Linden Labs newest Policy Changes

[Sid Foxglove]

Well to be perfectly honest i think Linden Labs made it a little unfair to people who run a business on bot's to spam groups and invitations and Group chat's, to be perfectly honest LL makes a lot of money of people off Mainland sales and Private Regions, to  be honest, lets be realistic they make money er regardless of even selling lands, by meberships and also every market sell as well, maybe not as much but they are making there money and eating it too.

 

You guys come to the conclusion that to many logins and group notices sent over loaded your server, well i might have to agree with a major server crash then once fixed everything logins and spams like crap.... i cant understand this, and if people are going to complain they need to blame them selves for having so many bots to spam the same group repeatly... or spam multi groups, you are the real reason why the policy had to be put in place, but it is also LL's problem to for not keeping up with the current Strand on over loading servers , and bottleknecking to help calm thing's as a company you should have to be prepared for such things, i dont think it ruins anyones expreince in any nature to get a invite to a group or maybe getting a lil spam as long as that group is valid for spam, limiting it to 5k per day is a little stupid as most bigger groups hold more then 5k people, you can do better then this Linden labs or your just not a very good company, one or the other, i am not trying to flame you guy's but lets get realistic here,l as for staters playing oonline games is fun and exciting to anyone, this is what i would call a MMROPG and Secondlife be anything you want Fantasy , people often think games have to have goal's in it or some capture the flag, but with no common sense that these people have to not really see what it really is, and the objective is have fun, abnd be what ever you want to be that you wouldnt be in Real Life, other say its oonline community, well every Game has an online Speakable feature as wlel like a local chat and trades etc. you interact with people on a daily basis almost the same..

 

The current policy might have been needed but i tghink all in all the capped should be raised a lil each time to test the fields on people who pay good money for bots and so gorth to spam for there Breedables Sex products Escorts what ever they use it for.. in the long run your actually hurting yourself by the limit to be honest.

 

i mean if were me your groups and everything else will still get over loaded why, hiring people to do the spam, what are you going to do next limit the paid subscribers and people who buy things that keep money in your pocket? its just a little wise to say you should really rais the cap, and not limit per people that gets notice but instead limit the amount of groups notcies per day .. like to 5 or 8 per day to send to each and every group for bots just an idea LL to help you guys out and that way you dont lose any customers and keep people happy other wise you might lose more people then you might expect!

[Heart Brimmer]

TL: DR

AND you DO know that LL does NOT read this forum, right? Happy New Year

Edit to fix a typo

[Perrie Juran]

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Heart Brimmer wrote:

TL: DR

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Short Version:  OP thinks they are a privileged class who should be able to SPAM everyone at will.

 

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Heart Brimmer wrote:

 

AND you DO know that LL does NOT read this forum, right? Happy New Year

 

---

Actually I think that they do read at least some of it.

What they don't do with rare exception (Server and Merchant's Sub Forums) is REPLY.

[Canoro Philipp]

yes, as a company that host comunications between users, they should be prepared to handle millions of messages per hour without crashing, and not need a cap rule.

unfortunately, they are not simply a messaging company, there is a lot that those servers are doing besides communication, they are streaming a real time changing 3D world, and making objects react differently processing the code that is built on them and obeying the physics of the world. they may be focusing their power more on the visual aspect than in the transmission of messages.

i agree that applying the cap rule to only bots can be bypassed by not registering accounts as bots and making them send the messages to groups.

 

[Heart Brimmer]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Heart Brimmer wrote:

TL: DR

---

Short Version:  OP thinks they are a privileged class who should be able to SPAM everyone at will.

 

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Heart Brimmer wrote:

 

AND you DO know that LL does NOT read this forum, right? Happy New Year

 

---

Actually I think that they do read at least some of it.

What they don't do with rare exception (Server and Merchant's Sub Forums) is

REPLY.

