jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Incessant whining about trolls is the perfect troll bait... I rest my case. ...Dres The OP has already been found guilty in my court of Flaming, in almost exactly the terms it is expressed in by the Guidelines. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Storm Clarence wrote: We aren't in kindergarten. Ah Storm ... from my point of view the forum is often a kindergarten and this thread in particular... see... we even have a poor baby playing to be a judge without even doing it well.... while it would be prob funny at first, this kind of joke become soon so kiddish that its boring and no more fun. So really, im afraid your sentence is wrong.. Not that i wouldnt like you are right, but definitely, as soon as some ppl here want to have a serious discussion in peace, we see some ppl with a big urge of laughing and playing kid games coming here and then disturb the discussion. You know ? like when adults have to discuss smth important and then you see a bunch of babies just hijacking the adults at every seconds.... i bet, this is why parents dont bring their kids with them at their rl work eh ? So, i prob differ a bit with Phil opinion about trolls... its not they are really hurting ... (can a kid really hurt ?) but they are boring, disturbing and often a pain.... As far as i know.. there are often threads for fun and humor... why so coming into serious threads and just disturb ? oh yes, i know, thats more fun.... indeed.. but then dont complain when serious adults says "hush" to the kids... that's fair enough. however... while i also can enjoy humor (often), i usually dont enjoy the fun when its at the expenses of ppl pointing their weaknessess... come on, we all have some weaknesses, some things that can hurt us more than the usual, even if we are not usually oversensitve... playing with this is just pointless and mean. The one who is in position to mock sm1 today can be the one who will be mocked tomorrow.. Dont forget this.... Treat others as you want to be treaten. I think its a base for being part of a community.. otherwise we can also go live as ermit in the mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Treat others as you want to be treaten. To the charge of total lack of comprehension, and an associated charge of incoherence: GUILTY Obiter Dicta: Deportation and repatriation is recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Incessant whining about trolls is the perfect troll bait... I rest my case. ...Dres Interesting point and observation, Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinity Yazimoto Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 jujmental wrote: Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Treat others as you want to be treaten. To the charge of total lack of comprehension, and an associated charge of incoherence: GUILTY Obiter Dicta: Deportation and repatriation is recommended. and for you i recommend a good spanking and go in bed without dessert . no need to answer, kid, i dont have time for playing the babysitter with you.. i have 10 years old kids who are waiting for me in a school class in RL and really, i find them so much mature than some babies here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: jujmental wrote: Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Treat others as you want to be treaten. To the charge of total lack of comprehension, and an associated charge of incoherence: GUILTY Obiter Dicta: Deportation and repatriation is recommended. and for you i recommend a good spanking and go in bed without dessert . no need to answer, kid, i dont have time for playing the babysitter with you.. i have 10 years old kids who are waiting for me in a school class in RL and really, i find them so much mature than some babies here.. Those that can, do; those that can't, teach; those that can't teach, teach kids under 11. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: Incessant whining about trolls is the perfect troll bait... I rest my case. ...Dres Interesting point and observation, Dres On the charge of being first responder to the OP: GUILTY. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 jujmental wrote: Dresden Ceriano wrote: Incessant whining about trolls is the perfect troll bait... I rest my case. ...Dres The OP has already been found guilty in my court of Flaming, in almost exactly the terms it is expressed in by the Guidelines. The Judge Well, since that's been adjudicated, I'll just pop some corn and enjoy the show. ...Dres P.S. IBTL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanya Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I am going to start counting now.. One.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanya Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: Storm Clarence wrote: We aren't in kindergarten. So, i prob differ a bit with Phil opinion about trolls... its not they are really hurting ... (can a kid really hurt ?) but they are boring, disturbing and often a pain.... As far as i know.. there are often threads for fun and humor... why so coming into serious threads and just disturb ? oh yes, i know, thats more fun.... indeed.. but then dont complain when serious adults says "hush" to the kids... that's fair enough. ^^ I don't understand how people can be hurting here, I suppose some do but these posters are really not significant in their lives so I don't understand it. BUT, why do those start jumping out and coming to the threads to disturb.. and they think