using bots to target and bann targeted other land groups to gain people

[Drake1 Nightfire]

There are a few sims that offer 7 seas fishing for articles of clothing to make a full set. I have sat my av there for hours to get a full outfit. I would set to auto cast and auto accept and go do dishes or watch a movie. Would that be considered a traffic bot?

[Phil Deakins]

Not in my opinion, Drake, and, I believe, not in the opinion of almost all people. Apart from that, your av is not on your own land during those periods, so it can't be trying to increase your traffic count.

Back when the rules about traffic gaming came out, there were a few who had the opinion that such unattended avatars should be registered for the period they were unattended, but that was an extreme view. The most common cases were those who put their avs to bed, leaving them logged in, and went to bed themselves, and those who parked their avs in their business premises while they were off doing other things. But none of those avs were scripted agents, so none of them needed to be registered as such.

I don't use bots any more for anything but I do have two avatars logged in with viewers while I'm awake and in the house. I use one to watch the store, using my remote camera controller, and the other is me. Much of the time I'm not at the keyboard, but neither avatar is a scripted agent and neither is registered as such, and neither breaks any rules.

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Not in my opinion, Drake, and, I believe, not in the opinion of almost all people. Apart from that, your av is not on your own land during those periods, so it can't be trying to increase your traffic count.

Back when the rules about traffic gaming came out, there were a few who had the opinion that such unattended avatars should be registered for the period they were unattended, but that was an extreme view. The most common cases were those who put their avs to bed, leaving them logged in, and went to bed themselves, and those who parked their avs in their business premises while they were off doing other things. But none of those avs were scripted agents, so none of them needed to be registered as such.

I don't use bots any more for anything but I do have two avatars logged in with viewers while I'm awake and in the house. I use one to watch the store, using my remote camera controller, and the other is me. Much of the time I'm not at the keyboard, but neither avatar is a scripted agent and neither is registered as such, and neither breaks any rules.

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I never followed the Traffic debate closely, a lot of that went on about the time I started SL.

Malls had pose balls set with mopping or scrubbing the floors on hands and knees that you could make a whopping $1L for setting on for 10 minutes.  Nudist beaches had sunbathing.  Sex rooms had sex poses you could park on and any one passing by could **bleep** the parked Ava.  I myself could never wrap my head around the idea of **bleeping** an AFK Avatar.

Really, my first experience was with a free apartment I had found.  The SIM had several of these and I would use one for sorting all the freebies I had got.  It was quite a surprise to me the first time I got "payed" for being there.  I had no idea what was going on, knew nothing about camping or traffic and all the related issues.  I was just happy to have a place I could use.

But then the gaming traffic rules happened and places to camp dried up substantially.  I was never into it myself but knew people who were very avid campers.

[Phil Deakins]

I've done a little bit of camping in my time - why not if you're not doing anything else. It was good for many people. The best bit of camping I did was in a club that had a couple of dancing pads. The pads paid 1L every 5 minutes you were on, and it actuially paid every 5 minues instead off paying you the total when you got off.

So I was on a pad one day, happily earning 1L every 5 minutes, when the sim crashed (froze). I relogged to my home but the pad kept on paying me and there was nothing i could do to stop it. At the end of the day, while it was still paying me, I logged out and went to bed. The next day i got up and logged in again. The pad had been paying all night and it wa still paying me. Later that day, it stopped. The don't make camping like that any more lol

[jujmental]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

I've done a little bit of camping in my time - why not if you're not doing anything else. It was good for many people. The best bit of camping I did was in a club that had a couple of dancing pads. The pads paid 1L every 5 minutes you were on, and it actuially paid every 5 minues instead off paying you the total when you got off.

So I was on a pad one day, happily earning 1L every 5 minutes, when the sim crashed (froze). I relogged to my home but the pad kept on paying me and there was nothing i could do to stop it. At the end of the day, while it was still paying me, I logged out and went to bed. The next day i got up and logged in again. The pad had been paying all night and it wa still paying me. Later that day, it stopped. The don't make camping like that any more lol

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This sounds like just the sort of in-depth human interest - but with both commercial and humorous dimensions - story that hard-hitting journalists from the SL Enquirer are desperately searching for. I nearly laughed.

© The Judge

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

This is not the first time the Region in question has come up in the Forum.  There was a thread about six months ago.  There may have been others but that is the one I know.

At the time I decided to take a look for myself.  There were a lot of what I will describe as "Lifeless Avatars" there.  Whether they were Bots or not I can not say though my suspicion is they all were.

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What is critical for me here is these bots list themselves as traffic bots. So they claim to be violating the TOS. In every other case - people are just guessing.

LLs considers it a privacy thing that you can't spot a scripted agent - which baffles me.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

This is not the first time the Region in question has come up in the Forum.  There was a thread about six months ago.  There may have been others but that is the one I know.