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This is true. :-)

[Perrie Juran]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

yes, as a company that host comunications between users, they should be prepared to handle millions of messages per hour without crashing, and not need a cap rule.

unfortunately, they are not simply a messaging company, there is a lot that those servers are doing besides communication, they are streaming a real time changing 3D world, and making objects react differently processing the code that is built on them and obeying the physics of the world. they may be focusing their power more on the visual aspect than in the transmission of messages.

i agree that applying the cap rule to only bots can be bypassed by not registering accounts as bots and making them send the messages to groups.

 

---

Like I said the OP thinks they are a privileged class.  This is not about communicating.  This is about spamming. The OP stated:

"The current policy might have been needed but i tghink all in all the capped should be raised a lil each time to test the fields on people who pay good money for bots and so gorth to spam for there Breedables Sex products Escorts what ever they use it for.. in the long run your actually hurting yourself by the limit to be honest."  (my bolding).

The OP will get no sympathy from me.

[Canoro Philipp]

i see spam as a form of communication. it is transferring a message with the objetcive that others will see it and hopefully do something about the message. i am aware of the problems that spam causes, we have been suffering from spam here in the forums for a long time, trying to decieve users to go to a place that will harm them. i agree that there should be measures to protect users from that, and one of them is the cap limit that Linden Lab applied.

i dont see him as trying to get more benefits than others, he just dont see much sense in limiting the messages, for example, there may be groups with more than 5000 members, that means that not everybody in the group will recieve the well intentioned message, and the owner of the benefitial group will be limited to 1 message a day.

is this how it works? if the owner of a group send a message to its 6000 group members only 5000 will recieve the message and the account of the owner will be in trouble because it is considered spam?

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

i see spam as a form of communication. it is transferring a message with the objetcive that others will see it and hopefully do something about the message. i am aware of the problems that spam causes, we have been suffering from spam here in the forums for a long time, trying to decieve users to go to a place that will harm them. i agree that there should be measures to protect users from that, and one of them is the cap limit that Linden Lab applied.

i dont see him as trying to get more benefits than others, he just dont see much sense in limiting the messages, for example, there may be groups with more than 5000 members, that means that not everybody in the group will recieve the well intentioned message, and the owner of the benefitial group will be limited to 1 message a day.

is this how it works? if the owner of a group send a message to its 6000 group members only 5000 will recieve the message and the account of the owner will be in trouble because it is considered spam?

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My understanding, which is imperfect, is that if an actual human account logs in and sends a notice to the group it will work as well (or poorly) as it ever has regardless of the number of members. The limits are more for automatic systems - there are systems that will automatically message everyone who has ever bought something from a store despite their never having opted in to these messages, and there are systems that will send messages to just about anybody - I recently got annoyed by one that was sending out messages about a store I never had any contact with and flew up to find a half-dozen little black cubes that were merrily sending out messages one by one non-stop.

[Canoro Philipp]

i see, well, i hope that with this limitation merchants that have been using this system will adapt and resume what they want to say in one single message per day, one offer per day can be enough.

[Sid Foxglove]

im not asking for sympathy , and im not going to fix my typos either, if you dont like it thats tough, i simply stated that LL should raise there cap, noone said anything about Secondlife or LL being a message Comapny, stop being illerate when you dont know what it is i am speaking about, its all called infrastructure go learn it...

 

the truth of a matter is you need better hardware and a betterinfrasturcture to handle overloads, instead of making a few improvements why not invest to make things better then making it worst , this is about customer base, and keeping your intrest up, do i think Lindens Labs reads the post, your bet your ass i think they do, why have a forum if they have noone looking it over, they post on it so what makes you think they dont see it...

To be perfectly im not here ranting on you , i ranting on a campnay we all came to enjoy, to better themselves not only for them but for you as well, you can resolve bottle knecking if you do it right,!

