Melita Magic Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The official Second Life viewer interface will ever return to the oldie but goodie?So many functions are worse.I installed the new viewer. Not the beta, just the new one. So now I have both. I went back to the old one as soon as I could. It loads much more slowly now. Some world textures are missing. I get a frequent annoying pop up telling me some textures are missing (as if I didn't know it.) Half the people and places are big black bubbles now and I can't see windows or doors in some shops so I can't go in them (sometimes everything inside is mesh also, so I can't cam in to shop either. Nothing's rezzing.)I could not use the camera. I tried to take a photo of something and email it and although it looked fine and was framed well in the viewer camera, the result was a tiny piece of that photo blown up 1200 times or something. Looked like a drunk snapping pictures.Everything is on the left side. I am not left handed and the buttons on the left covered a HUD I have to wear. I have tried moving said HUD before and it doesn't work well. So if in the new viewer I can't operate the HUD as I should.I could not find anywhere to adjust camera controls. I could not find anywhere to learn how to use the thing. (I know there must be a manual online but I don't learn well that way. I learn by doing.) In the old viewer, I can type in the picture size. I don't see anything like that anywhere. Obviously the photos I was taking were too large, even though they looked fine while being taken.Nothing seemed to show up in Inventory, and it looked weird, when it did. I don't know how to find or use people's profiles, I don't know how to use Search. The screen covered with ads when I log in is overbearing.I don't want to use a third party viewer because I'm zealous with my privacy I guess and the growing loss of same the internet is experiencing is troubling enough. For instance I just tried to sign up for a new Yahoo (to use flickr) and they won't allow it at all now without a mobile phone attached. (How is that legal?) I know from experience how very easy it is to link everything a person connects that way and find all their little secrets in a two minute google search. (I didn't do that on purpose for those reasons.) It's insidious to me.Sorry, getting off topic - I was thinking about doing a thread on that too. Anyway. Phew.Is there a group I can join for the new viewer or, Old Viewer Anonymous meetings, or something? Even pick up/take/edit are horrible in the new one. Why not keep the new functions and just return to the old interface? I haven't met anyone who actually liked the new interface. Why keep it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 The official Second Life viewer interface will ever return to the oldie but goodie?So many functions are worse.I installed the new viewer. Not the beta, just the new one. So now I have both. I went back to the old one as soon as I could. It loads much more slowly now. Some world textures are missing. I get a frequent annoying pop up telling me some textures are missing (as if I didn't know it.) Half the people and places are big black bubbles now and I can't see windows or doors in some shops so I can't go in them (sometimes everything inside is mesh also, so I can't cam in to shop either. Nothing's rezzing.)I could not use the camera. I tried to take a photo of something and email it and although it looked fine and was framed well in the viewer camera, the result was a tiny piece of that photo blown up 1200 times or something. Looked like a drunk snapping pictures.Everything is on the left side. I am not left handed and the buttons on the left covered a HUD I have to wear. I have tried moving said HUD before and it doesn't work well. So if in the new viewer I can't operate the HUD as I should.I could not find anywhere to adjust camera controls. I could not find anywhere to learn how to use the thing. (I know there must be a manual online but I don't learn well that way. I learn by doing.) In the old viewer, I can type in the picture size. I don't see anything like that anywhere. Obviously the photos I was taking were too large, even though they looked fine while being taken.Nothing seemed to show up in Inventory, and it looked weird, when it did. I don't know how to find or use people's profiles, I don't know how to use Search. The screen covered with ads when I log in is overbearing.I don't want to use a third party viewer because I'm zealous with my privacy I guess and the growing loss of same the internet is experiencing is troubling enough. For instance I just tried to sign up for a new Yahoo (to use flickr) and they won't allow it at all now without a mobile phone attached. (How is that legal?) I know from experience how very easy it is to link everything a person connects that way and find all their little secrets in a two minute google search. (I didn't do that on purpose for those reasons.) It's insidious to me.Sorry, getting off topic - I was thinking about doing a thread on that too. Anyway. Phew.Is there a group I can join for the new viewer or, Old Viewer Anonymous meetings, or something? Even pick up/take/edit are horrible in the new one. Why not keep the new functions and just return to the old interface? I haven't met anyone who actually liked the new interface. Why keep it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 BTW by camera controls I don't mean in world camera, I meant, snapshot camera. But now I mention it: I didn't understand what that camera control thing was at bottom either, or its function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenMichelle Lane Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Would you consider me awful for suggesting that you take the Viewer Tutorials? http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Second-Life-Quickstart/ta-p/1087919 & http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Second-Life-User-s-Guide/ta-p/1244857 Seriously, since you will know what the concepts are then the Viewer 3 interface will be the new thing for you. You'll be mastering the SL3 Viewer in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 No, definitely not awful. I appreciate the help. I will give the tutorials a try...maybe tomorrow. I'm a big believer in intuitive controls, though. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwenting Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 what are the chances... that people will stop being stuck in the past and think that anything newer is automatically worse? That they'll start trying to get to know new things before ranting how they're worse because they're not identical to what they're used to? Sadly, I think chances are pretty poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 What are the chances..... that Linden Lab will stop making people limp their way through Second Life with Viewers that are designed and coded by people who don't even have a Second Life? What are the chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 OPTION 1 - Try going to Caledon Oxbridge and go through their tutorial. Think of yourself as someone completely new to SL. New people adjust to the new viewer quickly. OPTION 2 - Use Singularity, which will have the basic interface you're used to. As far as security/privacy? The Singularity developers sit down with Linden Lab developers on a weekly basis and, like all major viewers, their code is completely open for examination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 That first post was my practical comment. This is my editoral comment: A few years ago broadcast television changed from analog to digital. A retired schoolteacher from New York put up a guest editorial in the New York Times basically whining, as she was one of the handful of people in the US who didn't have cable TV and she apparently couldn't be jazzed to do enough research to figure out how to get and install a converter box, which were widely available and even had their >$40 cost subsidized by government coupons. She was confused and wondering why she had to change even though this was a known situation for months - years, really. At the time, I was also not on cable, just got a converter box for my antenna TV, and was watching TV reception that was much better than it was before. I was thinking - this editorial writer also seemed like she'd be the sort of person who'd say "Young people are so lazy and have no initiative these days." Seemed like those traits weren't exactly confined to the young.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buttacwup Float Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The old interface meaning the v1 style interface with the pie menu and such? Regardless, I don't think they will ever go back to that UI, and you now know someone that actually likes the new way. In my opinion the old v1 UI is an example of everything wrong with UI design. Being such a big fan though I am happy to help you sort out the new version. It does sound like a lot of the issues you are seeing relate to your computer or your connection. Reply here or shout in world I am happy to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orca Flotta Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 FFS, Melita, use Singualrity or FS in Phoenix mode! Problem solved. That one incident with the Emerald devs happened long ago and was really a single guy who was a known griefer. They singled him out and doing their best now to avoid such shenanigans in the future. If you're so concerned about security and wanna escape the big brother then do it right and switch your whole system to Linux, save money, re-own your PC and enjoy real security. But even that sad incident with Emerald couldn't persuade me to use the LL viewer again. You now Emerald/Firestorm isn't he only TPV in town. There are many. Some are clinging to V1, like Singularity for example. I didn't use any official LL viewer since mid 07 and did never regret the move away from LL. Ok, once I felt tempted to switch to V2 coz I wanted to enjoy all the new stuff and future technology but as it turned out V2 was a still born child, a clueless attempt to turn the viewer into a browser, it was clunky and awkward and used much too much screen real property. All my favourite stuff was hidden away under layers of menus and it became clear to me the guys who designed that UI obviously didn't spend much time in world. So I went back to some TPV quite fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orca Flotta Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 what are the chances... that people will stop being stuck in the past and think that anything newer is automatically worse? Wow, that was a general misconception if there ever was one. What are the chances that muslims will ever stop throwing bombs at the USA? What are the chances that n00bs will ever assume they might be clueless or wrong about anything? What are the chances that everyone used to an easy, well-functioning system will ever trade it in for something worse just coz it's new and shiny? What are the chances that people