At the time I decided to take a look for myself.  There were a lot of what I will describe as "Lifeless Avatars" there.  Whether they were Bots or not I can not say though my suspicion is they all were.

---

What is critical for me here is these bots list themselves as traffic bots. So they claim to be violating the TOS. In every other case - people are just guessing.

LLs considers it a privacy thing that you can't spot a scripted agent - which baffles me.

 

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Now that would be an interesting question: 

What would happen if I registered myself as a 'scripted agent?' 

Oh, and do you know a specific place that LL states it is a 'privacy issue?'

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Oh, and do you know a specific place that LL states it is a 'privacy issue?'

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No sadly I don't. That's a rephrasing of what I was told by a linden who is no more long ago when I asked "can you tell me if those folks are scripted agents so I don't keep ARing legit bots?" Which was in regards to bots somewhere other than the ones I've been using as an example.

In this case - I got back originally that the bot I'd AR'd was a scripted agent. So I replied with an "Oh" and then something like the above. A few years back so details are fuzzy... but I was more or less told I was not allowed to know that and that they'd kind of goofed in telling me about the specific bot...

 

I would think they'd want us knowing in a crystal clear manner that a bot is registered. If I operated registered bots I'd want people to know - so I wouldn't have to wonder if I was missing IMs being sent to them... I want some clear note on them, and then a followup to tell people to forward stuff on to me. Heck, I'd love an IM sent to one to auto-reply back with "I'm a bot registered to Pussycat Catnap, your message has been forwarded to her, thank you and hope to get back to you soon."

But then I don't operate any of them. For all the things that I've ever seen them in SL, the purpose has seemed uneeded (give me a sign to touch for a notecard, or a free demo I can see on my own avatar, for example).

 

[tcservices1]

well the problem remains un avaided. this rivery sim, is still prebanning land groups not the individual, that they feel is a threat or a competitive popular sim, to them. the owner uses a script bot to harass other sims he has on his list or tells his staff to ban anyone who visits my land to get a tag to use my stuff. in a way plain harassing my sim. and everyone comes here complaining. or they stop coming to my land because they visited here once using sploders and other lagit bots.. I feel that if a rivery sim Tells me who I see and tries to control them not to go to other sims. they do not like is wrong. and harassment should be a topic linden labs should look into. I still get complaints with the sim hopers that they get banned just because they visited mine from specific and now other sims. making scripts to preban them so as to punish them for going to other sims. people constantly tell me that they got banned because they had my land group in their profile. on said rival sim. mentioned with regret.  but I today put money on my sploder and did the proper ligit thing and they had been prebanned by them just for going to get lindens. I hear this daily. and I pay a lot of money to have a sim. but to be harassed and prebanned to sim hopers is wrong in my book. like people to go sim hoping. and I do not care if they weare other tags. for some nubies do not know to change tags and it is not fair. so prebanning land groups for no reson. so why are they allowing prebanning land groups. and staff was told to band them or get fired?

[Perrie Juran]

Every SIM owner, including you, has an absolute right, as long as it does not violate the rules regarding intolerance,  to decide who can access their SIM.

While we may not personally or individually like or agree with the reasons, it is the SIM owners right.

End of story.

 

[tcservices1]

ow this is geting serious. this rivery sim has over 200 unregistered bots going out from there and they send them out to steel lindens un ethical targeting i linden voteboxes. we sat there wondering why we keep geting complaints from region owners about them. the problem still remains. they are set public but they are on top destination chat in sl. and they have systematicaly have a auto group reader they out in the land. and anyome that visits the rivery lands they deem gets traffic they bann them. but two days ago we had a huge unregistered bot farm come one every 15 seconds land on my land go strait to my votebos hit it twice then poof. i imediatly 0ed my traffic voteboxes and reported them one by one. un avaded by second life they are not even looking into it. so i traced it to where it went and it went to 6 other sims doing same thing then endede to my said rivery sim and went off line. i was hit for two days all day. i thought bots were not to go out and get on other peoples land and hit vote boxes. and the ones they targeted and fought back were ip banned by their group readers. i hear plenty of psim owners quiting and realy mad they are pre banning other lands. and be public in the destinations list hotspots.  but since the second life people have not responded to this. the region owners banned them and the list of bots we found. from a lot of regions. they even banned their region owners with this group landscripts and banned them as well. so what is there to do there is alot of people geting mad and quiting because they can not get traffic but a bunch of steeling bots.?

i had to log everyone coming in and cross check every one. found so far over 200 unregistered avitar bots doing this. and it is not the only sim doing it.