[Sid Foxglove]

and yes thats my point, humans will spam just as much see why i said its stupoid they limit to just 5k per day ... what are they going to do limit people who pay them momey... Claps now add that to your the rest of what i was stating

 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

... i dont think it ruins anyones expreince in any nature to get a invite to a group or maybe getting a lil spam...

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I beg to differ. To be perfectly honest.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

i dont think it ruins anyones expreince in any nature to get a invite to a group or maybe getting a lil spam

 

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You only speak for yourself,  I for one, and most everyone I know,  hates spam and gets way too much of it and it does have a negative effect on our SL experience.  I cheered LL when I heard of this restriction.  Since this policy went into effect I am getting noticeably less spam.  A good thing.

[Orca Flotta]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

i dont think it ruins anyones expreince in any nature to get a invite to a group or maybe getting a lil spam

 

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Only speaking for myself now: getting one bot generated spam message and I leave the group. And I guess I'm not the only one. Nothing worse than receiving unwanted advertising while busy doing something more useful. Well, there's a workaround fro many of us: just set that yourself up so you won't get any messages from certain groups.

Best solution tho: ban the friggin bots from SL once and for all. They are just eating resources and don't produce anything useful in the way of developing SL.

[Sid Foxglove]

you can beg to differ all you like, you can cheer you can do this you can do that, but when you have a bussiness where you might like to not hore people to spam your little group for breedables or what ever, its a good service to have, who are you to judge people who may need it, your a small group prob not even paying memebers, who comment and complain, it dont ruin anyomnes expreince if it ruins your exprience then the group if its that bad, but its people like you who false report negative influence on stupid random stuff, and also its the other users faults who own them for all that added spam because they had more then one bot spamming the groups, like i said sure add a cap but raise the cap, thats all im saying, if you dont like it then dont comment, thats pretty plaibn blunt and simple guys, take your clue

[Orca Flotta]

So you  replied to yourself and made some ignorant assumptions about yourself. OMG, if that wasn't the most stupid post I've seen today ... :smileysurprised:

Further, if that undecipherable wishywashy was in fact directed at me, I'm not judging people who might need your bot service, I just can't figure out what for they'd need it. Everybody is free to spam their own groups as much as they fancy, but for that one won't need a bot. So the spam bots are only useful for spamming groups you don't own. And I've seen and witnessed those spam attacks  often enough to know what a negative impact they have on the integrity of the group and how disturbing they are for the members.

Couldn't figure out the rest of your "arguement" so I'll leave it at that.

[Perrie Juran]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

im not asking for sympathy , and im not going to fix my typos either, if you dont like it thats tough, i simply stated that LL should raise there cap, noone said anything about Secondlife or LL being a message Comapny, stop being illerate when you dont know what it is i am speaking about, its all called infrastructure go learn it...

 

the truth of a matter is you need better hardware and a betterinfrasturcture to handle overloads, instead of making a few improvements why not invest to make things better then making it worst , this is about customer base, and keeping your intrest up, do i think Lindens Labs reads the post, your bet your ass i think they do, why have a forum if they have noone looking it over, they post on it so what makes you think they dont see it...

To be perfectly im not here ranting on you , i ranting on a campnay we all came to enjoy, to better themselves not only for them but for you as well, you can resolve bottle knecking if you do it right,!

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Why should LL have to take steps to accomodate YOUR SPAM.

Maybe you joined SL in order to spam people but I sure did not join to get spammed.

Spam is an abuse of resources and even if LL had more than sufficient resources to accomodate it they would be right in putting a stop to it.

What is really sad, what really sucks, is the amount of resources that have to be devoted to dealing with Spam.

Internet wide 70% of E Mails are categorized as Spam.  See link and link.

And while your few megabytes of data in SL may only be a tiny drop in the bucket, they are still a drop in the bucket.

You are just part of a problem that is detrimental to everyone's use and enjoyment of the Internet and of SL.  So you can take your Spam and shove it.

If you want to make money in SL, find a more legitimate endeavor, one that enhances everyone's experience to devote your energies too.  But quit spamming us.