like you will ever grow a brain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Perrie Juran wrote: What are the chances..... that Linden Lab will stop making people limp their way through Second Life with Viewers that are designed and coded by people who don't even have a Second Life? What are the chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I agree, Orca. @Melita - I've used a TPV since 2007 and have never had an issue with security. With all this NSA stuff flying around, our security on SL is the last thing I'm concerned about. I never used Emerald because I was still using the Nicholaz viewer iirc when it came out. I then switched to Phoenix when Nicholaz quit developing viewers and am now on Singularity which, for me, contains everything I loved about Phoenix (including the v1 UI and area search which is a LIFESAVER for someone who gets impatient shopping in world very easily) but none of the extraneous features I don't need in FS. (Not dissing FS, I just discovered Singularity and love it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Theresa Tennyson wrote: That first post was my practical comment. This is my editoral comment: A few years ago broadcast television changed from analog to digital. A retired schoolteacher from New York put up a guest editorial in the New York Times basically whining, as she was one of the handful of people in the US who didn't have cable TV and she apparently couldn't be jazzed to do enough research to figure out how to get and install a converter box, which were widely available and even had their >$40 cost subsidized by government coupons. She was confused and wondering why she had to change even though this was a known situation for months - years, really. At the time, I was also not on cable, just got a converter box for my antenna TV, and was watching TV reception that was much better than it was before. I was thinking - this editorial writer also seemed like she'd be the sort of person who'd say "Young people are so lazy and have no initiative these days." Seemed like those traits weren't exactly confined to the young.... I thank you for your practical suggestions, which are helpful. I did not know Caledon had a new viewer tutorial. That's actually a very good recommendation and I am grateful to you for it. I hadn't been to Caledon in some time, and they've always been excellent and a helpful SL resource. I also thank Perrie, Orca, and Czari for their suggestions and will take them all to heart. I also thank those of you who did not mock me for simply not preferring this new viewer. Even more so those who defended me against the mockery. I know it seems more logical to try a TPV, but I also feel more secure thinking LL will give support if I need it with something, which I am not sure if they will do at all if I am using another interface. Do abuse reports or land or tech issues still get the same treatment if the person is using a TPV as when they are using the official LL viewer? Theresa I'm a bit surprised that two helpful suggestions would be followed up with an insult like the following. (How else am I to take it?) So the implication in the bit below is that I am lazy, old, and have no initiative? I can't recall ever making an ageist remark like the woman in your story so that story would not fit in that sense. I'm unsure why it's been placed in my thread or what it is meant to illustrate. It's perfectly legitimate to address issues with any technology, to prefer some methods over others, and so forth. New isn't automatically better. That to me seems like a cop out which in itself would impede progress, rather than represent it at its best. (Excerpted from your "editorial comment.") "I was thinking - this editorial writer also seemed like she'd be the sort of person who'd say "Young people are so lazy and have no initiative these days." Seemed like those traits weren't exactly confined to the young.... " (ETA: I don't have any trouble with newfangled gadgets like digital cable, TiVo, or, I don't know, horse and buggy, either; if that was the characterization meant to apply to my topic or myself.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 seanabrady wrote: The old interface meaning the v1 style interface with the pie menu and such? Regardless, I don't think they will ever go back to that UI, and you now know someone that actually likes the new way. In my opinion the old v1 UI is an example of everything wrong with UI design. Being such a big fan though I am happy to help you sort out the new version. It does sound like a lot of the issues you are seeing relate to your computer or your connection. Reply here or shout in world I am happy to help. Thank you very much. I believe I will take you up on that one of these days. Possibly next week or when I am a bit more rested (haven't been sleeping much) and can follow along so as not to waste any of your time. Very generous offer, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Melita Magic wrote: I know it seems more logical to try a TPV, but I also feel more secure thinking LL will give support if I need it with something, which I am not sure if they will do at all if I am using another interface. Do abuse reports or land or tech issues still get the same treatment if the person is using a TPV as when they are using the official LL viewer? Re: support from LL using TPVs, it depends on the issue. Anything regarding abuse reports, land issues (tries to think of other examples)...anything having to do with the "world" itself would be handled the same. Obviously viewer-related