no one knows what they are doing lol. You know, the irrelvant post that has nothing to do with the OP but anoer poster's comments Truly boring, but I will admit sometimes they catch me at a time where I find it amusing to play their game. Shame on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Trinity Yazimoto wrote: So, i prob differ a bit with Phil opinion about trolls... its not they are really hurting Usually they don't much, if at all, but sometimes they badly hurt people. He himself posted a link to an old forum thread in which he caused one person to leave completely and another to react so much that he himself was hurt by it. And he is known to have reduced people to tears, and caused others to leave the forum. We can do without any of that. We can do without anyone intentionally winding people's emotions up, even if it's only to relatively mild anger or annoyance. There's no need for trying to arouse people's negative emotions. If we get wound up during genuine discussions/debates/arguments, ok, but to do it intentionally is despicable. ETA: Sometimes people resort to insults during arguments. There is no need for it but it can be understandable. But we not talking about those occasions. We are talking about someone who does it intentionally, and without an argument building up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanya Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: Trinity Yazimoto wrote: So, i prob differ a bit with Phil opinion about trolls... its not they are really hurting Usually they don't much, if at all, but sometimes they badly hurt people. He himself posted a link to an old forum thread in which he caused one person to leave completely and another to react so much that he himself was hurt by it. And he is known to have reduced people to tears, and caused other to leave the forum. We can do without any of that. We can do without anyone intentionally winding people's emotions up, even if it's only to relatively mild anger or annoyance. There's no need for it at all. You may want to take a look at other people too. He is not the only one that does that on this forum. I can't agree with emotions only because i don't understand how that happenes here on a forum, I do agree with annoyance and trying to bait people then calling them a troll. I refer back to your 1st reply to me: "There is a lot of truth in what you say, Malanya. People accuse others of trolling when they are not, and it happens quite often here." It's like a domino effect on some threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Anger and annoyance are emotions. Being reduced to tears is an emotion. To the best of my knowledge, he is the only one left who aims at causing those reactions in people. There used to be others. Not many, but not just him. If there are others in the forum who do it, I'm not aware of them. It happens quite often here that a person accuses someone of being a troll. It's because they are getting wound up by not having their view agreed with. Other people resort to insults. The people they accuse are not trolls though. In this discussion I'm talking about one person who intentionally writes things with the intention of winding another person up. That is being a troll. It's what a troll does. It sometimes becomes like a domino effect when he keeps on and on and on, and simply doesn't stop, and especially when his few friends join in. In a forum we can expect anger to rise up sometimes, and debates to become heated. It's normal for forums. But there is no need to expect or accept someone intentionally causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aislin Ceawlin Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 Storm Clarence wrote: Aislin Ceawlin wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: Aislin Ceawlin wrote: Phil, I'm willing to bet I know exactly whom said troll is And I am willing to bet you are right HA! Knew it! I find her to be a boring troll as well. Absolutely boring, so I scroll past her words most times. I like to feed her every-once-in-a-while, as it's fun. That's okay, Storm. I don't come here to be exciting. You're assessment of me is not injurous in any fashion. Smoooooch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Clarence Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Aislin Ceawlin wrote: Storm Clarence wrote: Aislin Ceawlin wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: Aislin Ceawlin wrote: Phil, I'm willing to bet I know exactly whom said troll is And I am willing to bet you are right HA! Knew it! I find her to be a boring troll as well. Absolutely boring, so I scroll past her words most times. I like to feed her every-once-in-a-while, as it's fun. That's okay, Storm. I don't come here to be exciting. You're assessment of me is not injurous in any fashion. Smoooooch! I did not have you in mind when I wrote this^^. In all fairness to me, I don't even know who you are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aislin Ceawlin Posted October 15, 2013 Author Share Posted October 15, 2013 My original post was not meant to be provoking. There has been so much talk of trolling lately, that I thought I would simply clarify exactly what the definition of troll is. That is all I have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malanya Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: Anger and annoyance are emotions. Being reduced to tears is an emotion. To the best of my knowledge, he is the only one left who aims at causing those reactions