Copy / Transfer ?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

its its no trans and there is an issue they can't send it back to me. 

you can make outfits with links of the same item. uses less inventory that way.

and yes.. someone can buy the outfit and actually give it to their loved one rather than hoping it goes through the MP gift option.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

why would clothing need to be copyable?

 

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And the even BIGER question, why shouldn’t clothing be copyable? Like Trinity said, the gift option wont work. So why not, just be be mean?

I box up outfits / avatars complete with shape, skin, hair and everything, I take a photo and keep the box and photo in a folder. I now have two items in my inventory for a complete avatar. No copy makes it so when you unpack the box the no copy item is no longer in the box. With the copy only items I unpack the box and then delete it. When I am finished with that avatar I delete it and again have only the box and photo. So because of that I will not purchase no copy clothing.  Mesh or any other kind.

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That sounds like a rather extreme way of doing things.. every time you want to change clothing you have to unpack a box?

How does the gift option not work? If i don't wear something anymore i usually give it to a friend. can't do that with no trans stuff.

[Teagan Tobias]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

its its no trans and there is an issue they can't send it back to me. 

you can make outfits with links of the same item. uses less inventory that way.

and yes.. someone can buy the outfit and actually give it to their loved one rather than hoping it goes through the MP gift option.

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If there is an issue with an item you sell and you don't fix it, copy or not, then you will lose costumers because you will be thought of as not caring about the customer or the quality of what you sold them.

I can't box up, or backup, a link.

So put the copy and no copy option for sale. With the new venders I hear its pretty easy.

And about the “mean” comment, that was because when I asked one store owner why his items are no copy he just replayed, lol because I can.

And not all my outfits are boxed up, only the ones that I really like. Other than that I change clothing from my inventory.

[Sassy Romano]

Just to throw a slight niche issue in here, RLV commands such as @detachallthis don't work on items that are within #RLV that are links to clothing layers.  (I won't go into details but it just doesn't work as most hope)

Thus for that reason, actual clothing layers have to be present.  Copy is preferable in this instance.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

its its no trans and there is an issue they can't send it back to me. 

you can make outfits with links of the same item. uses less inventory that way.

and yes.. someone can buy the outfit and actually give it to their loved one rather than hoping it goes through the MP gift option.

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If there is an issue with an item you sell and you don't fix it, copy or not, then you will lose costumers because you will be thought of as not caring about the customer or the quality of what you sold them.

I can't box up, or backup, a link.

So put the copy and no copy option for sale. With the new venders I hear its pretty easy.

And about the “mean” comment, that was because when I asked one store owner why his items are no copy he just replayed, lol because I can.

And not all my outfits are boxed up, only the ones that I really like. Other than that I change clothing from my inventory.

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If someone doesnt like an item i am selling i will refund them their money when they send it back to me. provided i have a transaction record.  can't do that with copy items.

No.. i will not put my items up for sale as copy items. I do not have to and you do not own SL. As you are not a merchant you have no idea how much work it would be to copy all of the items, re-perm them, send them to the MP and create new listings for them. Nevermind how much this would bulk up my inventory.

And that merchant is 100% correct, he CAN put them up as no copy and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. That is HIS right as a merchant. Whether or not you buy from any of us is your choice, but we do not have to kowtow to you.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

lol Drake, i dont think anyone here is about to force you to choose one perms set rather than another one hehheheheh..

as i said, there is no wrong or right one... the only right one is the one you feel comfortable with... and keep doing lovely clothings like you do :smileywink: .. they are looking really great on my avi :smileyhappy:

[Teagan Tobias]

If someone doesnt like an item i am selling i will refund them their money when they send it back to me. provided i have a transaction record. can't do that with copy items.

That is what the DEMO is for.

I don't expect you or any merchant to list things just because that is what I want. Verity makes the world go around. But by the same token, I don't half to buy from you. We both understand that.

And yes you can put them up any way you want, my only point about the, because I can, is that it was his only reason. You have given other reasons, not the same thing. He was just nasty in his reply, IMHO.

[Teagan Tobias]

And keep in mind that the thread was started because I find many stores where you can't tell if something is copy or not, that is the issue. Sell copy, sell no copy, that was not what I was complaining about. All I was interested in saying is, tell me the permissions if your selling something.

People that would like copy would like to know.

People that would like transfer would like to know.

The fact that I buy copy only is not and should not be an issue, who cares.:smileyvery-happy:

[Rya Nitely]

Your response brought something to mind that I thought of recently. If you are deciding whether to buy or not to buy because of any reasons, then IM the merchant and ask. You did this and the answer you got made you decide not to buy from that merchant because he was rude. Others may not respond at all, but that would warn me that the merchant either does not respond to IMs or is too busy or capped or whatever. But I want to buy from people who are easy to reach and responsive. It is how I run my business. (And I don't like writing notecards or receiving them - I still don't get why some people get capped and others don't - but that's another sensitive topic, let's not go there).