issues would not be addressed by LL but, as many have already testified in this and other threads, FS has an awesome support group in world, forums on their website, and regularly held classes in world. When I first began using Singularity I had an issue with texture flickering. I went to their website and found what in LL terms would be a jira area. I submitted my issue and literally within minutes had an answer from either the Singularity dev or staff advising the solution which, in my case, was to dl their latest "alpha" viewer which. From what I can surmise, their alpha viewers are released almost daily, similar to the LL Release Candidate viewers. At any rate, my issue was solved and I was back in a non-flickering SL within minutes. The other area that one would likely not get much support from LL if using a TPV would be inventory type issues but, except for one rare occasion, I have never had much success from them on that regard no matter what viewer, including theirs, I was using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Minimal knowledge, but backing this up: I've only had to contact LL support a handful of times. I don't think I was using the LL viewer for any of those, although I might have done while I was still on 1.23. They never asked what viewer I was using (the issues were not viewer related). LL might care, but I don't think the caring influences how they support us. ETA: Why am I so confused? No response required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Time rarely moves in any direction but forward. As far as LLs is concerned, the old viewer is almost 4 years obsolete (Feb 2014 will be the 4 year anniversary of the so-called new system). Its the past, gone. People have had 4 years to get with the present, the time for sympathy for any who haven't been able to adjust given almost 4 years... is also past. It took me one single week in early 2010 to adjust. That week was horrid, rough, but worth it. Once I made the transition - I found viewer 2, and now 3 quite easy to use. Frankly I find the old system quite difficult to work with now. And I must say it had many things in it I never liked to begin with, got used to, and now no longer have to deal with. If you don't want to move on, if you really like to roll like its 2003, there is still Singularity, for now. seanabrady wrote: In my opinion the old v1 UI is an example of everything wrong with UI design. Agreed. Especially the horrible pie-menu. I know there are people here who love to link a "study" saying pie is the best thing ever... but frankly... its not. Too many hand motions and eye motions needed to work with it - too much muscle strain... Over time, such a small strain can wear down a user, making the experience taxing. Imagine trying to play an action game with that going on. Pull downs use less strain, and are, frankly; more common across other software as well - meaning less alienation between applications. The new UI is not ideal either - but it is less taxing even where it requires more clicks; which is actually not that common... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 See, here's the thing - I doubt that any of us in this thread have difficulty grasping the year in which we're living. The fact that technology "moves on" hasn't escaped us either. But there's this little thing called "choice." If I didn't like strawberry ice cream and one day my favorite grocery store decided to only stock strawberry in the ice cream section, I would choose a different grocery. Likewise, if the official LL viewer was the only one offered in SL, I would have a choice: remain in LL and learn to use it or leave SL. Fortunately there *are* choices of viewers for SL and, based on a video I saw awhile back of an interview of Oz Linden by Jessica Lyon, LL would be foolish to forbid TPVs as even Oz commented that (at that time) the LL viewer was #3 after Phoenix & Firestorm. Back to choice - no one is saying "Don't use the LL viewer" - 2003 was a MUCH better year"; some of us are saying "We don't like the official viewer so this is the one we use and this is why" which was in response to the OPs initial post. ETA: Oppsies - the OP to which I was referring was the thread on "Why is Firestorm So Popular" - my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theresa Tennyson Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Czari Zenovka wrote: See, here's the thing - I doubt that any of us in this thread have difficulty grasping the year in which we're living. The fact that technology "moves on" hasn't escaped us either. But there's this little thing called "choice." If I didn't like strawberry ice cream and one day my favorite grocery store decided to only stock strawberry in the ice cream section, I would choose a different grocery. Likewise, if the official LL viewer was the only one offered in SL, I would have a choice: remain in LL and learn to use it or leave SL. Fortunately there *are* choices of viewers for SL and, based on a video I saw awhile back of an interview of Oz Linden by Jessica Lyon, LL would be foolish to forbid TPVs as even Oz commented that (at that time) the LL viewer was #3 after Phoenix & Firestorm. Back to choice - no one is saying "Don't use the LL viewer" - 2003 was a MUCH better year"; some of us are saying "We don't like the official viewer so this is the one we use and this is why" which was in response to the OPs initial post. ETA: Oppsies - the OP to which I was referring was the thread on "Why is Firestorm So Popular" - my bad. Here's a snacktime story that's a little