 

[tcservices1]

now i can and mentioning the name if requested. this is totaly wronk. a person just came to get lindens from my sploder which is set as group only hasnever been to you know who. and had my land group i even changed and made a new group. and  to test this. she just had my new group tag with my land keys in her group list. she was going there for a while. and everyoe that got my tag in their group list was banned. she said she is mad that the owners would purposly bann rivery lands as punishment for visiting it. i seem to be geting no where. these guys are harassing mine and 6 other groups. she asked why she was banned they said that she was sending troles there. so did other lands say the same thing saying their covernment. says they can prebann other land groups. so why do thay again have tons of unregistered bots geting the sl hotspot high and then banning anyone who sim hops or goes to their rivery group lands. i need an answer this has gone on long enough. there has to be a rul that they can not ban people that have rivery groups in their group lists. i thought that was a blatent harassment from them. and un ethical. also it gets people not to go to the rivery group lands afraid of geting banned. when we did nothing to them but build a sim. and the owners came in looked around grabbed my land tag from my on my land yes on my land and went systematicaly banning everyone that was on it. and then set a bot there to prebann anyone else.

it is good but they keep harassing mine and other lands doing this. and they are public. using the traffic stats to get the ajenda people will go look and then they get punished for having visited other rivery lands. this is a shame they are doing this.

 

[Drake1 Nightfire]

They are not harassing you.

Anyone can bann anyone from their land whenever they want.  I have never met you inworld, but if I chose to do so, I could bann you from my land never even have ever seen you. Hell, I could open search, type in a group name, go through the listed member and bann them all.

My only question to you is... WHY DO YOU CARE~!!

They are obviuosly idiots, who wants to go there if they act like this. Let it go.

[tcservices1]

the fact is bots should not be counted in any stats, or go out in other peoples lands and cheet the lindengivers. and poof.

 

[tcservices1]

aperently this guy must be working with tham. the point is they are cheeting the stats and using it outright to harass using banning land group script banners. on rivery sims. making a sim owners war. which should not be.

i now see why youtube and everyone i know is upset with land group banning and using stats to get onlookers traped in this land war.

 

[tcservices1]

by the way i have a huge list of unregistered bots i gave to linden labs of these bots going to my land geting lindens. i put out a visitor tracker and took the list cross referenced it found them in two sims. one went down after the bot owners found me tagging the bots coming in steeling. the others had beenbaned by linden labs.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

LL probably will do nothing because a sim owner can ban anyone for any reason or no reason at all.

Some observations

Remove the voteboxes from your land.  They don't do anything other than contribute to lag.  They haven't worked for years. 

Make your group by invitation only at least until they stop sending bots. Your staff can hand out tags.  They can chat with the person enough tell if they are bots by asking them something a bot wouldn't be able to answer and changing the question frequently.

Stop paying people to come to your venue.  Provide a quality experience to attract people instead.  I know from years of experience that people coming just for the L's don't do you any good.  They rarely tip your staff or the venue.  If you want to have events and offer prizes, offer gift cards or other things instead.  If you really want to offer cash, keep the amounts low so it doesn't attract contest ho's and bots.

If people complain to you about being banned from another place, tell them to complain to whoever banned them not you. Ask them why they want to go someplace where they are banned simply because they are members of another group. 

 

[tcservices1]

this is true. they complain to them but they will not stop prebaning my land group. most of them left there anyway and scatered out elsewhere.. i realy do not care what they do. it is their land. i found a beter way to stop the bot invasion. like you said. i did take down those wasted things. and moved on. also to help i changed my group. leting them complain to them. i just advertise. more. and beter results. they are mad at them. the idiots will still band them on other lands doing same group thing. so why have groups if they target and ban whole groups. i put an abrupt stop to the stuff when i desolved the group and used other means like skype and fb. lol

this is probably last rant i do. figured out how to do this outside sl. and it works beter. let them kill their own sims. i will not alow them to take me down. others say same thing. drop group, use other means and it works.

[Canoro Philipp]

if the limits of how many people you can ban is 500, you and others can make 500 disposable alts, give them your group tag, visit the rival sim, and their number of people they can ban will be full, they will be unable to continue banning people, they will have to start unbanning people, not knowing which ones are griefers.

[Phil Deakins]

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tcservices1 wrote:

by the way i have a huge list of unregistered bots

i gave to linden labs of these bots going to my land geting lindens. i put out a visitor tracker and took the list cross referenced it found them in two sims. one went down after the bot owners found me tagging the bots coming in steeling. the others had beenbaned by linden labs.

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What makes you think that? You have no way of knowing whether or not an avatar is registered as a bot. They may all be registered.

[tcservices1]

There the fact remains. i got this list because they sent them out and they came to my land. Also they are violating tos section 6 rules

6.2 You agree that you will not post or transmit Content or code that

may be harmful, impede other users' functionality, invade other users'

privacy, or surreptitiously or negatively impact any system or

network.