My point is, having a reason to IM the merchant before you buy is a good way to find out who you are buying from - and you may be rewarded with what you want. People who IM me often get freebies.

 

[Teagan Tobias]

I have had some very pleasant experiences with merchants and have got some free things in appreciation. One woman was almost giving away some of her store and did not know it, when I IM'ed her she was very grateful. It was lucky for her she was still online, she had just finished updating prices and there had been an SL glitch.

There are some very pleasant people in SL. That is one reason I have been here for over five years now, I like it here.

[Czari Zenovka]

From my post further up in this thread:

When I began a thread on General awhile back to get a feel for if people preferred copy/mod or mod/trans items, I specifically stated I was asking for the type of items I create.  Some people indicated they prefer different perms for home items vs wearable items.  For clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc. most people who posted in that thread preferred copy/mod for clothing due to the ability to mix & match various clothing items to create different looks.  I'm in that category now as well for clothing since I put entire outfits, including hair, skin, accessories, together.

(Bolding added for emphasis)

Especially for outfits that I wear regularly, I create a folder for each outfit.  I include in the folder the shape, skin, hair, shoes, stockings (I usually wear dresses) and jewelry.  When I switch outfits, this organization allows me to simply "Replace Outfit" or "Add to Outfit" if I'm using the same skin/shape.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Rya Nitely wrote:

Your response brought something to mind that I thought of recently. If you are deciding whether to buy or not to buy because of any reasons, then IM the merchant and ask. You did this and the answer you got made you decide not to buy from that merchant because he was rude. Others may not respond at all, but that would warn me that the merchant either does not respond to IMs or is too busy or capped or whatever. But I want to buy from people who are easy to reach and responsive. It is how I run my business. (And I don't like writing notecards or receiving them - I still don't get why some people get capped and others don't - but that's another sensitive topic, let's not go there).

My point is, having a reason to IM the merchant before you buy is a good way to find out who you are buying from - and you may be rewarded with what you want. People who IM me often get freebies.

 

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Excellent point, Rya!  I had one customer IM me to ask if I would change perms on an item from Transfer to Copy. (I've really struggled with the Copy vs Trans issue so I've tried both at different times.)  I was happy to provide the customer with her request.  I love when customers contact me as I want them to be 100% happy with their purchases.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

From my post further up in this thread:

When I began a thread on General awhile back to get a feel for if people preferred copy/mod or mod/trans items, I specifically stated I was asking for the type of items I create.  Some people indicated they prefer different perms for home items vs wearable items. 

For clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc. most people who posted in that thread preferred copy/mod for clothing due to the ability to mix & match various clothing items to create different looks.  I'm in that category now as well for clothing since I put entire outfits, including hair, skin, accessories, together.

(Bolding added for emphasis)

Especially for outfits that I wear regularly, I create a folder for each outfit.  I include in the folder the shape, skin, hair, shoes, stockings (I usually wear dresses) and jewelry.  When I switch outfits, this organization allows me to simply "Replace Outfit" or "Add to Outfit" if I'm using the same skin/shape.

 

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i actually create "outfits" for mix n match sets i wear regularly. no added inventory, just outfit folders with links to the items. i feel it is one of the best features, aside from multiple layers, that a viewer can offer.

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

From my post further up in this thread:

When I began a thread on General awhile back to get a feel for if people preferred copy/mod or mod/trans items, I specifically stated I was asking for the type of items I create.  Some people indicated they prefer different perms for home items vs wearable items. 

For clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc. most people who posted in that thread preferred copy/mod for clothing due to the ability to mix & match various clothing items to create different looks.  I'm in that category now as well for clothing since I put entire outfits, including hair, skin, accessories, together.

(Bolding added for emphasis)

Especially for outfits that I wear regularly, I create a folder for each outfit.  I include in the folder the shape, skin, hair, shoes, stockings (I usually wear dresses) and jewelry.  When I switch outfits, this organization allows me to simply "Replace Outfit" or "Add to Outfit" if I'm using the same skin/shape.

 

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You don't use the "outfits" function that i snow in the viewers?

I know that what you are doing was the old way of doing it before the "outfits" function.

It would reduce a huge amount of inventory clutter for you.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

From my post further up in this thread:

When I began a thread on General awhile back to get a feel for if people preferred copy/mod or mod/trans items, I specifically stated I was asking for the type of items I create.  Some people indicated they prefer different perms for home items vs wearable items. 

For clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc. most people who posted in that thread preferred copy/mod for clothing due to the ability to mix & match various clothing items to create different looks.  I'm in that category now as well for clothing since I put entire outfits, including hair, skin, accessories, together.

(Bolding added for emphasis)

Especially for outfits that I wear regularly, I create a folder for each outfit.  I include in the folder the shape, skin, hair, shoes, stockings (I usually wear dresses) and jewelry.  When I switch outfits, this organization allows me to simply "Replace Outfit" or "Add to Outfit" if I'm using the same skin/shape.

 

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You don't use the "outfits" function that i snow in the viewers?

I know that what you are doing was the old way of doing it before the "outfits" function.

It would reduce a huge amount of inventory clutter for you.

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@Drake & Perrie - I don't think the viewer I use, because my PC won't run those viewers, uses the "Outfits" function.  If it does (pre-mesh Phoenix) then I've never used it but I have my own system down to a science that works for me and at approximately 8500 total inventory, I don't have inventory clutter.

 

[Spica Inventor]

You're right Teagan. Merchants who just produce transfer but no copy products are just being greedy, thinking they'll end up making more money from it somehow, but they most likely end up making less instead as their products get completely passed by by the greater majority of consumers who would much prefer copy permissions allowed products. They are also paranoid about getting their products replicated if they make it too easy for peeps to tamper with them allowing for back ups. The ratio on the marketplace of copy products to transfer products is now at 2.5 to 1, and copy/mod is now also 2.5 times as frequent as transfer/mod. Just a year ago it was about a 2 to 1 ratio in both regards, so merchants are rapidly, (and begrudgingly for many of them), figuring out that for greater profitability purposes, you best sell your products with permissions that the consumers want which is by far copy allowed permissions. I wouldn't be surprised if the ratio is over 4 to 1 in favor of copy permissions in just 3 years time if the trend continues to give the consumers what they generally prefer. ;-)

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

From my post further up in this thread:

When I began a thread on General awhile back to get a feel for if people preferred copy/mod or mod/trans items, I specifically stated I was asking for the type of items I create.  Some people indicated they prefer different perms for home items vs wearable items. 

For clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc. most people who posted in that thread preferred copy/mod for clothing due to the ability to mix & match various clothing items to create different looks.  I'm in that category now as well for clothing since I put entire outfits, including hair, skin, accessories, together.

(Bolding added for emphasis)

Especially for outfits that I wear regularly, I create a folder for each outfit.  I include in the folder the shape, skin, hair, shoes, stockings (I usually wear dresses) and jewelry.  When I switch outfits, this organization allows me to simply "Replace Outfit" or "Add to Outfit" if I'm using the same skin/shape.

 

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You don't use the "outfits" function that i snow in the viewers?

I know that what you are doing was the old way of doing it before the "outfits" function.

It would reduce a huge amount of inventory clutter for you.

---

@Drake & Perrie - I don't think the viewer I use, because my PC won't run those viewers, uses the "Outfits" function.  If it does (pre-mesh Phoenix) then I've never used it but I have my own system down to a science that works for me and at approximately 8500 total inventory, I don't have inventory clutter.

 

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For a woman you must not have a lot of clothes. 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

From my post further up in this thread:

When I began a thread on General awhile back to get a feel for if people preferred copy/mod or mod/trans items, I specifically stated I was asking for the type of items I create.  Some people indicated they prefer different perms for home items vs wearable items. 

For clothing, shoes, jewelry, etc. most people who posted in that thread preferred copy/mod for clothing due to the ability to mix & match various clothing items to create different looks.  I'm in that category now as well for clothing since I put entire outfits, including hair, skin, accessories, together.

(Bolding added for emphasis)

Especially for outfits that I wear regularly, I create a folder for each outfit.  I include in the folder the shape, skin, hair, shoes, stockings (I usually wear dresses) and jewelry.  When I switch outfits, this organization allows me to simply "Replace Outfit" or "Add to Outfit" if I'm using the same skin/shape.

 

---

You don't use the "outfits" function that i snow in the viewers?

I know that what you are doing was the old way of doing it before the "outfits" function.

It would reduce a huge amount of inventory clutter for you.

---

@Drake & Perrie - I don't think the viewer I use, because my PC won't run those viewers, uses the "Outfits" function.  If it does (pre-mesh Phoenix) then I've never used it but I have my own system down to a science that works for me and at approximately 8500 total inventory, I don't have inventory clutter.

 

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For a woman you must not have a lot of clothes. 

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Nope - I'm one of those rare women RL & SL who detests shopping.  I employ the "average male approach" of only shopping when I need something, go the the store that sells it, go directly to the item/department (no browsing elsewhere), buy it, leave. :smileyvery-happy:  My other philosophy in both worlds is to buy quality so it lasts longer - well, that's not applicable in SL as items don't wear out but I still enjoy quality here as well.

