to be up there...I have it set for 20 meters and 20 sec boot. I only got it after I had an intruder that even after ejecting him, he came back so I booted and banned him. Then I got the orb mainly because when I'm concentrating on making huds or I'm in PS outside SL, I might not see them. This one tried staying hidden behind my texture organizers and photo studio.

[Markham Weatherwax]

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I have one security orb. It's set up to boot people from my workspace where I do my clothing. It's at 2000 meters up and a customer has no need to be up there...I have it set for 20 meters and 20 sec boot. I only got it after I had an intruder that even after ejecting him, he came back so I booted and banned him. Then I got the orb mainly because when I'm concentrating on making huds or I'm in PS outside SL, I might not see them. This one tried staying hidden behind my texture organizers and photo studio.

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Man! That person was really off! Sheesh!

I understand using an orb in that context completely. I'd do the same. It makes sense.

Whew. There are some odd folks in the world and in this one too.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

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 To trigger the orb an avatar had to actually climb into the bed and remain there for more than thirty seconds, at which point the intrusion message would display, explaining that particular spot was off-limits and must be vacated in (as I recall) 60 seconds..............

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To the dismay of many women for a lot of men that is more than enough time...................

(Though some women are relieved by that)

[EleanorJean]

I agree about ban lines. Security orbs are the way to go if you are trying to avoid griefers or just plain want to keep others from your little space. It helps when someone is just exploring to not make their day toast. Not to mention that the lines just ruin the whole visual experience. Ugly things ban lines.

Just my two cents