You agree to respect both the integrity of the Service and the privacy

of other users. You will not:

(i) Post or transmit viruses, Trojan horses, worms, spyware, time

bombs, cancelbots, or other computer programming routines that may

harm the Service or interests or rights of other users, or that may

harvest or collect any data or information about other users without

their consent;

6.3 Additional rules of conduct apply to users of Second Life:

In addition to the rules set forth in Sections 6.1 and 6.2 above, you

agree that you will not:
 (i) Use robots or other automated means to increase traffic to any

Virtual Land;

(ii) Operate or profit from a "game of chance". For more information

please see our Gambling Policy;

 

just look at the hotspot list chat spot it is there plain as day. Then they ban anyone that has a rivery group. They do not like.

end of story. tos tells it all. And everyone knows they are doing it. ll is doing nothing.

 

[tcservices1]

well here is a sad story about this subject. i  looked over my finances and see i am dishing out over 700+ dollars a month just to try to have a public full sim. and to have some idiots come on my land grab my tags and using bots on their land to get gaming stats and tell them not to go to my land and i now know 40 other rivery sims. the people are confused. and new do not know what to think. when i did nothing to them but aply art i learned over the 40 years. i complain. report the harassment. and get boycoted becase i helped others report the wrong doings. no onw will visit my land in feet they would be boycoted as well. in fact they now have taken me down. most people say it is not fair they are using bots and prebaning everyone who visits other lands but theres. then using bots to cheet the stats as well. my rant is over and so is about 40 other sim renters. they feel it is not worth geting a sim then geting harassed by these two guys. who use the bots and use privacy violations to bann people. i would rather spend 700 dolars on something else than being harassed almost daily by their punishung bann bots. section 6 has it all. and i report it and nothing but them harassing back more. and i lose all the hard work. the estate owners feel the same. the bots need to go. that uses them to target other sims.

[Innula Zenovka]

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tcservices1 wrote:

well here is a sad story about this subject. i  looked over my finances and see i am dishing out over 700+ dollars a month just to try to have a public full sim.

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How on earth does a sim cost you "over 700+ dollars a month"?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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tcservices1 wrote:

well here is a sad story about this subject. i  looked over my finances and see i am dishing out over 700+ dollars a month just to try to have a public full sim. and to have some idiots come on my land grab my tags and using bots on their land to get gaming stats and tell them not to go to my land and i now know 40 other rivery sims. the people are confused. and new do not know what to think. when i did nothing to them but aply art i learned over the 40 years. i complain. report the harassment. and get boycoted becase i helped others report the wrong doings. no onw will visit my land in feet they would be boycoted as well. in fact they now have taken me down. most people say it is not fair they are using bots and prebaning everyone who visits other lands but theres. then using bots to cheet the stats as well. my rant is over and so is about 40 other sim renters. they feel it is not worth geting a sim then geting harassed by these two guys. who use the bots and use privacy violations to bann people. i would rather spend 700 dolars on something else than being harassed almost daily by their punishung bann bots. section 6 has it all. and i report it and nothing but them harassing back more. and i lose all the hard work. the estate owners feel the same. the bots need to go. that uses them to target other sims.

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You know what i don't understand? How we can get to 74 posts without having this thread pulled for naming and shaming a sim with only your word they are doing this. Where is your proof these "bots" are operated by the owners of said sim?

Also, section 6 of the ToS has nothing to do with your issue. There is NOTHING in the ToS that restricts baning people from a sim. If i make a bot and have it go to each and every other sim and bann everyone it meets from my land, that is my choice to do so. I really don't get how this hurts you at all. You own sim A, the "bots" are coming from sim B and banning your group members from sim B. So, they can go to your sim but not the other... And this is a problem how?

Like we have said, ignore them. Make your group invite only. Move on with your SL.

[tcservices1]

ok you have not read the and understood the pont. they have a huge bot farm on their sim. cheeting the gaming hotspot stats like chat hotspot. ok. which people like to sim hop. looking around. but when they get there mine and other sim hoppers have their rivery sim losted in their groups. they join another land group to use sploders club boards ect. then they return there and their bot will read the group list see it then ban them from their land making the sim hoppers mad. they leave not going back. but come back to the rivery sim complaining. as they complain to them why. they say trols ect. the thing is people are afraid to visit rivery sims now knowingthey might get banned elsewhere and they are mad at them and the rivery sim. who did nothing to them. and to get the traffic they cheet the destination hotspot in sl.

in a way they hurt them selves, pay for all that advertising. clog up lag their sims. with the bots. but they hurt rivery sims with a unethical mind game. also will lie about the other sims to try to control them. this is what i ment. i am not the only one complaining. but the prebanning and destination stats are compromized by the, they need to stop using bots to cheet the stats. as for the rest the are paying for huge advertising, but banning the other sims. they do not like. or feel is beter. i am kinda glad they are doing this let them spend the moneys.  as for the 700+  go convert 20,000 lindens a week. and all the stuff for clubs ect. it ads up alot.