I'm also into minimalism (I think I mentioned that either in this thread or the similar one on General) - and am currently reading The 100 Things Challenge.  I'm looking forward to implementing some of the ideas from that book into my RL.

Sidenote: My mother is a shopaholic and cannot believe she birthed a non-shopping daughter...lol.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Where did you get those statistics concerning copy vs. mod?  If you are going to post things like that please post a link to back up your claim.  I'd be interested in seeing the report this data came from.

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Teagan Tobias wrote: but I was just wondering the motivation behind the trend to little or no information to sell a product.

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Sell more items... just like the underlying motivation behind no transfer goods. There's also the little goodie added of no returns with no transfer items. Double Merchant Score!

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Spica Inventor wrote:

You're right Teagan. Merchants who just produce transfer but no copy products are just being greedy, thinking they'll end up making more money from it somehow, but they most likely end up making less instead as their products get completely passed by by the greater majority of consumers who would much prefer copy permissions allowed products. They are also paranoid about getting their products replicated if they make it too easy for peeps to tamper with them allowing for back ups. The ratio on the marketplace of copy products to transfer products is now at 2.5 to 1, and copy/mod is now also 2.5 times as frequent as transfer/mod. Just a year ago it was about a 2 to 1 ratio in both regards, so merchants are rapidly, (and begrudgingly for many of them), figuring out that for greater profitability purposes, you best sell your products with permissions that the consumers want which is by far copy allowed permissions. I wouldn't be surprised if the ratio is over 4 to 1 in favor of copy permissions in just 3 years time if the trend continues to give the consumers what they generally prefer. ;-)

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I would also like to see some accredited documentation on your conclusions. IMO people who allow transfer (offer the possibility of resale/refund) would decrease revenue unlike no transfer/no refund. Your statement may be true in your circle of friends but not in mine.

Question...how many things do you buy in RL that you don't have the opportunity to return if you don't like them? Please, don't cop out with SL isn't RL in this instance, money is money.

 

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

If someone doesnt like an item i am selling i will refund them their money when they send it back to me. provided i have a transaction record. can't do that with copy items.

That is what the DEMO is for.

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Correction, that's what demo's are supposed to be for. Wearing hair some weird color with a box on top saying demo isn't what I was trying to buy.

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

If someone doesnt like an item i am selling i will refund them their money when they send it back to me. provided i have a transaction record.  can't do that with copy items.

No.. i will not put my items up for sale as copy items. I do not have to and you do not own SL. As you are not a merchant you have no idea how much work it would be to copy all of the items, re-perm them, send them to the MP and create new listings for them. Nevermind how much this would bulk up my inventory.

And that merchant is 100% correct, he CAN put them up as no copy and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. That is HIS right as a merchant. Whether or not you buy from any of us is your choice, but we do not have to kowtow to you.

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 Woohoo!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Spica Inventor wrote:

You're right Teagan. Merchants who just produce transfer but no copy products are just being greedy, thinking they'll end up making more money from it somehow, but they most likely end up making less instead as their products get completely passed by by the greater majority of consumers who would much prefer copy permissions allowed products. They are also paranoid about getting their products replicated if they make it too easy for peeps to tamper with them allowing for back ups. The ratio on the marketplace of copy products to transfer products is now at 2.5 to 1, and copy/mod is now also 2.5 times as frequent as transfer/mod. Just a year ago it was about a 2 to 1 ratio in both regards, so merchants are rapidly, (and begrudgingly for many of them), figuring out that for greater profitability purposes, you best sell your products with permissions that the consumers want which is by far copy allowed permissions. I wouldn't be surprised if the ratio is over 4 to 1 in favor of copy permissions in just 3 years time if the trend continues to give the consumers what they generally prefer. ;-)

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i did some testing on the MP...

2234763 total items on the MP

1571393 copy perms

  665734 trans perms

  865819 copy/mod perms

  181898 both copy and trans perms

  168590 all three perms

so you can see the bulk of items on the MP are copyable. It is far to early to do ratios for me..

Still doesn't make a merchant that doesn't sell copyable items greedy.

[Teagan Tobias]

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Suspiria Finucane wrote:

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Teagan Tobias wrote:

If someone doesnt like an item i am selling i will refund them their money when they send it back to me. provided i have a transaction record. can't do that with copy items.

That is what the DEMO is for.

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Correction, that's what demo's are supposed to be for. Wearing hair some weird color with a box on top saying demo isn't what I was trying to buy.

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I was quoting Drake1, my part is the last line about the DEMO.  And I agree, its hard to tell what some things look like with the colors and attachments in the way.