[Vania Chaplin]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

you can beg to differ all you like, you can cheer you can do this you can do that, but when you have a bussiness where you might like to not hore people to spam your little group for breedables or what ever, its a good service to have, who are you to judge people who may need it, your a small group prob not even paying memebers, who comment and complain, it dont ruin anyomnes expreince if it ruins your exprience then the group if its that bad, but its people like you who false report negative influence on stupid random stuff, and also its the other users faults who own them for all that added spam because they had more then one bot spamming the groups, like i said sure add a cap but raise the cap, thats all im saying, if you dont like it then dont comment, thats pretty plaibn blunt and simple guys, take your clue

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No, Mr Policeman, I didn't kill the guy, I just pressed the gun's trigger, the gun fired the bullet, the bullet killed them.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

you can beg to differ all you like, you can cheer you can do this you can do that, but when you have a bussiness where you might like to not hore people to spam your little group for breedables or what ever, its a good service to have, who are you to judge people who may need it, your a small group prob not even paying memebers, who comment and complain, it dont ruin anyomnes expreince if it ruins your exprience then the group if its that bad, but its people like you who false report negative influence on stupid random stuff, and also its the other users faults who own them for all that added spam because they had more then one bot spamming the groups, like i said sure add a cap but raise the cap, thats all im saying, if you dont like it then dont comment, thats pretty plaibn blunt and simple guys, take your clue

---

Who are we? The people who get the spam who don't want it.  Who are you to determine that your needs out weigh ours or make assumptions on who are paying members? FYI many who have replied are.  If you don't like the comments you got back on your post, don't post here.  Once you post it is everyone's right to state their opinion.  You don't own the forum or the thread.

[Tiffy Vella]

I applaud this move to cut down on spambots. As a business owner, and as a private resident I believe it's entirely beneficial.

Spam reduces the effectiveness of all of our communication. Group members become fatigued at the mass of notices, most of which probably won't interest them, some of which will. I send notices to my group, (and to a few others which are designed for this reason) whenever I have new releases, about every fortnight at the most, usually monthly, sometimes less. I'm well aware that most of these probably aren't read in other groups, as some merchants post multiple times a day in some groups. Customers stop reading notices and leave groups due to spam. It's not beneficial.

Advertising to people who want to hear your message is the best advertising. It's harder to do because it requires a little forethought. Spammers don't care about this, as they are interested only in delivering as many messages as possible for as little cost and effort as possible. It's lazy.

You say "i dont think it ruins anyones expreince in any nature to get a invite to a group or maybe getting a lil spam as long as that group is valid for spam". To this I respond, like others here, that you do not speak for me on this point. It ruins MY experience. And I find that spammers tend to see every opportunity as "valid".

 

[Czari Zenovka]

Well said, Tiffy, and I add my voice to the others that have posted saying they do not like receiving spam.   I, too, will leave a group if it gets too spammy and if I absolutely have to be in the group for some reason then I turn off group notices.

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

Well to be perfectly honest i think Linden Labs made it a little unfair to people who run a business on bot's to spam groups and invitations and Group chat's, to be perfectly honest LL makes a lot of money of people off Mainland sales and Private Regions, to  be honest, lets be realistic they make money er regardless of even selling lands, by meberships and also every market sell as well, maybe not as much but they are making there money and eating it too.