more connected to this thread: Let's say you lived across the street from a Hostess bakery and outlet - they made Twinkies. You love Twinkies. The factory's convenient - you can just walk there. You feel safe. Then, as we know, Hostess goes bankrupt. The factory gets sold to McKee and now makes Little Debbie stuff. Not Twinkies. So, what do you do? Stock up on Twinkies - that's the logical thing to do. Not arguing with you there. Need something to tide you over. Meanwhile, another company has bought up the old recipies from Hostess and is making Twinkies across town. TWINKIES! But - It's another part of town. You haven't been there. Other people say it nice but you heard something bad happened to your friend's aunt over there. Not sure if you want to take the chance. So, what do you do? Keep eating your little stock of Twinkies while you sample various things from the LIttle Debbie plant - perhaps a Star Crunch or Swiss Cake Roll - until you find something you like almost as well as a Twinkie - or maybe even more? Or do you make your way across town and get good old Twinkies from the new place? Maybe it's not so bad out there... Or do you do neither, fill your house with every available old Hostess Twinkie and keep eating them for THREE YEARS, not making any sort of transition plan, hoping that the plant will suddenly decide out of the blue to start making Twinkies again despite all the investment the owners have made in non-Twinkie equipment since then? Eventually you'll eat that last hard, shrunken, three-year-old Twinkie. Nothing lasts forever. Then what'll you do? The next step could be easy or hard - it all depends on the choices you made before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Theresa Tennyson wrote: Czari Zenovka wrote: See, here's the thing - I doubt that any of us in this thread have difficulty grasping the year in which we're living. The fact that technology "moves on" hasn't escaped us either. But there's this little thing called "choice." If I didn't like strawberry ice cream and one day my favorite grocery store decided to only stock strawberry in the ice cream section, I would choose a different grocery. Likewise, if the official LL viewer was the only one offered in SL, I would have a choice: remain in LL and learn to use it or leave SL. Fortunately there *are* choices of viewers for SL and, based on a video I saw awhile back of an interview of Oz Linden by Jessica Lyon, LL would be foolish to forbid TPVs as even Oz commented that (at that time) the LL viewer was #3 after Phoenix & Firestorm. Back to choice - no one is saying "Don't use the LL viewer" - 2003 was a MUCH better year"; some of us are saying "We don't like the official viewer so this is the one we use and this is why" which was in response to the OPs initial post. ETA: Oppsies - the OP to which I was referring was the thread on "Why is Firestorm So Popular" - my bad. Here's a snacktime story that's a little more connected to this thread: Let's say you lived across the street from a Hostess bakery and outlet - they made Twinkies. You love Twinkies. The factory's convenient - you can just walk there. You feel safe. Then, as we know, Hostess goes bankrupt. The factory gets sold to McKee and now makes Little Debbie stuff. Not Twinkies. So, what do you do? Stock up on Twinkies - that's the logical thing to do. Not arguing with you there. Need something to tide you over. Meanwhile, another company has bought up the old recipies from Hostess and is making Twinkies across town. TWINKIES! But - It's another part of town. You haven't been there. Other people say it nice but you heard something bad happened to your friend's aunt over there. Not sure if you want to take the chance. So, what do you do? Keep eating your little stock of Twinkies while you sample various things from the LIttle Debbie plant - perhaps a Star Crunch or Swiss Cake Roll - until you find something you like almost as well as a Twinkie - or maybe even more? Or do you make your way across town and get good old Twinkies from the new place? Maybe it's not so bad out there... Or do you do neither, fill your house with every available old Hostess Twinkie and keep eating them for THREE YEARS, not making any sort of transition plan, hoping that the plant will suddenly decide out of the blue to start making Twinkies again despite all the investment the owners have made in non-Twinkie equipment since then? Eventually you'll eat that last hard, shrunken, three-year-old Twinkie. Nothing lasts forever. Then what'll you do? The next step could be easy or hard - it all depends on the choices you made before. OMG! Not the Twinkie Defense! You do know that they still convicted Dan White of murder despite the defense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Yeah, I'm not sure why finding issues with the current viewer would make me a Luddite (I do appreciate quality no matter where or when it is from), old fart (matter of perspective), technophobe (as I type on my computer?), stupid (matter of opinion or test), or lazy (having priorities is being lazy?) I know what year it is. I don't make crank calls to my cable company when they make changes. (I don't make crank calls period.) I don't like Twinkies. I had a few Little Debbies as a child. I would not personally stand in line for a Cronut. Time is linear? Ask Dr. Who! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czari Zenovka Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 tl;dr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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