in people. There used to be others. Not many, but not just him. If there are others in the forum who do it, I'm not aware of them. It happens quite often here that a person accuses someone of being a troll. It's because they are getting wound up by not having their view agreed with. Other people resort to insults. The people they accuse are not trolls though. In this discussion I'm talking about one person who intentionally writes things with the intention of winding another person up. That is being a troll. It's what a troll does. It sometimes becomes like a domino effect when he keeps on and on and on, and simply doesn't stop, and especially when his few friends join in. In a forum we can expect anger to rise up sometimes, and debates to become heated. It's normal for forums. But there is no need to expect or accept someone intentionally causing it. I understand your point and mostly agree with you. Anger and annoyance are emotions, beiong happy is one too. I just don't understand as i said how someone could come to tears by what a forumite says. I know it happens and it's wrong when that person continues to poke at a person. I agree with your definition of a troll also. My point was that there are others who imitate this behavior. Debates are healthy, sometimes a person may be passionate about their POV but another may open their eyes to seeing things differently. Anger comes into play, but to me at that point it's no longer a debate, but yes it's normal for a forum. You are right no one should have to expect or accept it. That's human nature though Phil and no matter what there is always that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Aislin Ceawlin wrote: My original post was not meant to be provoking. There has been so much talk of trolling lately, that I thought I would simply clarify exactly what the definition of troll is. That is all I have to say. On the charge of Flaming: GUILTY On the charge of Harassment: GUILTY On the charge of being ingenuously interfering to attract personal attention: GUILTY Obiter Dicta: Ignorance is not a valid defence. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: he caused one person to leave completely No evidence has been provided to support the charge: CASE DISMISSED Phil Deakins wrote: he caused ... another to react so much that he himself was hurt by it. No evidence has been provided to support the charge: CASE DISMISSED Obiter Dicta: The Plaintiff should distinguish between faux emotions presented to achieve an effect (qv crocodile tears, females crying when a motor cycle cop is threatening to give them a traffic ticket, Anthony Hopkins expressing a liking for fava beans) for example, creating an atmosphere of peer rejection which persuades an antagonist that they have been humiliated sufficiently that they do not wish to appear again in public, and real emotions, which can not be confirmed online. Phil Deakins wrote: And he is known to have reduced people to tears No evidence has been provided to support the charge: CASE DISMISSED Phil Deakins wrote: Sometimes people resort to insults during arguments. There is no need for it but it can be understandable. On the charge of issuing insults: NOT PROVEN Obiter Dicta: What is an insult? For example, "You are fat" is simply expressing a perhaps unpalatable truth when expressed by a doctor, so why should it be considered insulting when an amateur offers the insight? Such an "insult" would be rather stupid in an online debate, of course, as there is no evidence to support it. "You are semi-literate" or "Your memory is unreliable" would similarly be simple expressions of the truth as could be evidenced by reference to posting records.On the other hand "You are a troll", "You are mean" or "You are full of sh1t" are expressions of opinion, which are likely to depend upon the issuer's interpretation - or recollection, which may be faulty - of the concepts underlying the words, and which are demonstrably unprovable although the issuer's intent may be interpreted as malevolent. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: It sometimes becomes like a domino effect when he keeps on and on and on, and simply doesn't stop, and especially when his few friends join in. May I interject with a question? How many of what you might claim to be your friends interceded publicly on your behalf in a recent debate that you had with Pie Serendipity regarding your fabricated memories of an event in the history of Pep Daniels? I understand you had no support for your position whatsoever, and that it has been criticised as being without merit, and possibly justifies classification as a vexatious argument, which is prima facie evidence of harassment. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 There probably are others here who also do it. It's just that I'm not aware of them. Like you, I also don't understand how someone can be reduced to tears by what a person says in a forum but it does happen, and continually poking barbs at people will almost certainly cause it to happen to one or more of them over time. I agree that it's human nature in some people but, fortunately, it's not most people's nature, so those who do it are few. In the old thread that he linked to, everyone who expressed an opinion judged him guilty of causing what happened - causing someone to leave completely and another to react in an astonishing way. What surprised me was how easily one person wrote off the one who had left - who was seen as a good forum friend - and said something along the lines of, "What's done it done, so let's put it in the past and carry on". It felt like the victim had been driven out so forget about her and carry on with the culprit still there. It just felt wrong. Through all the years we've seen the same person doing the same things. Sometimes someone will privately be reduced to tears, and sometimes someone will feel that being in the forum is too unpleasant so they go. Most times it doesn't have those effects, of course, but each individual's tolerance level is different, and he doesn't know who he is really going to hurt next. Having recently re-read that part of the old thread, it occurred to me that the forum population doesn't have to put up with it, and that's why I encourage users to report any trolling posts (flames, barbs, insults). If he doesn't post any more of them, all will be well, but, if he does, don't put up with it. Report them instead, and not just his. Let's not put up with it any more, They can only continue if we let them. There can't be anything at all wrong with that. Nobody has anything to be concerned about if they don't post flames or insults or even barbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 jujmental wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: It sometimes becomes like a domino effect when he keeps on and on and on, and simply doesn't stop, and especially when his few friends join in. May I interject with a question? How many of what you might claim to be your friends interceded publicly on your behalf in a recent debate that you had with Pie Serendipity regarding your fabricated memories of an event in the history of Pep Daniels? I understand you had no support for your position whatsoever, and that it has been criticised as being without merit, and possibly justifies classification as a vexatious argument, which is prima facie evidence of harassment. The Judge You may ask the question. None of those I think of as friends posted anything in support of my point - but you did. However, as I told you before, I did receive a number of messages of support - one even came to see me inworld to offer support. I don't ask people to post on my behalf. I let the evidence speak for itself. I don't need support in posts. The facts are all I need and you posted a link to some of the fact lol. ETA: You judge guise is novel. I'll give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: I also don't understand how someone can be reduced to tears by what a person says in a forum but it does happen, On the charge of persistently introducing hearsay evidence: GUILTY Obiter Dicta: Your submission might carry a little more weight if you admitted to being driven to tears yourself. However, the court would only have your unsupported word for it, and that, I am afraid, given your recent admissions of failures of cognitive capabilities, is not worth the screen your pixels appear on. Phil Deakins wrote: causing someone to leave completely and another to react in an astonishing way On the charge of False Memory Syndrome: GUILTY, BUT INSANE Obiter Dicta: The causal association between the posts of an individual and the actions, or reactions, of another, is undemonstrable; remoteness of location and prejudicial interference by others are factors which prevent accurate conclusions from being drawn from what is admitted as at least second-hand opinion. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 jujmental wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: causing someone to leave completely and another to react in an astonishing way On the charge of False Memory Syndrome: GUILTY, BUT INSANE From the old forum thread that you yourself linked to:- It was not his little barbs. It was what he did to someone you called a friend. She is gone now, so it is not like it can ever happen again That was Rhonda stating why she reacted as she did. The "he" is you and she "she" was Amara, who you drove out of the forum, causing Rhonda's outburst against you. On the charge of squirming: GUILTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujmental Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: jujmental wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: It sometimes becomes like a domino effect when he keeps on and on and on, and simply doesn't stop, and especially when his few friends join in. May I interject with a question? How many of what you might claim to be your friends interceded publicly on your behalf in a recent debate that you had with Pie Serendipity regarding your fabricated memories of an event in the history of Pep Daniels? I understand you had no support for your position whatsoever, and that it has been criticised as being without merit, and possibly justifies classification as a vexatious argument, which is prima facie evidence of harassment. The Judge You may ask the question. None of those I think of as friends posted anything in support of my point Does this not rather dilute the strength of your position? In fact, does it not render your situation ridiculously untenable, since you are arguing that limited public support was offered to your antagonist, whereas you could offer none at all yourself. I will not comment on invisible expressions of support, as you have not admitted the possibility that your antagonist might have had extensive support which was not mobilised into the public domain, thus rendering you even more risible. The Judge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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