 

You guys come to the conclusion that to many logins and group notices sent over loaded your server, well i might have to agree with a major server crash then once fixed everything logins and spams like crap.... i cant understand this, and if people are going to complain they need to blame them selves for having so many bots to spam the same group repeatly... or spam multi groups, you are the real reason why the policy had to be put in place, but it is also LL's problem to for not keeping up with the current Strand on over loading servers , and bottleknecking to help calm thing's as a company you should have to be prepared for such things, i dont think it ruins anyones expreince in any nature to get a invite to a group or maybe getting a lil spam as long as that group is valid for spam, limiting it to 5k per day is a little stupid as most bigger groups hold more then 5k people, you can do better then this Linden labs or your just not a very good company, one or the other, i am not trying to flame you guy's but lets get realistic here,l as for staters playing oonline games is fun and exciting to anyone, this is what i would call a MMROPG and Secondlife be anything you want Fantasy , people often think games have to have goal's in it or some capture the flag, but with no common sense that these people have to not really see what it really is, and the objective is have fun, abnd be what ever you want to be that you wouldnt be in Real Life, other say its oonline community, well every Game has an online Speakable feature as wlel like a local chat and trades etc. you interact with people on a daily basis almost the same..

 

The current policy might have been needed but i tghink all in all the capped should be raised a lil each time to test the fields on people who pay good money for bots and so gorth to spam for there Breedables Sex products Escorts what ever they use it for.. in the long run your actually hurting yourself by the limit to be honest.

 

i mean if were me your groups and everything else will still get over loaded why, hiring people to do the spam, what are you going to do next limit the paid subscribers and people who buy things that keep money in your pocket? its just a little wise to say you should really rais the cap, and not limit per people that gets notice but instead limit the amount of groups notcies per day .. like to 5 or 8 per day to send to each and every group for bots just an idea LL to help you guys out and that way you dont lose any customers and keep people happy other wise you might lose more people then you might expect!

---

I was quite interested in what you had to say, but once I struggled through almost half of what you had written, I realized that your ability to actually convey what you were trying to say would never rise above your apparent inability to punctuate, use correct grammar or even formulate a sentence in a coherent manner... therefore, I was forced to give up.

Cheers ...Dres

[Perrie Juran]

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Tiffy Vella wrote:

I applaud this move to cut down on spambots. As a business owner, and as a private resident I believe it's entirely beneficial.

Spam reduces the effectiveness of

all

of our communication. Group members become fatigued at the mass of notices, most of which probably won't interest them, some of which will. I send notices to my group, (and to a few others which are designed for this reason) whenever I have new releases, about every fortnight at the most, usually monthly, sometimes less. I'm well aware that most of these probably aren't read in other groups, as some merchants post multiple times a day in some groups. Customers

stop reading notices and leave groups due to spam.

It's not beneficial.

Advertising to people who want to hear your message is the best advertising. It's harder to do because it requires a little forethought. Spammers don't care about this, as they are interested only in delivering as many messages as possible for as little cost and effort as possible. It's lazy.

You say "i dont think it ruins anyones expreince in any nature to get a invite to a group or maybe getting a lil spam as long as that group is valid for spam". To this I respond, like others here, that you do not speak for me on this point. It ruins MY experience. And I find that spammers tend to see

every

opportunity as "valid".

 

---

Well said.

I have messages and notices turned off in almost all of my groups now because of this glut.

It becomes almost impossible to bump pixels in peace if you don't and the whole system becomes a waste if the huge majority turn off the messages. 

While Store owners want my business, while Club owners want my attendance, the quickest way to lose it is by sending too many messages and notices.  It jusy gets old very fast.

[Ima Rang]

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Sid Foxglove wrote:

im not asking for sympathy , and im not going to fix my typos either, if you dont like it thats tough, i simply stated that LL should raise there cap, noone said anything about Secondlife or LL being a message Comapny,

stop being illerate

when you dont know what it is i am speaking about, its all called infrastructure go learn it...

 

 

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It is going to be a fantastic year!!

[KarenMichelle Lane]

Basic Facts of Life:

Information from a friend - May be noise but I'll deal with it.

Information from my favorite Store - Awesome!

Information from a Group I'm in - Useful until I get annoyed from the get-around to Group Messaging [which I can legitimately turn off] by the use of Bots that use chat and the urge to press the Leave Group button exceeds the need to be in the "now damned" group.  Priceless!

Carry On....